Amtrak dining and cafe service

[user 14106]

Had my first ever flex dinner last night. Acceptable but not that good. Breakfast this morning was horrible. How do you mess up pancakes. They tasted really bad. Wife said the omelette was also horrible.

Last nights butter cake was the highlight.

I recently had the flex omelette and flex pancakes and mine were ok. I’m guessing the result is highly preparation dependent - it’s probably easy to overdo both items. I don’t really find the quality much off if at all from what’s served on Acela first though the plating and presentation on Acela makes it look much more appealing. I have found even on Acela first though that premade omelettes can be wrecked if not heated properly. I have experienced the flex omelette overdone and dry on past trips and have also experienced this on Acela first.

 

[niemi24s]

Suspect the secret (?) to preparing a flex meal is the preheating (to thaw and get warm) the meals before anybody shows up and then give them a final full-temperature heating when they're ordered.

That's how Karen described how she prepared our Chicken Ala Rosa, pancakes and omelet on the LSL about six weeks ago.

We thought they were very good!

 

[joelkfla]

How do you mess up pancakes.

Easy: make them in a factory, freeze them, and heat them in an oven nearly to the point of combustion.

 

[zetharion]

Easy: make them in a factory, freeze them, and heat them in an oven nearly to the point of combustion.

Never a more perfect description of Amtraks Flex pancakes.

 

[niemi24s]

Never a more perfect description of Amtraks Flex pancakes.

Except those Karen fixed for me on the LSL.

Just because pancakes on the TE are awful, please don't assume all are that way.

 

[zephyr17]

Except those Karen fixed for me on the LSL.

Just because pancakes on the TE are awful, please don't assume all are that way.

Lack of sandardization and level of care of Flex meal preparation, yet another example of Amtrak's wildly varying onboard service.

The variance really is crew member to crew member, not train to train. The quality of pancakes really shouldn't be a crapshoot. You kind of have to accept that there is a very good possibility they will be "awful" so that assumption actually is quite reasonable. And a very poor reflection on Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I recently had the flex omelette and flex pancakes and mine were ok. I’m guessing the result is highly preparation dependent - it’s probably easy to overdo both items.

I would say it's cost dependent. You can say Pop-Tarts are perfectly acceptable when you're busy finishing a project at work and they cost $2 from a vending machine. What excuse does Amtrak have when they're charging a thousand times that amount to transport you in a stained fiberglass cubby from the 1970's? Please explain how this is not absurd to anyone who possesses an ounce of self-respect.

 

[Willbridge]

Lack of standardization and level of care of Flex meal preparation, yet another example of Amtrak's wildly varying onboard service.

The variance really is crew member to crew member, not train to train. The quality of pancakes really shouldn't be a crapshoot. You kind of have to accept that there is a very good possibility they will be "awful" so that assumption actually is quite reasonable. And a very poor reflection on Amtrak.

General Instructions
Each steward and chef is required to have a copy of this booklet and to familiarize himself with the instruction herein. Any other car employees desiring a copy of this booklet, however, may obtain same by signing Form D.C. 69A, authorizing deduction from their wages.
Each steward is also required to have a copy of Book of Instructions for Employees on Dining and Cafe Cars.
Stewards will be held responsible for seeing that members of their crew are properly instructed and live up to instructions.

Kitchen Service
To have uniform service on all the company's lines it is necessary for every chef to strictly adhere to the following instructions relating to standard service:
The instructions herein are general in their character and will, therefore, by no means restrict the chef or hamper him in displaying his abilities. It is most essential that every cook should have the interests of the service at heart and exert himself to the utmost to earn the reputation of only doing first-class work with the exercise of reasonable economy.
Careless and indifferent work will not be tolerated.

From: Canadian Pacific Railway; Dining Car Service; Montreal; 1920.

In relating this century-old instruction manual to the current situation it might be easy to blame differences in technology, union power and labor laws, different generation, etc. Perhaps, however, the leadership at CPR believed in what they were doing and set an example for employees to follow. Try relating that to a narrow interest board and contemporary senior leadership.

Embedded proudly in the pavement outside of the 1912 CPR city ticket office in Portland, Oregon.

 

[stevie]

Are Amtrak passengers not satisfied with the current traditional dining?

I am satisfied and looking forward to my trip in a few weeks. Almost all the experiences I've had on the CS and CZ (10+ years) have had excellent food and service, and a great opportunity to meet fellow passengers.

 

[Brian Battuello]

As a skeptic and curmudgeon, I sincerely wish you the best, and hope your trip matches or exceeds my best trips. And bless you for looking forward to sharing a table!

 

[user 14106]

I would say it's cost dependent. You can say Pop-Tarts are perfectly acceptable when you're busy finishing a project at work and they cost $2 from a vending machine. What excuse does Amtrak have when they're charging a thousand times that amount to transport you in a stained fiberglass cubby from the 1970's? Please explain how this is not absurd to anyone who possesses an ounce of self-respect.

It’s not awful when prepared properly on a shorter trip like the lake shore or on Acela first. However I don’t think I’m in disagreement that it could be a lot better for the cost. I was really just making the point that it’s easy to mess it up if it’s not heated right. My most recent trip involved both Silvers (one in one way the other train in the opposite direction) and obviously the traditional meals on the Star were far superior. Unless you’re in a superliner 1 car (which I wasn’t in any of the trips I was referring to) you’re not in a “stained fiberglass cubby from the 1970s.”

 

[zephyr17]

It’s not awful when prepared properly on a shorter trip like the lake shore or on Acela first. However I don’t think I’m in disagreement that it could be a lot better for the cost. I was really just making the point that it’s easy to mess it up if it’s not heated right. My most recent trip involved both Silvers (one in one way the other train in the opposite direction) and obviously the traditional meals on the Star were far superior. Unless you’re in a superliner 1 car (which I wasn’t in any of the trips I was referring to) you’re not in a “stained fiberglass cubby from the 1970s.”

1. Many Amtrak crew members do not take the trouble to reheat Flex mealsl properly. The result is Flex meals do deserve their reputation overall.
2. Superliner Is were never fiberglass cubbies. They were cubbies with carpet on the walls, now they're cubbies with faux wood. Superliner IIs still have carpet on the walls, but still aren't fiberglass. Viewliner Is come closest to being "fiberglass cubbies" albeit from the 1990s, not 1970s.

 

[user 14106]

1. Many Amtrak crew members do not take the trouble to reheat Flex mealsl properly. The result is Flex meals do deserve their reputation overall.

Seems like the result is better when they’re prepped in instances where there’s a separate car and dedicated attendant. But if they’re going to go through the effort to do that might as well have a chef and prepare real meals. At the end of the day I think there will be a day in the next couple fiscal years where flex dining will be in the rear view mirror - by Amtrak’s own admission they don’t appear to save as much money as they anticipated as the food costs are higher per passenger and can overcome the labor savings on longer trips for an unpopular meal format.

 

[jis]

Seems like the result is better when they’re prepped in instances where there’s a separate car and dedicated attendant. But if they’re going to go through the effort to do that might as well have a chef and prepare real meals. At the end of the day I think there will be a day in the next couple fiscal years where flex dining will be in the rear view mirror.

At least they have moved the needed Diners for the Crescent from Mothballs to Maintenance Backlog from what I hear from folks at RPA. Still the Cardinal is sitting out in the cold though, not to mention the Eaglette and CONO, but those appear to be more of just a staffing issue at present.

 

[Qapla]

Here is a video that was posted only a couple days ago. They are on the Silver Star from NYC to Orlando, and they commented on having traditional dining back on the Star - they did say that it is not on the Meteor - yet.
They show their dinner around the 26:00 mark

 

[poncho]

It's a little different than what it was before. Amtrak charges a flat rate for meals now. The prices do not differ depending on which entree you get, rather which meal service you attend.

$20 for breakfast (includes entree)
$25 for lunch (includes entree + desert)
$45 for dinner (includes app. + bread + entree + desert + 1 alcoholic bev).

All means also include unlimited nonalcoholic beverages.

I wouldn't say it's 'astronomical' but I guess that depends on who you ask.

Wow that's actually not bad at all. I remember in 2019 paying $40 for just the signature steak in the dining car and thinking it would be so much more now. IMO for a three course meal including steak and an alcoholic beverage that's surprisingly good. Amtrak also does make a very good steak.

 

[zephyr17]

Still the Cardinal is sitting out in the cold, though

Well, the Card never had full dining, even before the introduction of Flex. It was running an Amcafe with heated up meals, although my recollection is it was still better than Flex. I don't know whether or not it was slated to get a V II diner before Anderson came onboard and decided his mission was to gut long distance services.

 

[jis]

Well, the Card never had full dining, even before the introduction of Flex. It was running an Amcafe with heated up meals, although my recollection is it was still better than Flex. I don't know whether or not it was slated to get a V II diner before Anderson came onboard and decided his mission was to gut long distance services.

AFAIK before 1995 the Cardinal when it ran, always had a Diner and a Lounge ever since it was created out of the ashes of the James Whitcomb Riley.

Cardinal had full Diner Service and SSL when it was a Superliner train between Washington DC and Chicago, roughly 1995 to 2002.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19980517n&item=0029
Then when it was converted to single level and extended to New York, with Viewliner Sleeper in 2002, it still had both Diner and Lounge service.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20030428n&item=0029
I had traveled in both incarnations.

I am not sure exactly when it lost the Diner and had the Dining service merged into the Amfleet II lounge to become the current state of affairs. Must have happened as the old Heritage Diners started biting the dust one by one.

 

[zephyr17]

Cardinal had full Diner Service and SSL when it was a Superliner train between Washington DC and Chicago, roughly 1995 to 2002.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19980517n&item=0029
Then when it was converted to single level and extended to New York, with Viewliner Sleeper in 2002, it still had both Diner and Lounge service.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20030428n&item=0029
I had traveled in both incarnations.

I am not sure exactly when it lost the Diner. Must have happened as the old Heritage Diners started biting the dust one by one.

I know that when I rode several times in the early 2010s it had an Amcafe. Also when I rode it in like 1997 it had no diner, but a limited menu was served to sleeping car passengers in the lower level of the Sightseer, complete with tableclothes. It was quite a nice service, considering there was no galley. Perhaps the timetables just reflected that there was dining service and was silent as to the equipment it was provided in. Dining service provided in the lower level of a Sightseer was unique to the Cardinal at the time.

I believe you that at times it may have had full dining, but it never did when I rode it.

 

[jis]

I know that when I rode several times in the early 2010s it had an Amcafe. Also when I rode it in like 1997 it had no diner, but a limited menu was served to sleeping car passengers in the lower level of the Sightseer, complete with tableclothes.

I believe you that at times it may have had full dining, but it never did when I rode it.

The point is that is not "never had full Dining Service" as you stated before. I was merely removing the possibility of misunderstanding.

The 25 number that was used for Diners, and originally Bag-Dorms, and incidentally before that Amfleet II Lounges, is exactly the number that is needed (in service plus PM/BO/Protect) to have one in each of the single level trains including the Cardinal. After the current changes made to status of Diners to restore them to the Crescent there still are enough in Mothballs to equip the Card with a Diner. They were ordered with that intention. Of course what they will do is a different matter.

 

[OBS]

Well, the Card never had full dining, even before the introduction of Flex. It was running an Amcafe with heated up meals, although my recollection is it was still better than Flex. I don't know whether or not it was slated to get a V II diner before Anderson came onboard and decided his mission was to gut long distance services.

Totally false. The Cardinal had a full service diner for many, many years, both with single level and Superliner equipment. Edited to add, I see Jis beat me to it. It did switch to Lounge car when the Heritage Diners were dropping like flies.

 

[zephyr17]

25 number that was used for Diners, and originally Bag-Dorms, and incidentally before that Amfleet II Lounges, is exactly the number that is needed (in service plus PM/BO/Protect) to have one in each of the single level trains including the Cardinal

I wasn't sure about the the size of the order or the intentions, thanks for clarifying. Too bad Anderson derailed it before it was fully implemented.

 

[zephyr17]

Totally false. The Cardinal had a full service diner for many, many years, both with single level and Superliner equipment. Edited to add, I see Jis beat me to it. It did switch to Lounge car when the Heritage Diners were dropping like flies.

I accept it had diners at various points in time, but do want to again point out that a nice dining service with a limited menu was provided in the lower level of Sightseer in around 1997, not in a diner.

I admit that every time I rode it, with both Superliner and single level equipment it never had a dining car, and I made a bad assumption based on that.

 

[Qapla]

Here is the Silver Star Dining Menu

 

[jis]

I accept it had diners at various points in time, but do want to again point out that a nice dining service with a limited menu was provided in the lower level of Sightseer in around 1997, not in a diner.

I admit that every time I rode it, with both Superliner and single level equipment it never had a dining car, and I made a bad assumption based on that.

Again, in order to remove misunderstandings, in 1997, there was indeed a period when "Tray Meals" were served in the Sightseer Lounge and there was no Diner.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19970511n&item=0027
So you do remember right for the '97 trip.

But the Diner was back in '99. Life is complicated at Amtrak