I think I occasionally saw that in Wisconsin supermarkets when I was growing up; never tried it, though. (Of course, the HQ for Frank's Sauerkraut is in Sturtevant, WI, not too far from the Amtrak station there.)
Amtrak dining and cafe service
- Thread starter Railspike
- Start date
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
As a Senior Citizen who actually got to ride some of the Crack Trains and eat in Cafes and Diners with those prices( of course not often since I grew up in a poor family), I have to think that Labor Costs were the Major Factor in Prices being so Low for most prepared Food.Actually, according to my inflation calculator, 60 cents (the price of the full dinner) in 1941 is equivalent to $12.42 in today's money. That's pretty impressive, because you'd be hard-pressed to find a dinner for $12-$13 today even off the rails. (By the way, the quoted one-way coach fare CHI - LA of $39.50 is equivalent to $811 in today's money, the "Tourist Pullman" fare of $49.50 is equivalent to $1,016 in 2023 dollars. )
It's hard to compare exactly what these price differences mean. What did a full dinner cost in a mass-market restaurant in 1941? What were median and average salaries/wages like back then?
Well, here's an example from the era:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/79/58/a77958ccf61664be94fd9970a3626986.jpg
Looks like entrees were in the 40-60 cent range, a full dinner could be easily a dollar. Steaks were about 90 cents. A dollar back in 1941 was the equivalent of 20 dollars today, so, in general, I think perhaps restaurant meals were cheaper back in the 1940s than they are today. By the way, if one can get a time machine, please go back and visit the Warner Bors. Studio Cafe and order some Sauerkraut Juice for 15 cents and tell me what it's like. I guess peoples' taste has changed over the years.
It's possible the Warner Bros. Studio Cafe had subsidized prices for studio employees. Here's a menu from the famous Brown Derby Restuarant from 1941:
https://i0.wp.com/www.martinturnbul...017/01/Brown-Derby-menu-19.jpg?resize=640,422
Full meal prices were closer to $2 (or $40 in today's money.) A porterhouse steak was $3, or $60.
So the Amtrak prices don't seem out of whack with restaurant meals -- what's more interesting is how Fred Harvey managed to serve a full meal for 60 cents (or $12). Of course, there were only 2 dinner entrees, fish and chicken.
Remember, Candy,Gum,Ice Cream Sodas etc (and even Beer)were very Cheap compared to today's Prices , yet Companies that produced them ( @ Wholesale Prices) made Millions.
Airline Fares, which were Regulated, were much Higher than today's, and as you pointed out, Coach Fares on Trains were considerably Higher in today's Dollars.
Also, Automobiles and Trucks, and operating Expenses, were more affordable except for Gasoline ( Diesel was much cheaper) which in today's Dollars were comparable.
Lastly, Clothing was much more affordable then, and Housing Costs were a bargain up to the 1970s!
In fairness to Amtrak, compare the cost today of going out to a halfway decent place for dinner. Your glass of wine will probably average about $11.00, a three-course special meal about $35, coffee extra. Ok, I do not think the Dining Car pricing is out of line with the inflation that has taken place since Covid-19 started. An alternative is not to include meals and do pay as you go. Lastly, have you brought that "snack" that the airlines serve in coach recently? Yuck.
Used to block Congreess Avenue here in Austin( then the Dallas/ San Antonio Highway!!!) every afternoon around 3PM when the Station was @ 3rd and Brazos Sts.
Some of the old Cars are now used as offices in San Marcos, you can see them alongside the Tracks on the Northeast Side of Town (when its Daylight) as the Eaglette chugs down the Tracks!
Economics nerd here, and you piqued my curiosity. There are hundreds of inflation indexes for different categories of spending, but on a lark I compared three: overall inflation (the "headline" CPI), food at home, and food away from home. The last includes restaurant meals from fine dining to fast food and everything in between. The series only goes back to 1953 so I couldn't, unlike your post, go back to WWII or the Harvey House era, but still.
In brief, cost of food prepared at home has grown slower than overall consumer prices, food away from home considerably faster. Statistically, food at home that cost $1 in 1953 cost $9.52 in 2022; food away from home, $15.36; and an "average dollar," $10.93. This isn't my expertise but I assume that food away from home is ballooned by labor costs and by commercial real-estate costs and that actual, y'know, ingredients are only a fraction.
Having a family member who worked until recently at a restaurant, my impression is that labor costs are not the big problem. At least not at the inadequate wages they were paying my family member. Also, many fewer workers are needed for food service than in earlier years, as much of the food items on the menu are now prefabricated in factories. I suspect that the big deal is commercial real estate costs, plus consolidation of the larger food service chains, which allows them to raise prices without as much competition.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
Amtrak Dining Car staff cost considerably more than Pullman staff from the 1940's. Obviously they are paid much better but they also get insurance, quality lodging at terminals, transportation to the lodging at terminals, and a private room on the train. All of this costs amtrak a considerable amount of moeny which is why as a business Amtrak needs to find the perfect balance where they are using a small staff to provide a satisfactory dining car experience.
I personally think the Western trains tradiitonal dining is about at that perfect balance point now.
fillyjonk
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
- Messages
- 607
See, if they wanted that for the flex meals on the Eastern leg of the Eagle, my response would be "LOL NO"
I know I'm a cheapskate and I rarely eat restaurant meals but for $45 I'd want something not just reheated. Also I don't drink alcohol so the "free alcoholic beverage bit" doesn't do anything for me.
IDK, I can get a good dinner at the local family-run bbq joint for about $20-25 with two sides of my choice (and sometimes two meats), or I can get an Italian dinner with a small salad and garlic rolls at another local place for $15-20.
Last edited:
I think it's only open to coach on the trains with traditional dining.
fillyjonk
OBS Chief
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
- Messages
- 607
Yeah - I'd be more willing to pay $45 for a steak cooked to order, salad, vegetable, and roll. I'd pay extra for a beverage and a dessert if I wanted it. But not for a bowl of beefaroni.
Where are you located? Small town? Big City? Eating out is cheaper in small towns and rural areas in general. Again, I suspect the main culprit for expensive big-city food are the high commercial real estate prices.
danasgoodstuff
OBS Chief
Railroads used to brag about how many people they had to serve you on the train, they were major employers. Times change.
And one of the big factors in passenger train offs was high labor costs in the face of declining patronage and revenue.
Some railroads considered it important to maintain their image and reputation and swallowed the loses, like UP and Santa Fe. Others replaced diners with a car full of vending machines, like SP.
Sauerkraut juice. I actually do drink this on a regular basis from a jar also containing the sauerkraut itself. It helps alleviate GERD symptoms. The taste is indeed sour, but rather refreshing.By the way, if one can get a time machine, please go back and visit the Warner Bors. Studio Cafe and order some Sauerkraut Juice for 15 cents and tell me what it's like. I guess peoples' taste has changed over the years.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2023
- Messages
- 13
The consumer price index is for a basket of goods. The inflation rate for restaurant meals is most likely different.
Great photo, danasgoodstuff! I can *almost* name every position, although there are some at the far end I'm not sure about.
danasgoodstuff
OBS Chief
I assume that's kitchen crew in white in the middle.
crescent-zephyr
Engineer
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2015
- Messages
- 4,796
Yes, 4 chefs, 6 servers, and 1 steward most likely. That's WAY over-staffed by today's standards of course.
Back then, they used to prepare most items from “scratch”. Recall the Southern Railway ads where they bragged about how they baked muffins on board, etc.
The waiters between meals would be sitting at the tables, folding napkins and polishing the silverware… no stainless then. The fourth cook would be washing the dishes, glasses, cups, silverware, pots, and pans, etc. Very little disposable then.
Don't forget the flowers...
But suffice to say - neither of those fine establishments are offering a large window seat as you cruise accross America...
printman2000
Engineer
Had my first ever flex dinner last night. Acceptable but not that good. Breakfast this morning was horrible. How do you mess up pancakes. They tasted really bad. Wife said the omelette was also horrible.
Last nights butter cake was the highlight.
Last nights butter cake was the highlight.
I'll guess that the flex meals on the Eastern routes won't be changed anytime soon. We think that they are not good but if its a matter of keeping the cost low; there should be many other choices that are more palatable as what we see on first class air. I'd be very happy to have a pre-prepared lamb Gyro platter, Falafel platter, Veal Francaise, Mushroom ravioli, Lasagna or even a plain hot open Turkey sandwich w gravy and vegetable. For the high prices we pay in sleeper class, the rail passenger deserves better.
- Status
