Amtrak East Coast single level consist possibilities

[ctim2]

Given the size and consist of the late '70s and '80s eastern Amtrak trains, Silver Service, Crescent, Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, etc., with an appropriate or unlimited availability of passenger cars and types, why would those trains look like today? That is to say, how many cars, what types, and how utilized? Your thoughts?

An example of what I mean is the Crescent of the late 1980s, which appeared to have good car utilization, including sleeper and coach pickup and drop-off in Atlanta, which reflected and accommodated its higher traffic and demand to and from Atlanta north.

 

[John Bredin]

At a minimum, the (FRA, I think) workshops & planning on new long-distance routes should be complete before Amtrak orders new LD fleets, single-level or bi-level.

Ideally, Congress should adopt a dedicated revenue source for Amtrak capital investments so multi-year planning can be done with confidence.

My belief is that Amtrak upper management is neither anti-(passenger, LD, non-NEC, whatever) nor particularly incompetent but skittish, and IMHO understandably so. Even when the President supports Amtrak and Congress votes Amtrak reasonable funding, a few years and a new election can change that tune to the old Profit!-and-Waste! Rag. Ambitious equipment orders having to be pared back for lack of funds is not unknown in Amtrak history.

Either way, Amtrak has to know (1) how many routes, trains (will some routes have 2 or even 3 services a day?) and thus trainsets it will be operating, and (2) how much firm, no-backsies, funding it has for new equipment, before it can make a firm contract for an appropriate number of cars/trainsets.

 

[west point]

The Silvers and Palmetto would all originate at MIA. They would be 18 cars -= 2 diners, lounge,^ bag. The 14 revenue cars would split coach / sleeper between even to a 9 and 5 mix.. At WAS or PHL 4 cars will be removed to allow a 14 car fit at NYP. The Crescent would arrive northbound at ATL with about 7 cars and have the same layout as the Silvers northbound to WAS with 4 removed at WAS.

The only problem would be the present ATL station as the platform is way too short for 18 cars. However, maybe most passengers boarded before on the additional cars before inbound arrival and stick them on the front of #20.

BTW Palmetto probably would only have one diner serving 24/7.

 

[railiner]

At WASH or PHL 4 cars will be removed to allow a 14 car fit at NYP.

They used to run 18 car Silver trains to New York. Have they shortened some platforms?

 

[west point]

This single level sleeper situation is just nuts. Of 75 V- sleepers 60 should be always available. 4 for LSL and 3 for Crescent, Meteor, Floridian, + 2 for each Cardinal and 2 more if Cardinal ever becomes daily operational that would mean 57 in operation with 3 spares. It is time for cut off sleepers at WAS and ATL. The price of sleeper space being what it is paying for the cut off operation is a winner.

 

[Steve4031]

The traditional leg rest coach had 48 seats, IIRC. The Amfleet II long-distance coaches have at least 60 seats and are longer than the heritage fleet cars. The heritage sleepers were most 10 roomettes 6 bedrooms versus a viewliner that has 12 roomettes, 2 bedrooms and one handicapped room. I think the conversion to longer with greater seating capacities somewhat shortened the consists. The significant change has been the reduction in sleeping car space. I am sure those 18-car trains had a couple of more sleeping cars. There were probably more non-revenue cars, such as a snack car for coach passengers and a lounge car on the rear.

 

[railiner]

The traditional leg rest coach had 48 seats, IIRC. The Amfleet II long-distance coaches have at least 60 seats and are longer than the heritage fleet cars. The heritage sleepers were most 10 roomettes 6 bedrooms versus a viewliner that has 12 roomettes, 2 bedrooms and one handicapped room. I think the conversion to longer with greater seating capacities somewhat shortened the consists. The significant change has been the reduction in sleeping car space. I am sure those 18-car trains had a couple of more sleeping cars. There were probably more non-revenue cars, such as a snack car for coach passengers and a lounge car on the rear.

Almost all postwar Heritage sleepers and coaches are the same 85 feet in length, as the newer Amtrak cars are.
Amfleet II coaches have 59 seats, IIRC. Heritage long-distance coaches with full leg-rests had anywhere from 40 to 48 seats.

Most Heritage First Class sleepers contained about 22 total berths, but budget Slumbercoaches had as many as 40 total berths.

 

[zephyr17]

The traditional leg rest coach had 48 seats, IIRC. The Amfleet II long-distance coaches have at least 60 seats and are longer than the heritage fleet cars. The heritage sleepers were most 10 roomettes 6 bedrooms versus a viewliner that has 12 roomettes, 2 bedrooms and one handicapped room. I think the conversion to longer with greater seating capacities somewhat shortened the consists. The significant change has been the reduction in sleeping car space. I am sure those 18-car trains had a couple of more sleeping cars. There were probably more non-revenue cars, such as a snack car for coach passengers and a lounge car on the rear.

Almost all postwar Heritage sleepers and coaches are the same 85 feet in length, as the newer Amtrak cars are.
Amfleet II coaches have 59 seats, IIRC. Heritage long-distance coaches with full leg-rests had anywhere from 40 to 48 seats.

Most Heritage First Class sleepers contained about 22 total berths, but budget Slumbercoaches had as many as 40 total berths.

As to coaches, remember that the heritage long distance coaches had large "lounges"/restrooms at both ends of the car that I think took up considerably more space than today's much less generous restrooms.

 

[Steve4031]

As to coaches, remember that the heritage long distance coaches had large "lounges"/restrooms at both ends of the car that I think took up considerably more space than today's much less generous restrooms.

I do remember those lounges. The doglegs to get around them made the seating area smaller, and that caused me to think those cars were smaller. IMHO, those cars were the golden age of coach travel.

 

[railiner]

I do remember those lounges. The doglegs to get around them made the seating area smaller, and that caused me to think those cars were smaller. IMHO, those cars were the golden age of coach travel.

Indeed! Many featured those supremely comfortable Heywood-Wakefield “Sleepy Hollow” reclining seats. Good window shades or in some cases venetian blinds and curtains. Many offered pillows, sometimes for a fee.

 

[Steve4031]

I wish those Heywood-Wakefield Sleepy Hollow reclining seats would return. I had many good nights' sleep in those. The seats on the Amfleets and Superliners do not offer the same comfort. Support in various areas is missing.

 

[railiner]

I just had my first ride in a Venture seat, from Chicago to Milwaukee on the 20th.

I’d take an Amfleet or Horizon seat anytime over the Venture. Even on an hour and a half ride, I found them narrow and uncomfortable. I disliked the recline mechanism as well.