Amtrak FY22 Grant Request

[Devil's Advocate]

If Amtrak goes with a single-level LD fleet as expected then I think the next generation of sleepers should be a mixture of all Bedroom and all Roomette +ADA room cars.

Expected by who? Single level equipment will reduce capacity, increase cost per seat, and add more stops. I do not support that and if the clumsy ADA sledgehammer kills off dual level equipment then that is extremely unfortunate.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Nope, this wouldnt work,not enough Headroom and No Windows in the Coffins!

I'd like to see some of the Sleepers be turned into All Bedroom Cars like the Auto Train has for the 2 Night LD Trains( more Revenue), and the Sightseer Lounges refurbished and remodeled since they plan on keeping them off three of the LD Trains( CONO,TE,CAP)when Daily Service Returns!

Superliners are poorly designed... please don't get mad at me for saying that... just try getting luggage up those narrow winding stairwells. And the temperature controls do not work... it's either too hot or too cold. The H room at the end of the corridors of toilets is smelly and disgusting if not attended to... and when folks don't close the doors after use, the slam back and forth all night long unless the H traveler goes out and shuts them. Rooms on the lower level tend to overheat.

Superliners need immediate refurbishment to meet basic needs of travelers who are paying a premium to travel in them.

Double decker passenger cars in other parts of the world are built so much better and with greater ease of use and comfort for the passengers. Why does rail car design in the USA lag so far behind???

BTW are they taking the sightseer lounge off the Texas Eagle? That's a three night and three day trip... longest in the system. What gives with Amtrak???

 

[jis]

BTW are they taking the sightseer lounge off the Texas Eagle? That's a three night and three day trip... longest in the system. What gives with Amtrak???

If they take the Sightseer off that will only affect 21/22 between Chicago and San Antonio. The Los Angeles section which attaches to the Sunset Limited at San Antonio gets to use the Sightseer Lounge of the Sunset Limited west of San Antonio. So one loses it only for a night and a day and a bit not three nights and three days.

Of course it would be better if the Sightseer Lounge was not taken off the single night journey trains. But as I have been alluding to elsewhere, so far Amtrak's intentions of making long distance journeys as unpleasant as they can get away with seems to be the strategy of the day while management talks out of both sides of their mouths.

 

[Cal]

Superliners are poorly designed... please don't get mad at me for saying that... just try getting luggage up those narrow winding stairwells. And the temperature controls do not work... it's either too hot or too cold. The H room at the end of the corridors of toilets is smelly and disgusting if not attended to... and when folks don't close the doors after use, the slam back and forth all night long unless the H traveler goes out and shuts them. Rooms on the lower level tend to overheat.

Some of these are the age of the equipment. I love the Superliners, I want to see a big interior refresh to match the VII's and make them more modernized.

 

[JermyZP]

Do you think that if the grant get approved that they would bring back old services like morning coffee & juice to sleepers and a bar attendant at the bar in sightseer lounge?

 

[20th Century Rider]

If they take the Sightseer off that will only affect 21/22 between Chicago and San Antonio. The Los Angeles section which attaches to the Sunset Limited at San Antonio gets to use the Sightseer Lounge of the Sunset Limited west of San Antonio. So one loses it only for a night and a day and a bit not three nights and three days.

Of course it would be better if the Sightseer Lounge was not taken off the single night journey trains. But as I have been alluding to elsewhere, so far Amtrak's intentions of making long distance journeys as unpleasant as they can get away with seems to be the strategy of the day while management talks out of both sides of their mouths.

At least you can't fault Amtrak on the one thing they do so well... consistent regression of services... there seems to be no direction goal as to what they want to do. Nor do they care... as they 'talk out of both sides of their mouths."

All that said... what's the deal with the restaurant cars... will it be like the EB split in SPK... SL has the lounge car and sleeper pax get some kind of a flex meal?

 

[jis]

I have no idea. Maybe @Bob Dylan or @Devil's Advocate know, since it all happens in their neck of the woods.

 

[cocojacoby]

How would they insert modules for the lower floor through the ends? There is no clear path from the ends to the lower floor.

Funny you should ask that. I used to wonder just the opposite . . . how do they get the bedroom modules up to the upper floor through the plug door on the lower floor

I do believe you are right that a module is not necessarily one piece but a few interlocking pieces and they can be designed to pass through whatever opening they need to go through. The lower floor has plenty of access with two side doors and the big plug of course.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Funny you should ask that. I used to wonder just the opposite . . . how do they get the bedroom modules up to the upper floor through the plug door on the lower floor

I do believe you are right that a module is not necessarily one piece but a few interlocking pieces and they can be designed to pass through whatever opening they need to go through. The lower floor has plenty of access with two side doors and the big plug of course.

You may find this interesting regarding the construction of the Superliner...

http://www.trainweb.org/andy/Pages_Illustrations/blueprints.html

 

[Cal]

Do you think that if the grant get approved that they would bring back old services like morning coffee & juice to sleepers and a bar attendant at the bar in sightseer lounge?

Well the morning coffee and juice (If you are talking about the little station) only stopped for COVID.

Bar attendant in the SSL is much further off

 

[Cal]

All that said... what's the deal with the restaurant cars... will it be like the EB split in SPK... SL has the lounge car and sleeper pax get some kind of a flex meal?

Are we talking about the TE/SL? Because it doesn't matter if the SSL is there or not, there is always a diner on each train. The TE passengers north of SAS use the CCC. West of SAS they use the Sunset Diner

 

[cocojacoby]

You may find this interesting regarding the construction of the Superliner...

http://www.trainweb.org/andy/Pages_Illustrations/blueprints.html

Thanks!

Nice car illustration but really no mention of "How They're Made". I thought this was going to be a detailed report on how the modules are assembled and installed. Did I miss something?

Also one correction. The accessible room does not have a private shower.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Thanks!

Nice car illustration but really no mention of "How They're Made". I thought this was going to be a detailed report on how the modules are assembled and installed. Did I miss something?

Also one correction. The accessible room does not have a private shower.

True... the site doesn't seem to be technically accurate. The superliners were designed and around 40 years ago... one thing is for sure... they are outdated and need modernization / and or totally new replacements which are beyond the 5 year plan.

 

[me_little_me]

Superliners are poorly designed... please don't get mad at me for saying that... just try getting luggage up those narrow winding stairwells. And the temperature controls do not work... it's either too hot or too cold. The H room at the end of the corridors of toilets is smelly and disgusting if not attended to... and when folks don't close the doors after use, the slam back and forth all night long unless the H traveler goes out and shuts them. Rooms on the lower level tend to overheat.

Superliners need immediate refurbishment to meet basic needs of travelers who are paying a premium to travel in them.

Double decker passenger cars in other parts of the world are built so much better and with greater ease of use and comfort for the passengers. Why does rail car design in the USA lag so far behind???

BTW are they taking the sightseer lounge off the Texas Eagle? That's a three night and three day trip... longest in the system. What gives with Amtrak???

Most of what you mention are not really design issues - and remember, they were designed a long time ago.

They are maintenance issues:

The latches that hold the door closed should have been replaced years ago. They no longer hold because there is no spring in the metal anymore.

The temperature controls used to work. When they stopped working, they were never fixed - and never replaced with a more modern system.

The light bulbs and fixtures could have been replaced by a customized LED fixture that would provide more light using less electricity and lasting longer. They never were. I replaced all my old and fixtures both for efficiency and to modernize my home!

The heating issues and the smell issues are the result of failures to do any real maintenance. Amtrak would not spend the money because management didn't care. During COVID, they lost a good opportunity to do some real work on the idle equipment. Now, we taxpayers are asked to pay big bucks to finally repair our trains with no guarantee that Amtrak will keep them up in good condition. Reminds me of our local schools that don't get basic maintenance until the roofs leak so bad, it destroys the interior, then they ask for big money to replace the deteriorating ones. I don't know what Amtrak is thinking but I know that air conditioners, heaters, door latches, toilet seals, etc. don't last forever and I have replaced many of these on the homes I have lived in the past 50 years. The fuel and manpower they have wasted during those 50 years powering inefficient equipment and causing bad ordered cars to be replaced or emptied en route is just sinful.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Most of what you mention are not really design issues - and remember, they were designed a long time ago.

They are maintenance issues:

The latches that hold the door closed should have been replaced years ago. They no longer hold because there is no spring in the metal anymore.

The temperature controls used to work. When they stopped working, they were never fixed - and never replaced with a more modern system.

The light bulbs and fixtures could have been replaced by a customized LED fixture that would provide more light using less electricity and lasting longer. They never were. I replaced all my old and fixtures both for efficiency and to modernize my home!

The heating issues and the smell issues are the result of failures to do any real maintenance. Amtrak would not spend the money because management didn't care. During COVID, they lost a good opportunity to do some real work on the idle equipment. Now, we taxpayers are asked to pay big bucks to finally repair our trains with no guarantee that Amtrak will keep them up in good condition. Reminds me of our local schools that don't get basic maintenance until the roofs leak so bad, it destroys the interior, then they ask for big money to replace the deteriorating ones. I don't know what Amtrak is thinking but I know that air conditioners, heaters, door latches, toilet seals, etc. don't last forever and I have replaced many of these on the homes I have lived in the past 50 years. The fuel and manpower they have wasted during those 50 years powering inefficient equipment and causing bad ordered cars to be replaced or emptied en route is just sinful.

Agree with everything you said regarding a shameful lack of maintenance. But the narrow and winding stairwell makes for a struggle to get luggage up and down... and necessitates grasping the rail. As seen often. And the location of the H room at the end of a bank of bathrooms can be smelling and problematic with un shut doors swaying back and forth. Those are, in my opinion, design flaws... but am interested in your opinion because many really like that design.

 

[me_little_me]

Agree with everything you said regarding a shameful lack of maintenance. But the narrow and winding stairwell makes for a struggle to get luggage up and down... and necessitates grasping the rail. As seen often. And the location of the H room at the end of a bank of bathrooms can be smelling and problematic with un shut doors swaying back and forth. Those are, in my opinion, design flaws... but am interested in your opinion because many really like that design.

You are correct about the stairs. I have never liked them. That is, indeed, a design failure.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Are we talking about the TE/SL? Because it doesn't matter if the SSL is there or not, there is always a diner on each train. The TE passengers north of SAS use the CCC. West of SAS they use the Sunset Diner

You are correct Sir! The bad News is Coach Pasengers on the Texas Eagle wont be able to eat and drink in the Cafe end of the CCC( Diner/Lounge), theyll have to take their stuff back to their Seats.

And without a Sightseer Lounge, Sleeping Car Pssengers will be prisoners in their Room without a Lounge except for trips to the Diner to eat!

Its 31-32 Hours between Chicago and San Antonio, that's a Long way to have to stay in your Room or Seat since there is no Lounge!

 

[MARC Rider]

I very much would like for this to be the case. I am a huge fan of the Superliners, and knowing that a completely new car design and construction of bilevels is likely prohibitively expensive to Amtrak, it would be great if they can make a complete overhaul work. But, I am skeptical this can and will happen. Realistically railcars can't last forever, though VIA seems to be making a good faith effort with their Budd cars!

If they take the Sightseer off that will only affect 21/22 between Chicago and San Antonio. The Los Angeles section which attaches to the Sunset Limited at San Antonio gets to use the Sightseer Lounge of the Sunset Limited west of San Antonio. So one loses it only for a night and a day and a bit not three nights and three days.

Of course it would be better if the Sightseer Lounge was not taken off the single night journey trains. But as I have been alluding to elsewhere, so far Amtrak's intentions of making long distance journeys as unpleasant as they can get away with seems to be the strategy of the day while management talks out of both sides of their mouths.

What kind of money are they saving by not having a Sightseer lounge? they have the equipment already, and when they don't have them, they have cafe car service in the CCC car, so I cant figure how they save money by not having a sightseer lounge.

 

[20th Century Rider]

You are correct Sir! The bad News is Coach Pasengers on the Texas Eagle wont be able to eat and drink in the Cafe end of the CCC( Diner/Lounge), theyll have to take their stuff back to their Seats.

And without a Sightseer Lounge, Sleeping Car Pssengers will be prisoners in their Room without a Lounge except for trips to the Diner to eat!

Its 31-32 Hours between Chicago and San Antonio, that's a Long way to have to stay in your Room or Seat since their is no Lounge!

Thank you Jim for keeping these issues alive... Amtrak needs to do better!

 

[Bob Dylan]

What kind of money are they saving by not having a Sightseer lounge? they have the equipment already, and when they don't have them, they have cafe car service in the CCC car, so I cant figure how they save money by not having a sightseer lounge.

Yep, another "Consultant" idea no doubt!

 

[20th Century Rider]

So my friends, the reason for taking away the sightseer lounge is that their heads are in the clouds, and they can't see where they are going. That's exactly why they need that sightseer lounge!

 

[railiner]

You are correct about the stairs. I have never liked them. That is, indeed, a design failure.

What they need is sufficient room in the lower level luggage rack, so that only small overnight bags need to be carried up the stairs. Perhaps sacrificing one roomette can satisfy that need?

 

[Cal]

What they need is sufficient room in the lower level luggage rack, so that only small overnight bags need to be carried up the stairs. Perhaps sacrificing one roomette can satisfy that need?

I've never found a problem with the luggage rack. There has always been enough space

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Superliners are poorly designed... please don't get mad at me for saying that... just try getting luggage up those narrow winding stairwells. And the temperature controls do not work... it's either too hot or too cold. The H room at the end of the corridors of toilets is smelly and disgusting if not attended to... and when folks don't close the doors after use, the slam back and forth all night long unless the H traveler goes out and shuts them. Rooms on the lower level tend to overheat.

Superliners need immediate refurbishment to meet basic needs of travelers who are paying a premium to travel in them.

Double decker passenger cars in other parts of the world are built so much better and with greater ease of use and comfort for the passengers. Why does rail car design in the USA lag so far behind???

BTW are they taking the sightseer lounge off the Texas Eagle? That's a three night and three day trip... longest in the system. What gives with Amtrak???

I totally agree. The AC works poorly, temp controls are a joke. Many design flaws., New upholstery won't be adequate. A new fleet of better designed cars is needed. Amtrak should strike while the iron is hot because future Administrations are not likely to be so sympathetic. I see it as now or never.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I totally agree. The AC works poorly, temp controls are a joke. Many design flaws., New upholstery won't be adequate. A new fleet of beer designed cars is needed. Amtrak should strike while the iron is hot because future Administrations are not likely to be so sympathetic. I see it as now or never.

Exactly!