Amtrak FY22 Grant Request
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toddinde
OBS Chief
Also, a land cruise is not the job of a taxpayer subsidized railroad. If the Rocky Mountaineer people want to cater to that group, great, but Amtrak needs to focus on affordable, pleasant, reliable transportation for regular people. VIA is a disaster outside the corridors. That’s the last thing we need.
During the speech at Amtrak 50th anniversary event the current administration want to give 2/3 of 10 billion dollars every year to Amtrak. That around 6.5 billion and it should be more than enough for Amtrak to replace or fully rebuild the Superliners. The future of Amtrak looks bright.
Ziv
Conductor
We can hope, but remember that those sort of statements are negotiating ploys, not the probable final result. I have a hard time figuring out how much Amtrak spends on all of the different line items, but it seems like if they had a dedicated stream of funds even moderately in excess of what they have had for the past 10 years they would be able to expand frequency of the more popular routes slightly while having a steady purchase of new cars and possibly, locomotives. And it may be that even a MERE $5Bn per year would be sufficient. LOL!
But again, I am not that knowledgeable about how the funding has been broken out over the past 10 years. I think that Amtrak direct funding from the Fed budget peaked at $1.565Bn in 2010 and then dropped below $1.4Bn in 2016 but this doesn't account for ARRA funds or other funding sources. I believe that Amtrak's direct funding then went back up to almost $2.0Bn in 2019, but again, every time I look at the numbers there are different ways of including funding from different sources.
I think the main job this year and next is to ensure that the Gateway project is funded and completed, then concentrate on first renovating the worst off but usable cars while continuing to acquire more single level cars to expand service. It would be great to get more SLII type cars, but even if the LD routes get new single level cars it would still be nice to see the oldest SLI's get retired within 8 or 10 years. Maybe the Cap Limited should go single level as the oldest SL'ers get retired, I am not sure.
I agree that this is a time when Amtrak's future does seem to be looking as bright as it has in some time, despite the huge hit that Covid has put on their current numbers.
But again, I am not that knowledgeable about how the funding has been broken out over the past 10 years. I think that Amtrak direct funding from the Fed budget peaked at $1.565Bn in 2010 and then dropped below $1.4Bn in 2016 but this doesn't account for ARRA funds or other funding sources. I believe that Amtrak's direct funding then went back up to almost $2.0Bn in 2019, but again, every time I look at the numbers there are different ways of including funding from different sources.
I think the main job this year and next is to ensure that the Gateway project is funded and completed, then concentrate on first renovating the worst off but usable cars while continuing to acquire more single level cars to expand service. It would be great to get more SLII type cars, but even if the LD routes get new single level cars it would still be nice to see the oldest SLI's get retired within 8 or 10 years. Maybe the Cap Limited should go single level as the oldest SL'ers get retired, I am not sure.
I agree that this is a time when Amtrak's future does seem to be looking as bright as it has in some time, despite the huge hit that Covid has put on their current numbers.
Perhaps the taxpayers should not subsidize national parks, airports or essential air service. While we are at let's object to Maine taxpayers subsidizing I-5 construction in Southern California. For that matter, how much taxpayers' money supports the ports where sea cruises are launched and based? I don't know the latter, but I would not be surprised if it's more than the cruise lines pay to dock.
How so?
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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And so the beat goes on... 
IMHO, and just IMHO mind you
....
It would be inappropriate for Amtrak itself to spend money on running a high end luxury operation when it is not fulfilling its core mission of providing effective nationwide core service at reasonable prices. It could do so in a limited case if it can show that such activities are not taking away from their core mission and that such operations are significantly reducing their need for being funded to run their core operations.
The latter is hard to do when half of your expense account is based on after the fact cost allocation based on this or that dart board algorithm. One way to do so would be to spin off a subsidiary with separate accounts from Amtrak's core dart board account, with well documented and open cross charging for any services provided to this entity by Amtrak and vice versa which are fully auditable as is the case with real corporations.
All this should not preclude Amtrak from running reasonably priced Sleeper service in its core operations which basically came in with the core operations at its inception. Unfortunately Amtrak has proved itself to be not particularly competent in running even that as a growth industry. At best runs a sputtering along maintenance industry with episodic reductions in service over time, both in terms of routes and quality, in the net. The responsibility for such lies jointly at the feet of Amtrak management, Congress and the Executive Branch of the federal and to some extent various state governments. It should be noted that various state goernments run relatively giant passenger rail operations that could be characterized as suburban regional, quite independant of Amtrak too.
IMHO, and just IMHO mind you
....It would be inappropriate for Amtrak itself to spend money on running a high end luxury operation when it is not fulfilling its core mission of providing effective nationwide core service at reasonable prices. It could do so in a limited case if it can show that such activities are not taking away from their core mission and that such operations are significantly reducing their need for being funded to run their core operations.
The latter is hard to do when half of your expense account is based on after the fact cost allocation based on this or that dart board algorithm. One way to do so would be to spin off a subsidiary with separate accounts from Amtrak's core dart board account, with well documented and open cross charging for any services provided to this entity by Amtrak and vice versa which are fully auditable as is the case with real corporations.
All this should not preclude Amtrak from running reasonably priced Sleeper service in its core operations which basically came in with the core operations at its inception. Unfortunately Amtrak has proved itself to be not particularly competent in running even that as a growth industry. At best runs a sputtering along maintenance industry with episodic reductions in service over time, both in terms of routes and quality, in the net. The responsibility for such lies jointly at the feet of Amtrak management, Congress and the Executive Branch of the federal and to some extent various state governments. It should be noted that various state goernments run relatively giant passenger rail operations that could be characterized as suburban regional, quite independant of Amtrak too.
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How are these design flaws again? Surely they worked when they were brand new, I would think this is just poor maintence over the years.
The Superliners just need a major interior refresh and upgrade. Increasing the top speed would be good too. I don't think we necessarily need new cars for LD service.
Mailliw
OBS Chief
It's non-existent except as a tourist oriented service running 1-3 times a week plus a handful of essential service routes like the Winnipeg-Churchill train.
It might not be the most useful, but a disaster? I wouldn't call it that
jis
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A good article in Railway Age summarizing what the various major aspects are in the Grant request...
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/amtrak-spells-it-all-out-for-congress/
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/amtrak-spells-it-all-out-for-congress/
" In addition to the aforementioned funding for long-distance service, authorize a separate program to improve the customer experience on long-distance trains. This program would support: Wi-Fi service; experiential food and beverage service; interior refreshes; and enhanced stations, among other improvements. "
Thoughts?
Thoughts?In Amtrak's world, experiential means upgraded. This probably means supporting enhanced dining, not flex dining in its current form. But I still hold that Amtrak has no interest in the "experiential" model in the east, outside of Auto Train, which is unfortunate." In addition to the aforementioned funding for long-distance service, authorize a separate program to improve the customer experience on long-distance trains. This program would support: Wi-Fi service; experiential food and beverage service; interior refreshes; and enhanced stations, among other improvements. "
Ferroequinologist
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How long do you think these cars can keep on running? Weren't they introduced around 1979? I don't think they are as well built as Budd cars of the 1940s-1950s. A refresh would be OK if they were sold to a less developed country where abor is cheap but don't you think the US could do a little better? I know that some people here just don't agree but I consider converting the original Roomette design for one person to a room for two to be a flaw. It's simply too small for two people, especially today's super sized Americans. Aside from that, however, more storage space is needed. I realize that in 1979 there were fewer electronics so the lack of enough outlets was not a flaw, rather it's become a problem. There needs to be moe storage space in the Roomettes (solved by returning them to single use), the lack of room keys is a serious drawback, door curtains never really work well etc. You're right that poor AC is due to age.
The cars won't last forever, you're right. However the cars are still working now (and so are VIA's heritage sleepers), albeit with issues. An overhaul and refresh (maybe with some design changes for more plugs, better curtains, etc) would be fine IMHO.
Confidential memo to all Amtrak Beech Grove managers.
re: Superliners
Work order
Completely disassemble and reassemble using new parts.
re: Superliners
Work order
Completely disassemble and reassemble using new parts.
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- 4,893
Reminds me of comments many many years ago about Fords ("Fix Or Repair Daily")
- Open hood
- Remove radiator cap
- Replace everything else
- Put radiator cap back on
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
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I have heard the same, except that it was in the days when cars had ash trays, and the comment substituted the ash tray for the radiator cap
Ferroequinologist
Lead Service Attendant
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That's fair
Do passenger cars have a service life limit like revenue freight cars?
Mailliw
OBS Chief
Well if you convert the Superliner roomettes to single occupancy you reduce overall capacity to 30, same as Viewliners, which eliminates their advantage over single-level equipment.
Sounds good....until you look for those new parts...
You might need a foundry and a machine shop, among other 'tools'....
Ferroequinologist
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A Slumbercoach type design could be an alternative however the real solution is a larger subsidy to allow for accommodations suitable to 21st century people in a developed country. Anyway the current Administration may not be replaced by another sympathetic to Amtrak. I see this as a once in a life time opportunity to get a new trans-con fleet. Keep the Superliners and doom long haul trains because these cars just won't last forever. Progressive rail advocacy is about high speed, not overnight sleepers.
