Amtrak Guest Rewards 2.0 Coming January 2016

[tonys96]

Unless something changes on the "new" AGR Card the only way to get 10,000 Points for $5,000 spending is for that spendiing to be on Amtrak.

I would argue, "As it should be!" Since this makes it a reward for spending money upon and riding Amtrak, itself.Which is another reason why eliminating the 100 point minimum befuddles me a bit. This is a reward for encouraging people to pay cash for ride service.

Agree that it is good for you, in Chicago, where there are several daily trains in all directions. For those of us without those choices, maybe not so much.....just sayin'

So, would you say that elimination of the 100 point minimum might be a good thing, then? A sort of national equalization factor?

False Narrative. One has nothing to do with the other. I never took a 'points run' so that affects me not one iota.

 

[me_little_me]

I see a few gems in the sludge given that one would expect Amtrak to finally implement a penalty for changing/cancelling points trips and expect that costs in points would have gone up one way or the other.

My age gets me senior discount so paying in points gets me some point discount.

Not according to post #409.

 

[Anderson]

DA,

For what it's worth I have looked over those YOY numbers and they're mostly flat over the last few months and up slightly YTD. However, they're at a pretty high ratio of effective capacity on a bunch of routes as well (remember, even under near-ideal circumstances you cannot fill every seat on every train for the entire route). Bear in mind that some of the "drop" for the last month or two is, I believe, due to not having a split in Sunset/Eagle ridership due to trackwork...and some of the countervailing rise is due to a "dead cat bounce" on the Builder from last year's atrocious OTP, cancellations, etc. Note that I only have data through June; no telling what those wildfires are going to do. A lot of this is also pending the long-term effects on the Auto Train of some of the service "shuffling"...IIRC the speculation on here is that ridership held up as strongly as it did because folks had trips booked long before they announced the cuts.

Link to data:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/494/528/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-June-2015.pdf

 

[NorthShore]

So, would you say that elimination of the 100 point minimum might be a good thing, then? A sort of national equalization factor?

False Narrative. One has nothing to do with the other. I never took a 'points run' so that affects me not one iota.

And I've rarely taken any, either.

But, perhaps, both of us have taken a $49 ride in coach. Or a $80 ride during double points season. And, therefore, likewise, benefited from the bonus.

 

[JoeBas]

And I've rarely taken any, either.

But, perhaps, both of us have taken a $49 ride in coach. Or a $80 ride during double points season. And, therefore, likewise, benefited from the bonus.

In my case, you'd be wrong.

Nearest stations for me departing from my "home" station are about 2 hours TT east, or 5 hours TT west. Oh, and if I take them, I have to either wait until the next day to return (Beaumont), or if I'm lucky, get to sit all night in a sketchy area to catch the train back the next morning (San Antonio).

It's okay, though, it's not like I, you know, live in the 4th biggest city in the country or anything... ... ...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

DA,

For what it's worth I have looked over those YOY numbers and they're mostly flat over the last few months and up slightly YTD. However, they're at a pretty high ratio of effective capacity on a bunch of routes as well (remember, even under near-ideal circumstances you cannot fill every seat on every train for the entire route). Bear in mind that some of the "drop" for the last month or two is, I believe, due to not having a split in Sunset/Eagle ridership due to trackwork...and some of the countervailing rise is due to a "dead cat bounce" on the Builder from last year's atrocious OTP, cancellations, etc. Note that I only have data through June; no telling what those wildfires are going to do. A lot of this is also pending the long-term effects on the Auto Train of some of the service "shuffling"...IIRC the speculation on here is that ridership held up as strongly as it did because folks had trips booked long before they announced the cuts.

Link to data:

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/494/528/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-June-2015.pdf

I would agree that many of the larger ridership moves have been contaminated by external factors. Nonetheless in my view the renewed narrative already claiming that several rounds of amenity cuts, service reductions, cost increases, and rule tightening will have little or no impact is premature at best and overtly manipulative at worst. Personally I believe that accumulating a decade plus of sustained ridership increases was one of Amtrak's best selling points and that momentum appears to have been squandered in favor of a strategy based on strangling budgets into profitability.

 

[jis]

Amtrak has been a bit up against a capacity limit on many routes until we get the next new set of equipment in the midwest. That may be confounding some of the ridership growth numbers in a few routes too. So I think it is also premature to come to the conclusion that anything has been squandered either. What is good for the goose (one side of the argument) should be equally good for the gander (the other side). Frankly I don't know for sure and I take fervently stated theories as just that theories with inadequate factual foundation. We will know for sure only in several years, not right at this moment.

 

[tonys96]

So, would you say that elimination of the 100 point minimum might be a good thing, then? A sort of national equalization factor?

False Narrative. One has nothing to do with the other. I never took a 'points run' so that affects me not one iota.

And I've rarely taken any, either.

But, perhaps, both of us have taken a $49 ride in coach. Or a $80 ride during double points season. And, therefore, likewise, benefited from the bonus.

That would be a false assumption. I do not go anywhere, unless I have a reason to be there.

And the loss of 100 point minimums still has nothing to do with the devaluation of points for those of us who do not have local access to several trains/destinations on a daily basis, like those in, say, the NE, Chi, Was, LA, etc.........two completely separate and individual things. Just Sayin'

 

[rrdude]

Since AGR redemptions are now tied to the cash fare, isn't the biggest complaint is that the cash fare on many routes is simply way too high, especially when a connection is involved?

If so, using AGR as a way to make those specific routes "cheaper" (as it was in some cases under AGR 1.x) seems like a really odd way for Amtrak (or the mechanism people would want Amtrak to use) to have that happen. It doesn't help the majority of people who look at taking Amtrak for the first time, see a sky-high fare, and decide to book travel another way instead. It doesn't help those who don't want to wait to earn points through a loyalty program (either by credit card, spend through the AGR portal, or partner earning) and dedicate that purchasing power to Amtrak instead of another rewards program or cash back program. It doesn't help those who can't afford the points, or don't want to purchase points in hopes that the redemption will be cheaper than the cost of the points. AGR, as it was before, was not exactly intuitive (especially to the value of points and how even purchasing points could make a trip cheaper than paying cash for the same trip.)

It would be much better if Amtrak would somehow use this opportunity to reform the system and make those trips cheaper and more available to everyone, not just those who happen to be "in the know" of AGR. Maybe that will happen; as rooms go unsold or can't command the higher rates (and AGR members aren't taking them) sleeper prices may very well drop for cash fare, helping everyone. This may very well help Amtrak as well, as my understanding was that the cost AGR pays Amtrak for a trip is lower (potentially, in some cases, much lower) than what the cash price is for that room at any given point in time. Maybe that revenue movement has changed as well, essentially "forcing" the change onto AGR.

Dude, I want some of whatever you are smoking..........

 

[BCL]

I found several articles that read like press releases. Here's one:

http://www.travelpulse.com/news/car-rental-and-rail/amtrak-upgrading-rewards-program-for-2016.html

He seems to be doing a lot of fluff pieces, but his byline is attached to at least a few articles that look to be more than just repackaged press releases. However, his LinkedIn profile lists a masters degree from a community college. So take it for what it's worth.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yep, doess anyone know an actual living human being who talks like this Exec VP Hardisan?

It reads like a Press release from apolitical campaign, a bunch of hot air minus the bad news which is in the fine print!

Pleeze! It's all Marketing BS and Newspeak, as has been said, putting Lipstick on a Pig doesn't make anyone with a mind forget it's still a Pig!

George Orwell is smiling somewhere in the great beyond!

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

 

[seat38a]

What's wrong with that is 2-fold:

(1) It tends to lessen the financial viability of the whole system. Amtrak HQ knows in a general way what ridership and travel trends are, what said travel generates in terms of revenue, how many passengers will join AGR and will earn points, how much their award travel will "cost." These calculations go into setting fares, and the result is a financially viable system, including AGR awards. Now imagine that instead of traveling (per trends, estimates etc.), people just load up on points via cheap "points runs" and collect their expensive AGR awards. Net result--system is broken, estimates useless, revenue not covering expenses, awards eating up profits, and on and on. Net net, the result is AGR 2.0 which many are unhappy with.

(2) Seeing the point run abuses, Amtrak clamps down & eliminates the 100 point minimum. Hence I lose a nice fringe benefit of my CHI-MKE round trips (cost $48). And no, I'm not happy about that.

Disclaimer: I'm an NEC rider based out of NYP, but I'm not feeling great about the new AGR so I'm going to share my perspective (if for no other reason than to vent).

I travel most extensively to to BOS. I travel occasionally to PHL and WAS. I get that the "city pairs" were wonky because you could do PVD-BWI and get less than 500 points while someone else traveling just from BOS-STM gets 500, but if the TQPs required for Select Plus and Select Executive stay the same its going to be much harder to earn stays. I qualified for S+ in June and should hit SE in October courtesy of 500 TQPs on my $113 low-bucket tickets to BOs. With the new system I won't come anywhere near spending $10,000 with Amtrak. Based on the current fare structure, I can really only see NYP-WAS travelers qualifying for SE. In fact, if my travel drops slightly next year I may not even qualify for S+. The Club Acela in BOS is about to get even quieter.

Now that it's harder to earn TQPs and points on the Acela (and no 100 point minimum) I wonder if they'll drop the cost of the Club Acela passes and first class upgrades?

I get that I'm not going to get a lot of sympathy from most on this board as a business traveler who has my Acela business fare paid for me, but please know that as an NEC-North customer I'm also feeling like I'm losing something with the "new and improved AGR."

As someone who frequently commutes, I know the same pain. There are lots of talk on here about sleepers and LD travel, but corridor travel is the future and based on how you calculate "profit" (On the NEC, its about pure cash, while in California, success is measured on getting cars off the already congested freeway.) has been successful. Punishing the daily or weekly riders is probably the worst way to build political capital when fighting for left over pennies. By no means am I anti LD or sleepers. I pay for 1 or 2 trips in a bedroom a year.

I can't find the PDF but couple weeks ago, but it said something like AGR contributed to 8,000,000 ish in revenue to the Surfliner. Also at least for us out in California, it looks like LOSSAN plans to add enhancements on top of the program and not settle for it as is.

Develop additional route-specific incentives to supplement the existing Amtrak Guest Rewards program, offering added value to appeal to business travelers. (i.e. vouchers for free on-board meals/drinks, etc.) This would enhance the appeal of the Pacific Surfliner to business-minded passengers.

You can read the whole business plan here: http://www.octa.net/pdf/LOSSAN%20Business%20Plan%20FINAL.pdf

If anything, it maybe the States that work with the AGR to add value to their sponsored trains.

We maybe at a point where one program no longer fits the whole national system and may need to have a basic "federal" and enhanced "state" supplement to AGR.

 

[BCL]

Yep, doess anyone know an actual living human being who talks like this Exec VP Hardisan?

It reads like a Press release from apolitical campaign, a bunch of hot air minus the bad news which is in the fine print!

Pleeze! It's all Marketing BS and Newspeak, as has been said, putting Lipstick on a Pig doesn't make anyone with a mind forget it's still a Pig!

George Orwell is smiling somewhere in the great beyond!

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

I found a photo of Matt Harrison. Was posted to the Amtrak blog but their link is broken. The original photo still exists.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/matt-hardison/3/740/29a

As for community colleges, the state board that governs them in California approved bachelor's degrees in specific majors that wouldn't duplicated either CSU or UC programs.

 

[SarahZ]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

Sarah:BCL said in his post that the guys "Linked-in" Profile says he has a Masters Degree from.a Community College! They do things differently on the Left Coast!
And I think he's talking about the writer of the press release, er article, not Amtrak VP Hardison!,

And BTW, Hardison is, Surprise!,an ex-Air and Corporate suit! And his list of Skills is Amazing, he should be running for President if he can really do all of those things? He's underemployed @ Amtrak!

 

[BCL]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

He's talking about the author of the article. I'm not going to post his LinkedIn profile, but you can look up his name.

 

[SarahZ]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

Sarah:BCL said in his post that the guys "Linked-in" Profile says he has a Masters Degree from.a Community College! They do things differently on the Left Coast!
And I think he's talking about the writer of the press release, er article, not Amtrak VP Hardison!,

Okay. I must have read the wrong response and got confused.

 

[BCL]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

Sarah:BCL said in his post that the guys "Linked-in" Profile says he has a Masters Degree from.a Community College! They do things differently on the Left Coast!
And I think he's talking about the writer of the press release, er article, not Amtrak VP Hardison!,

And BTW, Hardison is, Surprise!,an ex-Air and Corporate suit! And his list of Skills is Amazing, he should be running for President if he can really do all of those things? He's underemployed @ Amtrak!

The writer is from PA. I'm kind of feeling bad for the guy if he's claiming he got a master from a community college. I'll send you a PM.

 

[Ryan]

And Masters Degrees from a Community College! Wow, I want one of those! Are they available for a fee via mail order or on- line?

Where do you see that? :huh: He got his MBA from Penn State. That's a Big Ten school.

Sarah:BCL said in his post that the guys "Linked-in" Profile says he has a Masters Degree from.a Community College! They do things differently on the Left Coast!And I think he's talking about the writer of the press release, er article, not Amtrak VP Hardison!,

And BTW, Hardison is, Surprise!,an ex-Air and Corporate suit! And his list of Skills is Amazing, he should be running for President if he can really do all of those things? He's underemployed @ Amtrak!

Delaware has been relocated to the left coast? Betty isn't going to like that!

 

[BCL]

Delaware has been relocated to the left coast? Betty isn't going to like that!

Delaware County actually. The irony is that it's not in Delaware but borders it. I think the Keystone runs through parts of the county.

I'm actually feeling kind of bad about any possible ridicule, so that's why I didn't directly post his profile URL.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Delaware County borders the Delaware River.

Since my daughter & grand kids live on the other side of the country, it might not be so bad if Delaware was moved over there. :giggle:

 

[NorthShore]

And I've rarely taken any, either.

But, perhaps, both of us have taken a $49 ride in coach. Or a $80 ride during double points season. And, therefore, likewise, benefited from the bonus.

In my case, you'd be wrong.

Nearest stations for me departing from my "home" station are about 2 hours TT east, or 5 hours TT west. Oh, and if I take them, I have to either wait until the next day to return (Beaumont), or if I'm lucky, get to sit all night in a sketchy area to catch the train back the next morning (San Antonio).

It's okay, though, it's not like I, you know, live in the 4th biggest city in the country or anything... ... ...

We're 4th now????? That totally sucks. I mean, the comedy school is going to have to change their name, and everything.
But, I'm curious.....what's coach fare to either of those cities? Or to any other city, for that matter, where you might want to spend a night or more? Is there anyplace that you could, conceivably, go for under fifty bucks? Or under a hundred during double points season?

 

[NorthShore]

But, perhaps, both of us have taken a $49 ride in coach. Or a $80 ride during double points season. And, therefore, likewise, benefited from the bonus.

That would be a false assumption. I do not go anywhere, unless I have a reason to be there.

Well, at least we (mostly) have that in common. Though, I can't deny "joyriding" entirely, having taken at least a train ride or two in my life just for the pure love of it. You ought to try that sometime. You might find it rewarding.

 

[benale]

Speaking of Double Days...I wonder if Amtrak will even have it this month. With the way things have been going..I wonder. I'd like to get those extra points. I have quite a few trips planned for this fall and none are point runs. Of course, if Double Days are back I might have to do a few of those.

 

[Carolina Special]

Perhaps in 2016 Double Days will be replaced by a brief return of the 100 points minimum. Call it "Minimum Month".