Amtrak in a Different Perspective

[guest in the west]

We have all seen the stories, and told many ourselves, about Amtrak's bare-bones national network, about its sometimes inconsistent service, about its wolf-at-the-door financial existence at times--and we bemoan what the state of rail passenger service in the United States has become.

But in thinking about Amtrak in comparison to private passenger railroads, it can be argued that Amtrak is better than ever today, better overall than service in the private age, and that the network and its services compares favorably even when posited against the so-called "golden years" of passenger rail service.

Consider these points:

--The heyday of posh long-distance passenger rail service began only in the mid-1930s with the Super Chief, the Zephyr, the various "City of" trains and the like, but had diminished severely only three decades later and was limping along mortally wounded by the mid-1960s. Amtrak will soon mark its 42nd anniversary and its overall service, and especially its long-distance trains, have been continually improving, not disappearing or becoming severely downgraded as happened to the majority of long-distance trains by the end of the 1960s.

--Its regional services, along the West Coast, out of Chicago and along the Northeast Corridor, continue to be upgraded--often in partnership with states--and their passenger numbers continue to increase. Regional services pre-Amtrak were often poorly maintained and at the mercy of private railroads with heavy influence over federal and/or state public utility commissioners and with their own often-capricious policies. (I will offer my own experience as a college student of going to the Penn Central ticket window in 1970 at Boston South Station for a Boston-DC ticket, and the agent refusing to sell me a ticket because I had a California Drivers License even though a local Boston bank checking account and a Boston area university identification card, until I demanded a supervisor who grudgingly, after almost a half hour of back-and-forth, "granted" me a one-time dispensation to write a check.)

The idea of a"golden era" of passenger rail seems built substantively on myth, and to the extent that it was reality, lasted for perhaps three decades.

In contrast, Amtrak year-by-year strengthens its foundation and institutional value, and by any judgment will be around for years to come in an improved capacity.

Or have I had too many Arrogant ******* beers today before offering this??

 

[TimePeace]

Nice post. I don't really know much of the history of "The Golden Age", but somehow always picture a bunch of fat-cat industrialists in their private cars. I am sure there were coach passengers back then too... but one never hears much about them. Today, the large majority of riders are in coach and enjoying much more space and freedom than air travelers. That has to be worth something, doesn't it!

 

[Nathanael]

I know a lot about the "golden age" of railroads, which really ended around 1900 with the rise of the motorcar. The key thing is that there were a gazillion services. If you could manage the (relatively small) fare, you could get *anywhere* by rail. *Anywhere*.

Being in upstate NY, the decline in rail services is really sad. Back in the day, you could leave Ithaca in *eight* directions; now it has no passenger train service at all.

There are other parts of the country which are actually better off than in the 'golden age', though. There is more rail service in Washington State, for example, than there ever was before. (Of course, in the 19th century it had a much smaller population.)

 

[zephyr17]

I have a couple of issues. While the network began to contract in the 1950s, it remained very robust well into the 1960s. It began a severe and rapid contraction after the 1967 withdrawal of the Post Office's first class mail service. However, on April 30, 1971 the network was much denser than it would be the next day, and fewer than half the trains were running the next day. And the network never got much better, although some corridors have improved vastly, but that is more the states' doing than Amtrak's.

I was fortunate to be in the west, with superlative passenger service of the Santa Fe, and the fine service provided by UP. The "regional service" San Diegans on the Santa Fe were nice trains. SP was the bad apple, and could be capricous (telling passengers a nearly empty train was sold out was a favorite tactic). SP actively tried to drive passengers away. It all depended on the railroad, but even at the end the good ones were better than Amtrak will ever be. But the bad ones were worse than Amtrak ever got. Service on SP trains improved with Amtrak almost immediately, as did ridership. I still remember when I got to eat in a diner again on the Coast Daylight/Starlight a few months after A-Day.

Amtrak has pulled some SP-like tactics over the course of its life, particularly with the periodic downgrades to dining service, like the "picnic" period of the early 80s, arguably the very worst period for Amtrak meals, more recently, the "simplifed dining service" featuring the ever popular Bob Evans Scramble and reduced dining car staffing. Downgrading food service was a favorite SP tactic. Amtrak's refusal to return to the Sunset East to service after CSX released the track to them less than a year after Katrina is a pretty negative example, too.

But the real streamliner "Golden Age" was short. I wouldn't even date it from the 1930s, since except for a few flagships, streamliners did become common until after World War II. The peak of the Golden Age of the Streamliners was probably only one decade, 1948-1958. The 1958 recession really kick started railroad cutbacks/downgrades. You could stretch it to maybe 15 years, 1948-1963. By 1963 things were sliding badly. But some railroads kept their Golden Age standards right to the end.

As one example, the Amtrak California Zephyr has lasted considerably longer (30 years, 1983-2013) than the original CZ (22 years 1948-1970).

My view is the Streamliner Golden Age was undoubtedly real and no myth. I got to experience some of it and Amtrak will forever be a disappointment to me. But it was also very, very short, 10-15 years.

Finally, you can make a case for a greater Golden Age ending at the onset of the Great Depression. That period had an unbelievably rich network by present standards, high frequency, high ridership and many deluxe trains. They just weren't streamlined, and coach wasn't nearly as comfortable as either the streamline era or Amtrak.

 

[zephyr17]

Nice post. I don't really know much of the history of "The Golden Age", but somehow always picture a bunch of fat-cat industrialists in their private cars. I am sure there were coach passengers back then too... but one never hears much about them. Today, the large majority of riders are in coach and enjoying much more space and freedom than air travelers. That has to be worth something, doesn't it!

They had the space and freedom had during the Streamline era, with better seats. Ever ride in a Sleepy Hollow seat? Makes a Superliner seat seem like it's made out of planks. There's always been more coach passengers than sleeper passengers. The streamline era trains made coach comfortable, with many coach-only streamliners, like the El Capitan, the various Daylights, the Challenger, the City of New Orleans and many more.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

There's not enough trains and if you think today's ridership is high, it's a VERY far cry from what it used to be when population was much lower. The fact that most people don't even know about Amtrak.....no, it's not succesful. At least give out some paper ads!

 

[TimePeace]

It's successful for me: I buy a ticket, it gets me there, and I have a good time. Better than flying.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

It's successful for me: I buy a ticket, it gets me there, and I have a good time. Better than flying.

But this is on the train forum. People here know about trains. Most people don't.

 

[TimePeace]

I know a lot about the "golden age" of railroads, which really ended around 1900 with the rise of the motorcar. The key thing is that there were a gazillion services. If you could manage the (relatively small) fare, you could get *anywhere* by rail. *Anywhere*.
Being in upstate NY, the decline in rail services is really sad. Back in the day, you could leave Ithaca in *eight* directions; now it has no passenger train service at all.

There are other parts of the country which are actually better off than in the 'golden age', though. There is more rail service in Washington State, for example, than there ever was before. (Of course, in the 19th century it had a much smaller population.)

I appreciate your perspective. It truly was a complete system and served the existing population well (again, from my limited knowledge).

Alas, life is different now and nothing much we can do about it.

 

[TimePeace]

It's successful for me: I buy a ticket, it gets me there, and I have a good time. Better than flying.

But this is on the train forum. People here know about trains. Most people don't.

Their loss. Back inthe golden age, there was not much radio, no internet, no minimum wage, and no Greyhound.

 

[crescent2]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

 

[Nathanael]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

This is the result of 100 years of outsized road subsidies -- subsidizing the competition to trains, while leaving trains to fend for themselves.

There were some early federal road subsidies in the 1900s and 1910s, but they started in earnest in 1925 with the "US Highway" system subsidies, which were mostly out of general fund money (not gas tax). Trains nevertheless recovered ridership during the Depression (despite cheap oil, many people didn't have enough money to drive), and recovered yet more ridership during rationing in World War II. The end of rationing coincided with an economic boom *and* with the conversion of the aircraft factories back into auto factories, and shortly after that, the Interstate System started pouring even *more* money into roads -- and oil was still cheap.

Meanwhile, trains were actually *paying taxes* which were effectively being used to build these roads -- a federal ticket tax, local property taxes at higher rates than anyone else (while roads were tax-free), etc. This disastrous situation, with the deck stacked extremely heavily in favor of autos and against trains, continued until the 1970s. The collapse of Penn Central and then the oil crises finally got people in power paying some attention to what they had wrought. The deck is still stacked against trains, but not quite as badly as during the 1950s.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

I agree, that's what I mean!

 

[Anderson]

On sheer ridership numbers, my understanding is that the SW Chief is higher than what you had with the Super Chief/El Cap near the end. I'm not sure how much the ex-Grand Canyon could add to that, but it may have added a bit. This is even more pronounced with the Builder (which I think has the ridership of several of its predecessors /combined/ due to bilevel equipment and a few decades of high-quality service) and so on.

My best guess is that Amtrak ridership is on par with what existed in about 1967/68, after the Post Office slide. But the nature of that ridership has changed (more concentrated in corridors, etc.) and the network is a lot thinner (if more concentrated). Amtrak is running close to as many trains as were run prior to A-Day, but it's got better load factors on a lot of them.

One thing to remember is that by 1970, there were a number of trains that were running near-empty but that were still stuck in the schedules because of ICC red tape. Some of it was railroad malice, but there were plenty of places where service quality had collapsed because of cost issues (be it cutting OBS back or awful maintenance) and ridership had gone with it. Let's also not forget that the Penn Central, L&N, and more than a few other roads were either "walking dead" or barely keeping their heads above water.

Yet there were strong markets. The NEC always had a decent pile of ridership (esp. post-Metroliner), and the Florida markets never collapsed. Santa Fe nurtured their operations and kept them healthy by putting their heart and soul into running their trains well up until the end. And so on. But this doesn't avoid the fact that there were a lot of lines where ridership was lousy on the primary train, let alone the backup one that had survived multiple train-offs.

We've come back a long way in the last 10-15 years, and we may yet be able to come back further in the next 10-15. Assuming nothing else gets messed up, between 2012 and 2018 I think we're looking at about 20 cities getting service back for the first time in decades, from Maine to Virginia to Illinois. If we should be so fortunate, we might see a few more stops added to the LD system and frequency increases in a number of places. And there are serious private-sector plans for new passenger service moving ahead for the first time since at least the mid-50s with the FEC project, to say nothing of the jumble of proposals out in CA/NV.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

Since I live in Atlanta and have lots of old timetables,let me know what town you are in I would like to look it up

My mother and I often spent the day in Atlanta, traveling from Chattanooga. And lots of people used to travel from Savannah for shopping..

 

[JayPea]

I guess it depends where you live in Washington. At one time, counting local interurbans, there were 90 passenger trains/day that served Spokane. Now it's just the Empire Builder.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I guess it depends where you live in Washington. At one time, counting local interurbans, there were 90 passenger trains/day that served Spokane. Now it's just the Empire Builder.

Though I heard the EB never really collapsed, mainly because of token competitors like regional flights, two-lane highways, and no buses.

 

[rene50]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

I've heard the same type of stories, but my family traveled to Memphis by train to go to Goldsmith's Department Store, and to Little Rock to shop at Pfiefer-Blass (now Dillards's). Don't ask me, but my mother preferred a certain brand of sheets that she could only get at Goldsmith's. They are great sheets; I still use some of them in my home to this day. She would travel to Memphis by train once a year to shop for linens. A different time...

So sad, the train depot in our little town hasn't seen a train in years and years, but it's refurbished for community events. How nice it would be to take a train to the "big city" as my mom and grandmother did. Instead, we have very limited service out of Little Rock, and my husband and I will fly to Chicago next week to board a train for a long distant trip.

 

[henryj]

From my perspective, the 'Golden Age' was from around 1948 until the mid 1960's. Here in Houston we had two large passenger stations, Union Station and the SP's Grand Central and the small MKT station. Just from memory I can count at least 11 trains that originated at Union Station, 6 MP, 3 ATSF, 1 RI, 1 CB&Q. The SP used to advertise 52 trains a day. But the streamlined trains were only 3. One could go by train to anywhere in the US. Now all three stations are gone and we have one train three times a week and one daily thru-way bus. The decline started in ernest with the arrival of the jet plane in 1958 and the building of the interstate highway system. Beyond that the real heyday of train travel was into the 1920's when the arrival of the automobile started a steady decline that really hasn't ended.........until now maybe. Then the great depression further hammered passenger rail with the discontinuance of many local and branchline trains. Of course WWII then created huge demand for rail travel which quickly melted away after the war. The railroads spent millions on fancy new streamlined trains trying to keep some of that traffic, hence the so called 'golden age'. But they failed to account for increased popularity of air travel and of course the Governments investment in the interstate highway system and those millions invested in streamlined trains turned out to be a big mistake financially. Amtrak was really formed to take the burden of passenger train loses off the freight railroads and oversee it's gradual demise. But as with most government agencies, it's still with us today 42 years later and we can be thankful that it is.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I live in a small town in Georgia. My mother used to tell me about when she could catch a passenger train in town and go to Atllanta to shop at Rich's and Davison's (now Macy's), and then ride back the same day. I can't even imagine that!

I've heard the same type of stories, but my family traveled to Memphis by train to go to Goldsmith's Department Store, and to Little Rock to shop at Pfiefer-Blass (now Dillards's). Don't ask me, but my mother preferred a certain brand of sheets that she could only get at Goldsmith's. They are great sheets; I still use some of them in my home to this day. She would travel to Memphis by train once a year to shop for linens. A different time...

So sad, the train depot in our little town hasn't seen a train in years and years, but it's refurbished for community events. How nice it would be to take a train to the "big city" as my mom and grandmother did. Instead, we have very limited service out of Little Rock, and my husband and I will fly to Chicago next week to board a train for a long distant trip.

What town do you live in? And what brand of sheets?

From my perspective, the 'Golden Age' was from around 1948 until the mid 1960's. Here in Houston we had two large passenger stations, Union Station and the SP's Grand Central and the small MKT station. Just from memory I can count at least 11 trains that originated at Union Station, 6 MP, 3 ATSF, 1 RI, 1 CB&Q. The SP used to advertise 52 trains a day. But the streamlined trains were only 3. One could go by train to anywhere in the US. Now all three stations are gone and we have one train three times a week and one daily thru-way bus. The decline started in ernest with the arrival of the jet plane in 1958 and the building of the interstate highway system. Beyond that the real heyday of train travel was into the 1920's when the arrival of the automobile started a steady decline that really hasn't ended.........until now maybe. Then the great depression further hammered passenger rail with the discontinuance of many local and branchline trains. Of course WWII then created huge demand for rail travel which quickly melted away after the war. The railroads spent millions on fancy new streamlined trains trying to keep some of that traffic, hence the so called 'golden age'. But they failed to account for increased popularity of air travel and of course the Governments investment in the interstate highway system and those millions invested in streamlined trains turned out to be a big mistake financially. Amtrak was really formed to take the burden of passenger train loses off the freight railroads and oversee it's gradual demise. But as with most government agencies, it's still with us today 42 years later and we can be thankful that it is.

Wow, 52 trains a day! Was that the largest railroad out of Houston? I can't even think of all the destinations those trains went to.

Now must be a great time to invest in trains due to the low popularity of planes and cars. Car use is even dropping. Too bad Amtrak is slow to expand.

Small correction, though, the first domestic jet flights were in 1959, not 1958, but it's not much of a difference now.

 

[henryj]

Wow, 52 trains a day! Was that the largest railroad out of Houston? I can't even think of all the destinations those trains went to.

SP was counting arrivals and departures. It was an advertising gimick. I can list most of them. NOL to LA, 2(Sunset &Argonaut); Hou to SAS 1(Alamo); Hou to Dallas 3(Sunbeam &Hustler were streamlined, Owl was not); Hou to Austin, 2; Hou to Brownsville and Corpus(Border Ltd), 1; Hou to Galveston, 1; Hou to Shreveport, 2; Hou to SAS on the SAAP, 1; Hou to NOL(Acadian), 1. Like I said, all but three were locals with heavyweight equipment. All were gone by the early fifties with the Sunbeam and Hustler disapearing in 1955/56 and the Owl and the Argonaut in 1958 leaving only the Streamlined Sunset which is still with us today. A section of the Argonaut between Hou and NOL survived into the 1960's because of problems with Louisiana but no one rode it. There were some even more obscure locals I would need an Official Guide to identify, but an example is Hou to Victoria and Hou to Palacious, both motors. But to get to 52 for instance the Sunset and Argonaut would count as 8 arrivals and departures and the Border Ltd might be as high as 6(Corpus, Brownsville and SAS). Most of the trains that used Union Station were streamlined LD trains except for the MP trains to NOL and the Valley and the CB&Q's Sam Houston Zephyr to Dallas. The only survivor into Amtrak was the Texas Chief, later Lone Star between Hou and Chi, then Carter took that away too. So here in Texas, Amtrak is pretty much a disaster.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Were the Owl and Border Limited overnight trains? I assueme all the other were day trains except the SL, Argonaut, and the many LDs from Union Station.

 

[Nathanael]

I guess it depends where you live in Washington. At one time, counting local interurbans, there were 90 passenger trains/day that served Spokane. Now it's just the Empire Builder.

I was counting Seattle-Portland and Portland-Vancouver service. It's one of the rare cases where there is actually more service than ever before. I guess service was much more east-west in the 19th century, and now it's more north-south. Short-distance interurban service is still below what it used to be in both Seattle and Portland, but much of that is being restored too.

 

[Nathanael]

some corridors have improved vastly, but that is more the states' doing than Amtrak's.

And as a result the country has diverged, with the states and localities which have invested in rail developing improved services, while the states and localities which haven't done so have practically nothing. It's pretty obvious by now. Texas hasn't been willing to spend the money, so it has a terrible intercity network, and only recently have its localities spent the money, so they have poor urban networks too. Meanwhile, California has made huge strides. It's even visible on a tiny scale, with New Hampshire having a fraction of the rail service of neighboring Vermont or Maine.

 

[jphjaxfl]

The first Golden Age of Passenger Trains started about 1900 when all steel passenger railroad cars were built. Thats when trains like the 20th Century LTD, Sunset Limited, Empire Builder Predecessor Oriental Limited and other famous trains started. Very elegant elaborate Dining Cars replaced meal stops. Pullman cars offered many more types of accomodations compared to what Amtrak Sleepers offer. Lounge Cars offered many services such as Barber Shops, stenographers and there were even Mens and Ladies lounge cars. This era lasted through til the Depression started in 1929. The next Golden Age started in 1936 with the advent of the Streamliners such as the Pioneer Zephyr and UP's City Streamliner. Completely new 20th Century and Broadway LTD Streamliners competed along with many other trains from New York to Chicago. Private railroad patronage was much higher than Amtrak is today immediately before Amtrak because there were alot more trains. Many private railroads wanted the public to trains were almost empty so they could get them discontinued with myths much like the politicians make up today. The Louisville and Nashville Railroad was very financially sound in the late 1960s until 1971 when Amtrak started. I went to college in the Louisville, KY area graduating in 1971. I had friends working for the L&N so I know what I am talking about. That was the era when the L&N bought part of the C&EI and later the Monon, so they were not the "walking dead" as has been stated. The Super Chief/EL Capitain carried many more passengers than the Southwest Chief does today. I rode the trains several times in the pre Amtrak era including August, 1970 when the Super Chief and El Capitain were running as seperate sections. Santa Fe had plenty of passenger cars to add to the trains. I can tell you from experience Santa Fe trains were packed in summer months and around the holiday season. You could also travel on Santa Fe's San Francisco Chief which had through Sleepers for Los Angeles switched to the Grand Canyon at Barstow. You could also take the Grand Canyon on a slower schedule. The City of Los Angles also was still running from Chicago to Los Angeles as part of the City of Everywhere, but it was much more reliable because it was the City that the other City trains were switched into. Both Santa Fe and Milwaukee/UP offered a full compliament of Sleeping Accomodations including roomettes (for single travelers only) bedrooms, compartments and drawing rooms which could arranged as a suite which could accomodate a large family. When was the last time Amtrak offered a second section of a train? Amtrak can barely provide equipment for the trains they operate. Incorrect Statements are made by posters who have no idea what they are taking about. At least when the ICC was regulating passenger trains, they would hold a "train off" hearing where passengers could testify about their use of the train and some trains were saved by that means. It would be nice if we had had a "train off" hearing regarding the Sunset east of New Orleans.