Amtrak long distance fares 2021-2023

[Sidney]

There are many schools of thought on these outrageous sleeper prices. Some say Amtrak should charge as much as someone would pay. If that means $4000 r/t ,so be it. Others,including myself think Amtrak is pricing sleepers out of the comfort range of average people. When I see roomettes already priced at well over $1000 on the SW Chief for next April,my first thought is how can these be booked that much so far in advance?

I have been riding Amtrak for over three decades taking cross country and circle trips every year. If the prices remain this high,I just won't go. I am sure many people here agree with me.

 

[Qapla]

It would seem like making the tickets "non-transferable" would curb people from "snagging all the rooms" if they could not sell them to anyone ... unless the person they sell them to has their exact same name, phone number and birthdate

 

[zephyr17]

If Amtrak can largely fill its accommodations using its current yield management methods, more power to them. It maximizes much needed revenue.

If they are not nearly full, they are wasting a perishable commodity by setting prices too high, thereby losing revenue and so need to improve their yield management practices.

There is no morality here. No one has a right to a roomette. Amtrak is selling inventory, they are entitled to maximize the yield on that inventory.

I always search for lower bucket fares and usually manage to get them. I refuse to pay high bucket fares and will turn to other alternatives or not travel. I am willing to pay a substantial premium over airfare to take the train, but I have my limits. If Amtrak ultimately prices me out, but maintains high load factors, I will accept that. There are things I can't afford, and that is a simple fact of life. If they price me out but are dispatching trains with large numbers of empty rooms, I will be pissed.

The win win solution here is to increase the supply to more closely meet demand. That would result in lower sleeper fares while increasing revenue. While acquiring sleeping cars incur a high capital costs, those costs ought to amortized over the life of the cars, which can be measured in decades. There are higher incremental costs to running additional cars, but the additional revenue also helps cover a greater portion of high fixed costs.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

There are many schools of thought on these outrageous sleeper prices. Some say Amtrak should charge as much as someone would pay. If that means $4000 r/t ,so be it. Others,including myself think Amtrak is pricing sleepers out of the comfort range of average people. When I see roomettes already priced at well over $1000 on the SW Chief for next April,my first thought is how can these be booked that much so far in advance?

I have been riding Amtrak for over three decades taking cross country and circle trips every year. If the prices remain this high,I just won't go. I am sure many people here agree with me.

Constantly telling us on AU is not going to make Amtrak change the pricing, improve the food, add back the SSL, etc. All it does is irritate your fellow train lovers.

 

[railiner]

Possibly the two Amfleet coaches that were modified with sleeper modules and used on the "Hilltopper" and a couple of other trains?

That's it, except not on the "Hilltopper". Amfleet I 22901, and 22902 were 60 seaters that were rebuilt with a pair of prototype Superliner Economy Bedroom modules at one end. They were used on the Washington-Parkersburg-Cincinnati "Shenandoah" overnight train in the late '70's. Wags called them "Ampads"....

 

[Ryan]

I have been riding Amtrak for over three decades taking cross country and circle trips every year. If the prices remain this high,I just won't go. I am sure many people here agree with me.

If you had a dollar for every time you repeated this over and over, you'd be able to afford those high fares.

 

[Ryan]

What purported problem would this solve?

 

[Sidney]

OK Got the message.

 

[zephyr17]

My understanding is they've stopped tour companies from grabbing large blocks of rooms early on without having to pay for them up front, which was distorting the yield management. Then when it came time to pay (60 days out? 90? I don't recall), they'd release the unsold ones. They can still grab them, but now they either have pay for them upfront, or have to pay for them much earlier or release them. Seaboard92 may have more and better info on that.

That was the only example of an entity "snagging all the rooms" that I knew of.

Oh, and tickets are already non-transferable. They just don't check IDs much to enforce it.

 

[jiml]

That's it, except not on the "Hilltopper". Amfleet I 22901, and 22902 were 60 seaters that were rebuilt with a pair of prototype Superliner Economy Bedroom modules at one end. They were used on the Washington-Parkersburg-Cincinnati "Shenandoah" overnight train in the late '70's. Wags called them "Ampads"....

Imagine how useful those would be today. Start with the NEC overnight...

 

[flitcraft]

It would seem like making the tickets "non-transferable" would curb people from "snagging all the rooms" if they could not sell them to anyone ... unless the person they sell them to has their exact same name, phone number and birthdate

Well, that would require that they collect such information--which based on my experience, they don't. In fact, I have never even been asked to show proof of age to justify my senior discount--let only phone number and date of birth to verify my identity. Now that you mention it, though, I should be offended that the conductors haven't asked me for proof that I qualify as a senior.

 

[flitcraft]

The food, while it could be better, is perfectly edible.
2. By serving food in its original packaging, they're able to cut back on staff, and thus improve the bottom line. And it doesn't make any difference to the diner, unless they're picky and insist on white glove service,

I'm reminded of a lawsuit settlement compliance inspection I was a part of as a young whippersnapper, of the food served at Mississippi's Parchman prison, which I would concur, could have (very much) been better, but was perfectly edible--at least in the sense that you wouldn't die or even get seriously ill from consuming it.

And on the second point, I wouldn't patronize a place that served its food in the original packaging--and I hope that if I ever am unlucky enough to be served Amstew due to a problem that it isn't served in its original tin can!

The thing is, no one is asking for luxurious food or plating here. Just the kind of quality you would expect at a diner or low-end chain restaurant. For the price of bedrooms and roomettes, I don't think that keeping up with Denny's or a greasy spoon diner is asking too much, myself.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Now that you mention it, though, I should be offended that the conductors haven't asked me for proof that I qualify as a senior.

Yeah. When I first started asking for senior meals/discounts I wondered if I should feel insulted if they didn’t question me. But, hey, I was saving money, so insult me all you want.

 

[jis]

Back when they first started including food in the ticket price, I thought it was a horrible idea, but I was told that without doing so there would not be any Diner service. Well apparently even after doing so there is only very marginal Diner service, and additionally all additional revenue from Coach passengers have been dropped completely. Go figure!

Maybe it is time to decouple food from the fare and charge for food commensurate with the quality of service provided in the Diner. Those that do not wish to partake in the luxury of Diner can fend for themselves for food from the Cafe at Cafe prices as was the way before this complication was added.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/business/plane-ticket-airlines-airfare/index.html

 

[Ryan]

The airlines are obviously conspiring to put themselves out of business. Clearly.

 

[dlagrua]

I don't agree with that. Congress wants to see what looks like Amtrak "making money" (or at least losing less) and operating like a business. THAT is what will keep Amtrak funding going, not the perception that it is a bottomless money pit that can never hope to make even an operating profit.

Can you name any form of government transportation that is making money? I thought public transportation was there to serve the American public. No form of government makes money so why should Amtrak be the exception?

 

[Mailliw]

I find it's generally too warm including in the sleepers. I like it 70 F but Amtrak seems to set the temp around 75 F or higher

Well at least in a roomette you can strip naked; I imagine that's frowned upon in coach regardless if you're wearing a mask or not.

 

[joelkfla]

Well at least in a roomette you can strip naked; I imagine that's frowned upon in coach regardless if you're wearing a mask or not.

Please -- put a towel on the seat.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Ah, those fabled bedrooms... I have heard of them, passed by them, but sadly, even in the good old days, never snagged one!
Just a thought, what were "roomettes" called previously, I seem to remember the term "roomette" appearing only in the last 15 years?

ECONOMY BEDROOMS!

 

[Cal]

ECONOMY BEDROOMS!

Hey, I haven't seen you on here in a little bit. Welcome back

 

[JayPea]

Constantly telling us on AU is not going to make Amtrak change the pricing, improve the food, add back the SSL, etc. All it does is irritate your fellow train lovers.

A-double-Men!!!!

 

[jiml]

Back when they first started including food in the ticket price, I thought it was a horrible idea, but I was told that without doing so there would not be any Diner service. Well apparently even after doing so there is only very marginal Diner service, and additionally all additional revenue from Coach passengers have been dropped completely. Go figure!

Maybe it is time to decouple food from the fare and charge for food commensurate with the quality of service provided in the Diner. Those that do not wish to partake in the luxury of Diner can fend for themselves for food from the Cafe at Cafe prices as was the way before this complication was added.

Although it's a good idea, doesn't that return the "vicious circle" argument that more exclusivity and higher prices could bring lower patronage making having a diner harder to justify - the reason meals were included? If you're going "experiential" the whole product would have to be upgraded - not just the diner.

 

[jis]

To go into the background, a little rambling tour of the territory is perhaps in order, so here goes....

You see, I don't care about "experiential" much. As long as a Sleeper is made available without the "experience" at a lower cost, I am all for the "experiential" for those that need it at whatever they need to be charged for the experience. As long as it was available, I took the Slumbercoach which is the sort of thing I need mostly, and it did not add the cost of the experiential since meals were not included in the fare for it. Sadly they went down with the potty fiasco.

As far as I am concerned the way Sleeper service fares are structured these days, it is a means for the likes of me to subsidize the "experiential" for those who are unwilling to bear the cost of their experience. I know this is probably not a popular position specially in a group tilting "experiential". But hey it takes one of each kind to make this world.

The reality though, is that LD passenger service is so minuscule and Sleeper within that even more so, that it is probably unrealistic to partition the market further with myriads of levels of service, so in practical terms perhaps this is all that is realistically possible. The cost of not having a system that is not really large enough to be quite viable yet, and which has failed to keep pace with just the population growth in terms of ridership. So the train lovers like me would now basically have a train at virtually any price. At least I certainly behave that way!

Historically, after the fares were raised by very significant amounts ostensibly to cover meals, the transfer rules were set up such that provably a larger proportion of the additional fare (which was supposed to be for covering meals) was plowed back into the transportation side, and an inadequate amount was assigned to the F&B side to sustain the Diners (that is how we got where we are). They could have transferred a fixed proportion of the fare to F&B and F&B would have gotten more money overall if done right. Instead they decided the complex method of actually transferring only the menu price of actual food consumed, as if people eating cheaper items would require fewer OBS personnel to serve them. The whole thing was a typical Amtrak and DOT/Volpe Center engineered cockup. At the end of the day all of this is direct consequence of making "profit" more important than "service", which has been Amtrak's Achilles heel since day 1.

 

[jiml]

I mostly agree with everything you just said and don't necessarily favor experiential over quality basic service. My counterpoint to your paid diner suggestion (which I also basically agree with) was that when included dining came in Amtrak didn't have much else to offer. By including decent food, pleasantly served, they provided a "carrot" for the fact they were operating ancient inherited equipment. Perhaps the time to return to paid dining was when the Superliners were relatively new and provided a better passenger experience. To revert to paid dining right now when things are a little "worn" schedules are slipping and amenities like lounges are disappearing might not achieve the ideal result. If you tell someone they're going to have to pay $50 for a steak before returning to a slightly shabby room on a 6-hour late train for $1000+, they may decide to opt for cafe food and the diner will face two choices - higher prices or discontinuance.