Amtrak long distance fares 2021-2023

[jis]

So instead we have many people entirely opting out of using Amtrak. I guess there are no good choices here. It is a choice between bad and worse. Sadly.

However, when one is so capacity constrained that one can afford to lose significant amount of clientele simply because there is no inventory to accommodate them anyway, it probably makes sense to focus on the clientele who has the deepest pockets. That is what Amtrak is doing and it is logical if "profit over service" is our motto. Improve the service just enough to keep the deep pockets giving and then milk them for all they are worth. As I said before, that includes saps like me who would pay almost any price to ride in basic comfort, even if the rest of the bells and whistles ostensibly paid for by the very high fares are of little interest.

And then it becomes a bourgeois service as the masses rise in revolt...

 

[Ryan]

why should Amtrak be the exception

Because Congress said so?

FYI The bid upgrade program is now available for sleepers.

That's impossible. I was assured that Amtrak's claim that it was coming soon was just more lies because they hate LD service and want to kill it.

 

[uncleboots]

I paid 300 Dollars for a Roomete for the Westbound Chief Chicago to LA on 10/2. I was fortunate enough to transfer Chioce Hotel Points to Amtrak Rewards which knocked the price down to $300.

 

[dlagrua]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/25/business/plane-ticket-airlines-airfare/index.html

If that is the case then why are some route Amtrak LD sleeper fares 3-5X that of first class air? Government owned pubic transportation systems hardly ever, if ever make a profit and are supposed to be there to serve the Amercan public. Should we now look at Amtrak as being a corporation chartered to utilize cutthroat pricing to stay in business? If so let them privatize, put them on the stock exchange and let them go at it.

 

[Barb Stout]

I paid 300 Dollars for a Roomete for the Westbound Chief Chicago to LA on 10/2. I was fortunate enough to transfer Chioce Hotel Points to Amtrak Rewards which knocked the price down to $300.

Hmm. Is this something new or a special deal? A few years ago I transferred some Hilton points to AGR, but didn't get any big (or small) discount on my ticket prices for doing so.

 

[hlcteacher]

if ld service is so "minuscle" how come i can't book a ld seat when i want to travel? always sold out so i end up taking a bus (or flying)-pre-covid!!!

 

[jis]

if ld service is so "minuscle" how come i can't book a ld seat when i want to travel? always sold out so i end up taking a bus (or flying)-pre-covid!!!

It is precisely because it is minuscule due to inadequate funding that you cannot get a toehold into the available inventory. It could be much bigger but that would require significant capital investment which there is at present a lack of desire as far as LD service goes, evidently. It is the way it is because of collective political decisions based on dogmas currently in fashion, not because there is something inherent governed by laws of Physics or something like that.

Demand far outstrips the supply that the nation is willing to bear the initial cost of. Given those consciously chosen constraints by the powers that be, the service remain teetering on the verge of non-viability. Adequately funded it could be quite vibrant and the fare equations and viablity of the system across the board could all change in a positive way.

 

[Ryan]

Should we now look at Amtrak as being a corporation chartered to utilize cutthroat pricing to stay in business?

Once more, in hopes that you will understand it this time.

§ 700.2 Organization and functioning of Amtrak.
The creation of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (“Amtrak”) was authorized by the Rail Passenger Service Act, as amended, 84 Stat. 1327, 45 U.S.C. 541 et seq. (“the Act”). The Act requires that Amtrak be operated and managed as a for-profit corporation, that it be incorporated under the District of Columbia Business Corporation Act, and subject to the provisions of that statute to the extent not inconsistent with the Act, and that it provide a balanced transportation system by developing, operating, and improving intercity rail passenger service. The Act also states that Amtrak will not be an agency or establishment of the United States Government.

 

[jis]

Once more, in hopes that you will understand it this time.

It maybe a fools errand @Ryan

 

[Ryan]

Fortunately, many people already think I am a fool.

 

[lrh442]

Fool or not , Ryan is absolutely correct that Amtrak is, by charter, required to be operated and managed as a for-profit corporation (regardless of whether we think that's appropriate or not).

The interesting question is whether the current high sleeper prices are straying into price-gouging territory. A for-profit enterprise will certainly maximize short-term revenue/profits up to a point , but will carefully avoid running prices so high that they chase off future customers or invite federal scrutiny of their pricing practices.

If ultra-high prices are alienating future customers, or jeopardizing government funding by perpetuating the perception that Amtrak is a land cruise for the wealthy, then one can make the case that they are not fulfilling their obligation to operate as a for-profit enterprise (where it is implicit that the obligation is to operate as a rational for-profit enterprise).

If neither situation applies, then Amtrak should charge what the market will bear and damn the torpedoes.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Fortunately, many people already think I am a fool.

Redacted

 

[uncleboots]

Hmm. Is this something new or a special deal? A few years ago I transferred some Hilton points to AGR, but didn't get any big (or small) discount on my ticket prices for doing so.

Yeah! Choice Hotels have a program where you can transfer points to Amtrak Rewards. It’s worth checking into.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Yeah! Choice Hotels have a program where you can transfer points to Amtrak Rewards. It’s worth checking into.

She was asking about your “knocked the price down”. How did using points knock the price down? Did you split the trip up so you could use points on one leg and $$$ on the other leg?

 

[neroden]

Back when they first started including food in the ticket price, I thought it was a horrible idea, but I was told that without doing so there would not be any Diner service. Well apparently even after doing so there is only very marginal Diner service, and additionally all additional revenue from Coach passengers have been dropped completely. Go figure!

Maybe it is time to decouple food from the fare and charge for food commensurate with the quality of service provided in the Diner. Those that do not wish to partake in the luxury of Diner can fend for themselves for food from the Cafe at Cafe prices as was the way before this complication was added.

I suppose I should repeat my complaint about the degradation of the cafe menu in the 2018-2019 timeframe. It was rather good for a few years before that.

 

[neroden]

The win win solution here is to increase the supply to more closely meet demand. That would result in lower sleeper fares while increasing revenue. While acquiring sleeping cars incur a high capital costs, those costs ought to amortized over the life of the cars, which can be measured in decades. There are higher incremental costs to running additional cars, but the additional revenue also helps cover a greater portion of high fixed costs.

Indeed -- order more sleepers! Lots more!

 

[Bonser]

Why have bedroom costs gone astronomically up for the summer and fall 2021? Cross country, NYP-SFC, that used to be from $1250 to $2200, now is priced $2900-$3900. I've taken this trip about 8 times in the past 7 years and the jump from roomette to bedroom is often double. And the roomette cost now equals or exceeds the old bedroom price. Is all this just supply and demand? Is the relative inaccessibility to Canada and limited service of ViaRail contributing to this? Or is it a new Amtrak LD policy to discourage ridership? Thanks for any insight.


MODERATOR NOTE: 2 threads on similar topics (high prices on SWC roomettes and high prices on bedrooms) have been merged and the thread title edited.

 

[railiner]

Supply and Demand is my guess. I don't believe in any "conspiracy theories" to kill Long Distance. At least from within the Company....

 

[Devil's Advocate]

My post below is more succinct. ⬇

 

[dlagrua]

We've seen prices for sleepers even higher than mentioned by Tom like $6500 Bedroom coast to coast R/T. Amtrak may come to realize that they are not the only transportation service choice available or will they?
We will gladly continue to support Amtrak at 2X the price of First Class Air but not a penny more. I believe that is generous enough of us. Due to the exorbitant sleeper prices this year will be flying first class air on our August trip. As for the theory that the Amtrak BOD is trying to kill the LD service they already lost $3200 of our business and the airlines picked up $1600. There must be more that have been priced out. Is there a plan to kill LD sleeper service? It sure seems like it right now but a watch to see if the bedrooms/roomettes are really selling out might tell the story.

 

[Sidney]

Simple. If people are willing to pay sky high prices for sleepers,Amtrak will charge it.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Simple. If people are willing to pay sky high prices for sleepers,Amtrak will charge it.

If so many are willing to pay sky high prices why did Amtrak feel the need to implement a new bidding process for coach customers? Is there any proof that the same number of rooms are being sold as before? Seems to me that supply is constrained and Amtrak is trying to sell fewer rooms at twice the price to cover the shortfall. When routine sleeper travelers balk at the new prices Amtrak simply dumps the rooms on random passengers at a steep discount just before departure.

 

[coventry801]

Sleeper price for the second half of 2021 is an insanity.

I guess I will pass LD train travel for the rest of the year. Glad I did multiple coast to coast sleeper trip during 2020 and first half of 2021.

 

[Tlcooper44]

I'm looking to take a sleeper on the silver star/meteor June 26th from Tampa to NYP, and it seems that sleeper prices have hit a "reasonable," point at $631. I guess occasionally there is a sweet spot for fares sometime closer to the departure date. Much less than buisness class for the same date on any legacy airline.

 

[zephyr17]

I'm looking to take a sleeper on the silver star/meteor June 26th from Tampa to NYP, and it seems that sleeper prices have hit a "reasonable," point at $631. I guess occasionally there is a sweet spot for fares sometime closer to the departure date. Much less than buisness class for the same date on any legacy airline.

That looks to be middle bucket. Amtrak's yield management will reallocate inventory if anticipated demand appears not to be materializing.