Amtrak long distance fares 2021-2023

[jis]

Never is a stretch, they weren't too far off before COVID.

Only above the rail operating basis. Not as a corporation overall.

And there is speculation on here on how accurate Amtrak accounting is regarding LD trains...

The Amtrak audited corporate account is as good as any other company's corporate accounts, all of which probably leave something to be desired in detaild disclosures of capital cost allocations to each individual year. There is no reason to believe that there is huge hanky panky there in the Amtrak account. So their overall top and bottom line are probably not too far off.

The LD train accounting is a different matter. It has to do with how shared costs are allocated among the several business units incurring those costs and that would have no effect on the overall corporate P&L statement. It is an internal matter of financial gymnastics which possibly could be used in internal strategizing on which BU to favore etc., as is alleged by the afficionados of the LD service, who also hold a fantasy of LD profitability some day near and dear to their hearts, which, if the private railroads had managed to achieve in a hundred years, they would not have dumped passenger service as soon as possible anyway.

 

[Sidney]

I wish Amtrak would let solo travelers have both seats. If there was any positive about the pandemic it was the 50% capacity in Coach. Knowing I would have the seat next to me free was incentive to book a few overnights in Coach the past year. Now the possibility of sleeping next to a stranger in close proximity had deterred me from booking overnight coach. God,I wish roomette prices would drop!

 

[Barb Stout]

Basically, I had trouble sleeping. Part of this was due to the seats having no neck support, part of it being me not used to sleeping sitting up, part of it was due to the car being hot (this trip happened in late October 2018, so the heat was jacked up), and part of it was due to me getting motion sick about 7-8 hours into the journey. I only got about 2 hours of sleep if you paste all my attempts at sleep together. I can function on less than 8 hours of sleep (getting 5 or 6 hours of sleep is my usual), but 2 hours was apparently not enough. I spent the next day sleeping in my hotel room instead of exploring Milwaukee like I originally intended to. I was fully recovered the next day though. Looking back there are things I probably could do to make things better (neck pillow, Dramamine, change into summer time clothes, etc.). I know the only way to find out is to try it again, but I don't know if I want to take the risk or not. I didn't have a seatmate when I took my trip, but I know I may not be so lucky next time and will have to deal with the awkwardness of sleeping next to a stranger.

I would love to be able to do coach because it is so much cheaper than a sleeper and I like the cafe car food. I also like that Amtrak (depending on the city in question) drops you off in the downtown area instead of the outskirts like airplanes do. Don't have to deal with the airline luggage restrictions and TSA stuff with Amtrak either. And of course, much better scenery than flying.

I have done both coach and the sleeper, but now that the sleeper prices are so high, I'll be going back to coach. I thought I had solved all my sleeping upright issues, but found a new one the last time I did coach: I kept slipping down off the seat. I guess my clothes were too slippery, so I'll have to experiment with different fabrics to prevent that.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I have done both coach and the sleeper, but now that the sleeper prices are so high, I'll be going back to coach. I thought I had solved all my sleeping upright issues, but found a new one the last time I did coach: I kept slipping down off the seat. I guess my clothes were too slippery, so I'll have to experiment with different fabrics to prevent that.

It really helps if you have something behind your back to provide support and a neck pillow.

 

[neroden]

The Amtrak audited corporate account is as good as any other company's corporate accounts, all of which probably leave something to be desired in detaild disclosures of capital cost allocations to each individual year. There is no reason to believe that there is huge hanky panky there in the Amtrak account. So their overall top and bottom line are probably not too far off.

Yes, the overall sum-total-for-Amtrak numbers are OK. It's the allocation to individual routes which is nonsense. It's used as the basis of extremely bad business decisions.

I consider it equivalent to the Milwaukee Road's historical misallocation of costs which made them abandon the only profitable part of their business (because they thought it was unprofitable) while keeping the unprofitable part (because they thought it was profitable).

The proper basis for business decisions, as they will tell you in any business school, is marginal costs (aka avoidable costs) and marginal revenues -- but Amtrak management is looking at these hinky nonsense-based "allocated costs" and seems to not be estimating marginal revenues at all. Just incompetent.

Because railroads are an economies-of-scale business, the best bang-for-the-buck is generally, in this order:
(1) filling seats or raising prices at same occupancy levels on existing train (raising demand -- for instance, with amenities or by publishing the timetables as advertising)
(2) lengthening existing train (accomodating raised demand)
(3) more trains per day on the same route (accomodating and generating demand)
(4) more trains sharing a trunk route with branches (accomodating and generating demand)
(Though the vital importance of connecting train routes to one another should also be mentioned.)

Allocated-cost accounting fails to account for any of these key things and so is worse than useless from a business-decision point of view. The fact that Amtrak's allocated-cost accounting is also actual garbage with clear errors is an extra problem on top of that.

The massive demand for Amtrak despite Amtrak's aggressive mismanagement and attempts to drive away customers, and despite the freight railroads' sabotage of on-time performance, shows how huge the underlying demand for passenger rail in the US is.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Basically, I had trouble sleeping. Part of this was due to the seats having no neck support, part of it being me not used to sleeping sitting up, part of it was due to the car being hot (this trip happened in late October 2018, so the heat was jacked up), and part of it was due to me getting motion sick about 7-8 hours into the journey. I only got about 2 hours of sleep if you paste all my attempts at sleep together. I can function on less than 8 hours of sleep (getting 5 or 6 hours of sleep is my usual), but 2 hours was apparently not enough. I spent the next day sleeping in my hotel room instead of exploring Milwaukee like I originally intended to. I was fully recovered the next day though. Looking back there are things I probably could do to make things better (neck pillow, Dramamine, change into summer time clothes, etc.). I know the only way to find out is to try it again, but I don't know if I want to take the risk or not. I didn't have a seatmate when I took my trip, but I know I may not be so lucky next time and will have to deal with the awkwardness of sleeping next to a stranger.

I would love to be able to do coach because it is so much cheaper than a sleeper and I like the cafe car food. I also like that Amtrak (depending on the city in question) drops you off in the downtown area instead of the outskirts like airplanes do. Don't have to deal with the airline luggage restrictions and TSA stuff with Amtrak either. And of course, much better scenery than flying.

I find it's generally too warm including in the sleepers. I like it 70 F but Amtrak seems to set the temp around 75 F or higher

 

[railiner]

I find it's generally too warm including in the sleepers. I like it 70 F but Amtrak seems to set the temp around 75 F or higher

Probably because most of Amtrak's long distance passenger's tend to be senior's, who seem more sensitive to lower temps, I would guess.
But as they say, you can always add layer(s) of clothing if cold, but can't do much about it being too warm...

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Probably because most of Amtrak's long distance passenger's tend to be senior's, who seem more sensitive to lower temps, I would guess.
But as they say, you can always add layer(s) of clothing if cold, but can't do much about it being too warm...

Right about having to suffer if it's too warm. I find many trains in the US overheated but I haven't found that to be nearly so much the case in Europe. I think Americans overheat their homes, offices and public places. It's not healthy. When I see photos of my grandfather at work in a wool suit with a vest I suspect the office was not heated the way most are nowadays.

 

[caravanman]

There have been a lot of A.U. members recently complaining about the high costs of sleeper accommodations, together with the poor meals on offer...

My favourite ride is the Zephyr, and just for fun I checked some fares for later in the year.

I find that a roomette from Chicago to Sacramento is $640 in October, and only $555 in December.

I think those are comparable fares to a few years ago, or is my old age playing tricks on my memory?

 

[Sidney]

The only LD routes that have skyrocketed are the SW Chief and The Texas Eagle to LA. Why?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Supply and demand! Lots of folks want to go to LA and Southern California.

Same thing happens on the Florida Trains in the Winter ( directional in their cases)and the Zephyr and Empire Builder in the Summer.

I agree that the Texas Eagle and Chief Rooms have become to Pricey for what's on offer, I can't afford them, but folks are riding, so that's the way it is!

 

[Sidney]

Yeah,I know,but I can see if the price went up 50 to $75 not$280 for a roomette. You can still find $623 low buckets going East,but none from Chicago. Even booking eleven months out the fares are over $1000. Too rich for my blood. A way to save $300 from Chicago to LA is to take the Zephyr to Sacramento and a San Jouquian to Bakersfield and a bus to LA. Little bit inconvenient but quite a saving.

 

[caravanman]

A lot depends on the dates... Chicago to LA:

Looking once again in December, Tuesday 7th to be accurate, the Texas Eagle roomettes are $899, but if you are prepared to change trains in San Antonio, a fare of $605 is available. Not great to have 5 hours wait during the night, but a good saving.

 

[niemi24s]

The only LD routes that have skyrocketed are the SW Chief and The Texas Eagle to LA. Why?

If you search long enough you'll find they can ALL skyrocket because, for Roomettes at least, the ratio between high and low bucket fares ranges from 1.6 to 2.2.

 

[zephyr17]

If you search long enough you'll find they can ALL skyrocket because, for Roomettes at least, the ratio between high and low bucket fares ranges from 1.6 to 2.2.

Low bucket roomette accommodation charge LAX-CHI on the SW Chief is about $100 higher than low bucket on the Builder SEA-CHI per your research. So the SW Chief is notably more expensive in the same yield management bucket. But that isn't a new development, that differential has been present for years.

The trip duration is roughly equivalent.

 

[Sidney]

A lot depends on the dates... Chicago to LA:

Looking once again in December, Tuesday 7th to be accurate, the Texas Eagle roomettes are $899, but if you are prepared to change trains in San Antonio, a fare of $605 is available. Not great to have 5 hours wait during the night, but a good saving.

That $605 fare is Coach to SAS and roomette to LA.

 

[fillyjonk]

I had a roomette on the TE for March 2020, obviously that trip never happened for me. I got a voucher and held on to it, hoping both my mom and I would be fully vaccinated before the voucher expired. I used it just recently to get my tickets for Tuesday's trip, I paid $22 more for the roommette (both ways, $22 total increase) for May 2021 over March 2020.

I suspect it depends a LOT on when you are traveling, maybe I'd have seen more of a difference if my original ticket weren't for Spring Break Time.

 

[caravanman]

That $605 fare is Coach to SAS and roomette to LA.

Gosh, you are quite right! How do Amtrak get away with a column on their booking page that says "Rooms" yet still the unwary traveller ends up getting a coach seat for half the journey? Thats bad!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Gosh, you are quite right! How do Amtrak get away with a column on their booking page that says "Rooms" yet still the unwary traveller ends up getting a coach seat for half the journey? Thats bad!

Bait and Switch!!!

 

[zephyr17]

Amtrak's website is awful and gets worse with every modification.

With that said, you have to select "choose rooms" individually for each train in the presented itinerary. Coach is defaulted on all trains automatically.

However, I actually see the point of selecting accommodation by train. Quite a few people prefer to use coach for shorter runs, even overnight. For example, going in coach from New York to Chicago and a sleeper from Chicago to the West Coast. Which makes sense, especially considering the generally outrageous roomette prices on the Lakeshore. Having that option may make the difference between able to make a trip or having it be unaffordable.

The reservation system sees 21 & 1 as two separate trains on one itinerary, no different than, say, 49 and 7. The roomette prices on 421 (the reservation system's version of the through Chicago-LA cars) were too high, so he chose a different option.

That the UI could be better is indisputable, though.

 

[Sidney]

I had a roomette on the TE for March 2020, obviously that trip never happened for me. I got a voucher and held on to it, hoping both my mom and I would be fully vaccinated before the voucher expired. I used it just recently to get my tickets for Tuesday's trip, I paid $22 more for the roommette (both ways, $22 total increase) for May 2021 over March 2020.

I suspect it depends a LOT on when you are traveling, maybe I'd have seen more of a difference if my original ticket weren't for Spring Break Time.

The fares on the Texas Eagle jumped $270 two weeks ago. From.Chi to Lax it is now $899. It was $623. Quite a steep hike.

 

[zephyr17]

The fares on the Texas Eagle jumped $270 two weeks ago. From.Chi to Lax it is now $899. It was $623. Quite a steep hike.

Yield management bucket jump, not a general fare jump. Those happen all the time, and are (or should be) demand driven. Fares move into higher buckets as inventory is sold, or Amtrak reallocates inventory in each bucket for anticipated demand. Goes the other way if anticipated demand doesn't materialize.

Per Niemi24's chart, it went from low bucket to the middle bucket. Could go to high bucket $1185.

 

[Sidney]

$899 is now low bucket on the Eagle from Chi to Lax.

 

[zephyr17]

$899 is now low bucket on the Eagle from Chi to Lax.

Well, I will not discount the possibility they have decided not to release any inventory in the lowest two buckets, especially since there is only one through sleeper and several intermediate points that generate demand on 421/422. They have declined to offer low buckets at all many times in the past on several trains, well in advance, if they anticipate high demand. They also have largely stopped putting out the inventory initially in the lowest bucket in many cases.

Things are pretty disrupted now. With other trains just coming off three days a week and post-COVID travel demand possibly high. It could be that Amtrak's yield management folks have decided to put the limited inventory on 421/422 starting in the middle bucket for the time being as they see how the situation develops.

If memory serves, low bucket on the through Texas Eagle cars was always a lot rarer than on either the Sunset or the San Antonio TE cars, or the SW Chief.

Since it lined up precisely with the existing middle bucket (general fare increases tend not to do that, and are also not so extreme) and no other trains appear to have had such a shift, I still contend it is probably an inventory management move. While in the short term that amounts to the same thing as a straight up increase, in the longer term it allows for the possibility that they'll reopen the lower buckets if anticipated demand doesn't develop at the current price point.

I would tend to believe it an actual bucket shift if there is a day the price is higher than the $1185 of the current high bucket.

I will say at that price and without the SSL, I won't be filling my Texas Eagle gap on my Amtrak long distance experiences any time soon.

 

[niemi24s]

$899 is now low bucket on the Eagle from Chi to Lax.

Your terminology is lacking. $899 is not low bucket but no doubt the lowest bucket you've seen offered on a limited search.

Low bucket is, in reality, the $623 which you previously mentioned. You must realize that the bucket that's offered can change from day to day - or even every day. Here's an example from an AnSnag search. . .


. . .showing each of the five buckets during a five day period. No reason at all to get your shorts in a wad when fares double from one search to the next. It happens all the time - especially for Roomettes. On the other hand I've seen Family Bedrooms stay at high bucket for weeks on end.