Amtrak RFP for new/rebuilt locomotives

[twropr]

Amtrak just issued a press release advising that an RFP has been issued for purchase or rebuilding of 50-75 diesel-electric locomotives to replace the P42.

Would this be necessary if the rebuild program at Beech Grove had continued past ?2009 or whenever it was discontinued?

Andy

 

[frequentflyer]

So one has to replace 220 or so locomotives and one orders 50-75 to start out. This just reaffirms for me Anderson is serious about DMU/EMUs. And the states ordering locomotives lessens the need for Amtrak to order as many.

 

[keelhauled]

For the record, the press release is here.

 

[jis]

Looking for AC drive rebuilds or AC drive new units. So even if rebuilt the rebuilt P-4x will have completely new power drive. Interesting.

 

[CraigDK]

So one has to replace 220 or so locomotives and one orders 50-75 to start out. This just reaffirms for me Anderson is serious about DMU/EMUs. And the states ordering locomotives lessens the need for Amtrak to order as many.

Or they only have enough money to buy 50-75 initially (and the press release mentions additional options).

 

[keelhauled]

Hard to see how a rebuild would make sense under those conditions, assuming they're serious about reducing emissions. If they're redoing the entire electrical drive the only advantage would seem to be grandfathering in Tier 0 emissions standards, unless the cost difference is huge, and for once there doesn't seem to be a deficit of more or less off the shelf passenger diesels available, so one would think that new-build cost wouldn't be outrageous.

 

[frequentflyer]

Looking for AC drive rebuilds or AC drive new units. So even if rebuilt the rebuilt P-4x will have completely new power drive. Interesting.

Well Delta CEO Anderson kept the ex NWA 50+ year old DC-9s flying for Delta. Why not 20 year old Genesis? Though I wander about the frames of some of those units.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Of course the other POV could be: Why does Amtrak need a bunch of diesels if they discontinue the LD trains and most of the states own their own equipment that Amtrak operates.

 

[frequentflyer]

Hard to see how a rebuild would make sense under those conditions, assuming they're serious about reducing emissions. If they're redoing the entire electrical drive the only advantage would seem to be grandfathering in Tier 0 emissions standards, unless the cost difference is huge, and for once there doesn't seem to be a deficit of more or less off the shelf passenger diesels available, so one would think that new-build cost wouldn't be outrageous.

Autotrain?

 

[keelhauled]

Autotrain?

Sorry, I don't follow.

Though I wander about the frames of some of those units.

Technically they don't have frames in the traditional sense, being of monocoque design with load bearing carbodies. Supposedly that makes some repair (and rebuild) more difficult.

 

[jis]

I was just wondering what the value of reusing the body shell and trucks is since apparently both the prime mover and the electric drive is projected to be replaced.

But note that the choice is left to the responders to the RFP. Whatever they deem feasible and cheaper to meet the operational requirements which are presumably spelled out in greater detail in the actual RFP.

 

[daybeers]

For the record, the press release is here.

And the actual RFP is here.

 

[fredmcain]

Has everybody seen this? This doesn't sound to me like Anderson's getting ready to ditch the national long-distance system. But we could SURE use new cars, too!

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/amtrak/news/Amtrak-to-replace-rebuild-national-network-locomotive-fleet--54800?email=fredmcain2003@yahoo.com&utm_medium=email&utm_source=prdailynews&utm_campaign=prdailynews6/4/2018

has issued a request for proposals seeking to rebuild its current diesel fleet or purchase a minimum of 50 to 75 next-generation locomotives.

The effort is aimed at replacing Amtrak's aging national network diesel locomotive fleet used on long distance and some state-supported routes, Amtrak officials said in a press release.

"We expect that any new, state-of-the art locomotive will offer improved reliability, a smoother ride, improved safety features and make major contributions towards lowering emissions and we'll also consider how rebuilding options of the current fleet could achieve these goals," said Amtrak President and Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson.

The rebuilt or new locomotives will primarily replace Amtrak's P40 and P42 locomotives, some of which have been in service for more than 25 years. As part of the contract, Amtrak also seeks a multiyear maintenance agreement that would include technical support, spares, supplies and services.

Of late, Amtrak has been making changes to improve the rider experience. Examples of those improvements include refreshed trains, new fare structures, improved on-time performance, enhanced Wi-Fi connectivity, upgraded facilities and expanded onboard experience options, Amtrak officials said.

Additionally, the new or rebuilt locomotives are part of the railroad's long-term upgrades, which include new Acela trainsets, ongoing improvements at New York Penn Station and the new Moynihan Train Hall and further development of stations in Chicago, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., they said.

 

[railiner]

Interesting...I am just trying to figure out how a new locomotive will offer a "smoother ride" for anyone other than its engineer? I suppose if the engineer gets a smoother ride, they in turn will operate the train more smoothly?

 

[chrsjrcj]

The same way eliminating hot meals gives passengers a better experience on overnight trains.

 

[jis]

Anderson is getting rid of LD service only in the feverish imagination of some. He and his staff have repeatedly stated that they are not getting rid of them. And yet some here have used a huge amount of imagination and ingenuity tot ry to parse what they said to mean that they don't really mean what they say, and have at least one obscure way of interpreting it to mean that there is a possibility that LD network will be taken apart and therefore that is what they will do.

 

[railiner]

Anderson is getting rid of LD service only in the feverish imagination of some. He and his staff have repeatedly stated that they are not getting rid of them. And yet some here have used a huge amount of imagination and ingenuity tot ry to parse what they said to mean that they don't really mean what they say, and have at least one obscure way of interpreting it to mean that there is a possibility that LD network will be taken apart and therefore that is what they will do.

Huh?

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/204034-i-know-you-think-you-understand-what-you-thought

 

[fredmcain]

Anderson is getting rid of LD service only in the feverish imagination of some. He and his staff have repeatedly stated that they are not getting rid of them. And yet some here have used a huge amount of imagination and ingenuity tot ry to parse what they said to mean that they don't really mean what they say, and have at least one obscure way of interpreting it to mean that there is a possibility that LD network will be taken apart and therefore that is what they will do.

I personally like the way Fred Frailey opined in the most recent issue of TRAINS Magazine. He mentioned that Anderson is partly at fault for this for not laying out what his vision for Amtrak's future is. I reluctantly agree that he might not be the bogeyman that a lot of people think he is right now.

​Time will tell

 

[cirdan]

Interesting...I am just trying to figure out how a new locomotive will offer a "smoother ride" for anyone other than its engineer? I suppose if the engineer gets a smoother ride, they in turn will operate the train more smoothly?

Maybe fewer fumes entering the passenger cars, less noise.

Maybe even a locomotive that magically fixes the tracks so the passenger cars that follow have a smother ride.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Anderson said that restoring the Pioneer and Sunset East does not make financial sense. Apply the logic to the rest of the money losing LD network, and it is pretty easy to understand how people reach that conclusion.

 

[jis]

So because he stated the obvious about reinstating Pioneer and Sunset East, which is exactly what the likes of neroden have analyzed and stated over and over here, implies that he will get rid of other trains? Bizarre logic there. Specially when he has also repeatedly said that he is not getting rid of the national network. people will imagine whatever they want to and then try to find little bits of statement that fit that imagination and ignore everything else I guess.

The big difference is that money has been appropriated to keep the current national network running as is, and no money has been appropriated for running the Pioneer. Some money has recently been appropriated for the NOL - JAX - ORL service and he has said he will work with the states on that service.

Look, I don't like several thing that he is doing, and some of the ways in which he operates. but it is a huge step from that to completely ignoring facts and dumping on him on everything. Do I wish that he was more enthusiastic about the LD network. Of course. But in my reckoning it is hard to argue against focusing on corridors while keeping the current LD network running as is. Why would he even talk about replacing the Superliner fleet if he was going to kill the LD network? Why would he acquire diesels that are primarily for use on the LD network if his intention was to kill it?

 

[cpotisch]

Seems like this is already being discussed here.

 

[jis]

Hard to see how a rebuild would make sense under those conditions, assuming they're serious about reducing emissions. If they're redoing the entire electrical drive the only advantage would seem to be grandfathering in Tier 0 emissions standards, unless the cost difference is huge, and for once there doesn't seem to be a deficit of more or less off the shelf passenger diesels available, so one would think that new-build cost wouldn't be outrageous.

Autotrain?

Why do you believe Autotrain cannot be operated using SC-44s? could you provide a credible citation in support of your fears?

 

[frequentflyer]

Hard to see how a rebuild would make sense under those conditions, assuming they're serious about reducing emissions. If they're redoing the entire electrical drive the only advantage would seem to be grandfathering in Tier 0 emissions standards, unless the cost difference is huge, and for once there doesn't seem to be a deficit of more or less off the shelf passenger diesels available, so one would think that new-build cost wouldn't be outrageous.

Autotrain?

Why do you believe Autotrain cannot be operated using SC-44s? could you provide a credible citation in support of your fears?

I am sure the Chargers with 4K hp and AC traction motors could handle Autotrain, but doesn't the P40s have a modified braking system that makes handling a longer train easier? Using thoroughbreds as it were instead of quarter horses.

 

[RPC]

I was just wondering what the value of reusing the body shell and trucks is since apparently both the prime mover and the electric drive is projected to be replaced.

I believe that a "rebuild" only has to meet the environmental regulations in effect at the time of original manufacture.