Amtrak Siemens Charger Locomotive (SC44, ALC42, ALC42E) (2Q 2024)

[Cal]

It main assertion is that the problem with the new equipment isn’t with the manufacturers but with the receiving railroads.

This has been talked about here on AU multiple times before. I believe other railroads have made Maintenance contracts with Siemens for their equipment, but Amtrak hasn't, which could be a contributing factor.

 

[Tom C]

This has been talked about here on AU multiple times before. I believe other railroads have made Maintenance contracts with Siemens for their equipment, but Amtrak hasn't, which could be a contributing factor.

That isn’t correct. Amtrak does for the units they own. The state owned equipment does not. This video is pure railfan speculation and is simply a compilation of all the common rumors and speculation on railfan boards and presenting it in a video and includes very little actual evidence to support this assertion.

While I am not implying that Amtrak’s practices are perfect, Siemens has had to make a plethora of software and field modifications to address design issues since the ALC-42 units have entered service and the reliability trend of ALC-42 units has trended up since initial delivery - not down which one would expect if maintenance was the culprit. The bottom line is these guys really don’t know what they’re talking about but think they do because they read Train Orders and railfan social media groups.

The bottom line of this video is the typical foamer narrative - organizations like Amtrak should be buying and rebuilding older equipment because it is simpler (in reality it’s because that’s what railfans would like because they prefer the traditional EMD/GE look of freight power and because well old and traditional good new bad.) You can’t just rebuild old stuff forever and federal rules are pushing tier IV for new power.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Siemens Mobility is GROWING and seeking to fill 2 NEW Additional Mechanical Desk Engineer positions in the Wilmington, Delaware facility. This job entails direct support in fleet monitoring and maintenance planning for the Siemens Locomotives and duties to support Siemens Customer Service. The Mechanical Desk Engineer also provides technical oversight to the contractual depots and administrative services to the Siemens Reliability and Service Managers. This position requires on-site attendance in Wilmington, Delaware and works a day shift to include weekends and holidays. Individuals must have flexibility to work all shifts.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

A lot of railfans also overlook the fact that the Genesis locomotives also had their fair share of issues. Often being paired up with F40s for a number of years, before the software issues they had were addressed. Anyone thinking Siemens isn't doing enough upgrades to make the ALC-42s reliable are simply foolish and impatient.

The same individuals are also quick to point at Via Rail a lot. Ignoring the fact that Via Rail has to rebuilt it's equipment out of necessity, not because they want too. Amtrak's maintenance practices may leave a lot to be desired, but they're still able to put out trains on the tracks.

 

[Tom C]

VIA is also having issues with its new trainsets so it’s not just Amtrak. It’s great that Brightline is able to do what they do but they also have a closed system that allows them to manicure their equipment in the way they do. There May some lessons that are applicable to VIA and Amtrak from their approach but in practical terms a facility like what Brightline has in Florida isn’t exactly practical at every turnaround point on the Amtrak network some that see only one train a day.

 

[alanh]

A lot of railfans also overlook the fact that the Genesis locomotives also had their fair share of issues. Often being paired up with F40s for a number of years, before the software issues they had were addressed. Anyone thinking Siemens isn't doing enough upgrades to make the ALC-42s reliable are simply foolish and impatient.

The same individuals are also quick to point at Via Rail a lot. Ignoring the fact that Via Rail has to rebuilt it's equipment out of necessity, not because they want too. Amtrak's maintenance practices may leave a lot to be desired, but they're still able to put out trains on the tracks.

I was going to bring that up: initially they were having to reboot the Genesis locomotives constantly.

Mechanical equipment is heavily software dependent now, but the software quality has consistently been terrible. I don't know what particular problems the Chargers are having but I'll bet the fixes involve a USB stick more often than a wrench.

 

[Tom C]

I heard an anecdotal report from someone on the internet that eventually GE gave Amtrak more access to the software after prodding which helped reduce en route service interruptions. The same person stated that Amtrak has been pushing to get more software access to the Chargers but Siemens has been resistant. Take it anecdotal as I don’t have any substantiated backup beyond that report but figured it was relevant to the conversation and at least seems feasible.

 

[GDRRiley]

This has been talked about here on AU multiple times before. I believe other railroads have made Maintenance contracts with Siemens for their equipment, but Amtrak hasn't, which could be a contributing factor.

ALC-42 have one and SC-44 are getting them likely after or as part of their 8 year major overhaul.

 

[Cal]

ALC-42 have one

Oh, and they've still been somewhat unreliable on the Builder right?

 

[GDRRiley]

Oh, and they've still been somewhat unreliable on the Builder right?

There were problems with PTC (not Siemens fault), the QSK95 engine and its directly related systems (most if not all of that was outsourced to Cummins) and dynamic brake grids in the first winter but much of that was sorted out in the last year.

 

[west point]

Quick note. We cannot compare Brightline to Amtrak. The QSK engines on Brightline are not operated the same way as Amtrak. Brightline on a trip from MIA to Orlando may only go to idle for 10 times. How many times will Amtrak go to idle from Orlando to MIA? Brightline probably has long runs at a steady throttle setting. As well with 2 locos the max RPMs on Brightline are probably very limited. Maybe only when accelerating out of stations and the Cocoa curve.

If the video is correct about long idle time then the Airos will need to have ground power at lay over locations where possible.

 

[Lcon]

Oh, and they've still been somewhat unreliable on the Builder right?

Let me point out that it’s not exactly a buyer’s market when it comes to passenger locomotives in the US/Canada.
Stadler shows no signs of importing anything but MPUs. They have locomotives that could but only in theory.
GE hasn’t made a passenger locomotive since the Genesis. With no evidence of development of new product.
CRRC given the political climate is a hot potato. Even if they continue subway construction I doubt they would or could import any passenger rated locomotives that meet tier 4.
Kawasaki seems content with subway trains as well.
Brookville, Kansas and the majority of the smaller makers only serve freight and switching.

• Alstom has the ALP45DP but only NJT and Exo uses those, not sure if they meet Tier 4. (Wikipedia claims they do but Wikipedia is like Public television. Always asking for money, entertaining but sometimes very questionable on facts) Alstom have their own reputation issues as a bonus!
• EMD F125 Spirit only seems like it was designed for Metrolink. Kinda sad as I think it’s a sharp looking loco kinda like a modernized E unit. Again with the reliability issues in Metrolink service.
• Wabtec doesn’t list the MPxpress on it marketing materials. Only the last generation the MP54AC was tier 4. With no evidence of continued sales that’s a dead end.
• Siemens Charger, last man standing. Unless someone else jumps in or these are actually still in production. Siemens Charger isn’t a “Somewhat unreliable builder” it’s the only builder which is why its order books so full.

 

[GDRRiley]

Let me point out that it’s not exactly a buyer’s market when it comes to passenger locomotives in the US/Canada.
Stadler shows no signs of importing anything but MPUs. They have locomotives that could but only in theory.

I know California asked Stadler about a Hydrogen loco and they refused to entertain the idea. Not sure how the Stadler Progress rail agreement works around the F125 or selling competing locos to it.

• Alstom has the ALP45DP but only NJT and Exo uses those, not sure if they meet Tier 4. (Wikipedia claims they do but Wikipedia is like Public television. Always asking for money, entertaining but sometimes very questionable on facts) Alstom have their own reputation issues as a bonus!

Any built after 2015 have to meet T4

 

[Cal]

“Somewhat unreliable builder”

I meant it's been reliable on the Empire Builder, not that the builder is unreliable. My bad for not being clear.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Stadler shows no signs of importing anything but MPUs. They have locomotives that could but only in theory.

Stadler's locomotives are built with EMD and Caterpillar engines, the most recent orders mostly use Caterpillar engines very similar to those in the F125. Stadler likely sees a locomotive market that is largely monopolized and the locomotive functionally closest to theirs isn't selling. Not a very compelling market. Likely the only way they'll enter the locomotive market in the US is if they win a contract for whole trainsets like the Siemens Airo where they are somehow forced to preclude Multiple Units.

GE hasn’t made a passenger locomotive since the Genesis. With no evidence of development of new product.

Since GE is now part of Wabtec any efforts will likely happen under the Wabtec brand.

EMD F125 Spirit only seems like it was designed for Metrolink. Kinda sad as I think it’s a sharp looking loco kinda like a modernized E unit. Again with the reliability issues in Metrolink service.

The F125 was designed for Amtrak, to compete in the procurement that ended up going to the Charger. There's a reason that NEC clearance is listed in the spec sheet. You can bet the farm that they'll try to sell it to VIA for their LD order.