Amtrak train with GOP congressional members hits truck (1/31/18)

[PaulM]

Many states want to increase the CDL licencing standards, but the trucking industry is already hurting so bad they can't without hurting the general public with reduced inventories or major price increases to cover major wage increases.

Just another consequence of the Wal-mart syndrome. I'm not bashing Wal-mart here, merely the mentality of only being willing to pay the lowest up-front price without considering the long term costs or risks.

 

[John Bobinyec]

51(4) is canceled for tomorrow. Is this fallout from this incident, or something else?

jb

 

[AmtrakBlue]

51(4) is canceled for tomorrow. Is this fallout from this incident, or something else?

jb

Looks to be just cancelled north of WAS. That would be because they used superliners for 50 which terminated at WAS and I guess those are going back to CI on 51. They list NERs and other trains for making the connection in WAS.

 

[Carolina Special]

A Voice, a couple of decades ago we didn’t have smart phones and Microsoft Windows was going to rule computing forever. Twenty years before that we didn’t have PCs and IBM mainframes were to going to rule.

Never underestimate the power of technology to change things over a period of decades, at least since 1800. We may not be able to correctly predict how the change will come: I proved that myself in the early 1990s when I was briefly involved with TV Answer for interactive data instead of that Internet stuff, which eventually got adopted by the cell carriers (He chose...poorly).

But the change will happen. Gradually, not all at one time, because there will be a lot of old vehicles out on the roads and you have to build up the 50.1% political backing to push it through. Like the history of tobacco taxes, and what is now happening with soda and coffee.

Government loves the idea of self driving vehicles because it means more control. Great for law enforcement. Shared vehicles instead of personal ownership so less cars on the roads, meaning lower road maintenance and lower insurance rates for Geico. It will happen.

I actually don’t like the lack of privacy implications, but have to acknowledge the inevitability.

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[grover5995]

Just a cameo, Third Rail. I would note that the solution for roads and highways is coming. Before too long, we’ll have self-driving cars. And companies, not just governments, seem eager to fund these. At some point shortly after that, driving your own car will be outlawed, first on the major highways and then later on the secondary roads. Accident problem solved, except for those poor police departments that rely on tickets for funding. And if the car will drive you there by itself and deal with traffic, who needs to take the train?[emoji4]. .

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Persons like students or those who don't own a car will still need some way to get around even if self-driving cars becomes a reality.

 

[MARC Rider]

Government loves the idea of self driving vehicles because it means more control. Great for law enforcement. Shared vehicles instead of personal ownership so less cars on the roads, meaning lower road maintenance and lower insurance rates for Geico. It will happen.

I actually don’t like the lack of privacy implications, but have to acknowledge the inevitability.

"Shared Vehicles" means that people will need to ride with strangers if they're really serious about getting cars of the roads and getting environmental benefits. I'm not so sure the public is ready for that, because if they were, we'd be living in the golden age of mass transit (which is more or less the same thing). The whole point of the automobile was that you didn't have to share your ride with the riffraff.

"Great for :aw enforcement" means that the autonomous vehicles will be programmed to drive like grandpa on a Sunday drive. I'm not sure that the public is ready for that, either, given all of the aggressive driving I encounter every day. The automakers constantly say that the reason they oppose tough fuel economy rules is because of the trade-off between "performance" (really acceleration) and fuel economy, and they find their customers aren't buying those sluggish high-mpg vehicles. Maybe electric cars might change that, but they're not yet priced for the masses, and who knows if they ever will be.

 

[user 1215]

NTSB suspects malfunctioning signals and crossing gate based on witness interviews.

Well, if they were malfunctioning, they malfunctioned down (which is what they were doing, apparently, previous to this fateful day. The "witnesses" were presumably not present at the time of this exact accident (excepting the three in the truck). The fact is that there is an underpass around a mile away. If you can't see, don't go around the gates. Take the 2 mile detour.

 

[Carolina Special]

To get this a little back on topic. There were media reports that the crossing signals were malfunctioning prior to the collision, which may have contributed. With the gate staying down for extended periods or behaving erratically.

Now the best way for dealing with this personally is probably to turn around and take another route, assuming it is possible with your vehicle.

But is there a standard industry procedure for reporting suspected malfunctioning gates? Or call 911 and hope it gets fixed? How long does the host carrier have to fix these?

I haven’t had any issues with train gates, but a few years ago I did get stuck in my car trying to turn left at a traffic light where all the signals were working except the ones controlling the two left hand turn lanes. And I was in the leftmost lane and couldn’t move. [emoji51]

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[MikefromCrete]

To get this a little back on topic. There were media reports that the crossing signals were malfunctioning prior to the collision, which may have contributed. With the gate staying down for extended periods or behaving erratically.

Now the best way for dealing with this personally is probably to turn around and take another route, assuming it is possible with your vehicle.

But is there a standard industry procedure for reporting suspected malfunctioning gates? Or call 911 and hope it gets fixed? How long does the host carrier have to fix these?

I haven’t had any issues with train gates, but a few years ago I did get stuck in my car trying to turn left at a traffic light where all the signals were working except the ones controlling the two left hand turn lanes. And I was in the leftmost lane and couldn’t move. [emoji51]

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I don't know how it is in Virginia, but around here, there are signs at crossings giving a telephone number for the railroad maintaining the gates. The public is advised to call the number to report a problem. Or you can just call 9-1-1. The 9-1-1 dispatchers should have phone numbers for railroad personnel.

 

[west point]

One problem causing gates to operate random interment is the power company feed having a bad ground. That can be from meter to transformer and even further away. Floating grounds cause havoc on any electronics including your home. Use of power company aluminum wire is always subject to connections not being tight enough. An improper grounded welder close by might also cause problems.

 

[CHamilton]

Truck was on tracks despite gates when struck by Amtrak train: U.S. report

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-train/truck-was-on-tracks-despite-gates-when-struck-by-amtrak-train-u-s-report-idUSKCN1G52DD?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews

 

[Lonestar648]

The fine technicality of it is that the truck entered the crossing where the Railroad has the right of way. A lawyer I know who has some experience in these accidents stated that many judges see that the RR was present prior to the road in most cases, so even though the train physically ran into the truck, in his interpretation of the law the truck was trespassing and ran into the train.

 

[DSS&A]

Amtrak and the freight railroad both need to sue the driver and his employer for damamages and potential lost revenue. That driver should be brought up on multiple charges.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The engine involved has finally made it to BEE. That is where it will likely stay until this is resolved:

Truck driver indicted over fatal wreck with lawmakers' train

Here is a brief "fair use" quote:

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (AP) — A garbage-truck driver who drove into the path of a train carrying Republican members of Congress has been indicted on charges of involuntary manslaughter and driving under the influence, police in Virginia said Friday.

The Jan. 31 collision, just outside of Charlottesville, killed a co-worker of the driver, injured several other people and rattled the lawmakers as they headed to a retreat at The Greenbrier resort in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia.

A grand jury indicted Dana W. Naylor Jr., 31, on one count of involuntary manslaughter and one count of maiming another while driving under the influence, the Albemarle County Police Department said in a statement Friday. It wasn't immediately clear what the alleged intoxicant was. One trash company employee, 28-year-old Christopher Foley, was killed in the collision. A second passenger and several others were injured.

With DUI in the picture, I suppose an indictment would have happened even if this train was occupied by a group of lawmakers on their way to a respite.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Clearly states unknown intoxicant. Simple DWI Alcohol does not need a grand jury to file charges. CDL holder are held to higher standards, or in case of DWI Alcohol lower standards. You 0.08 car driver, me 0.04 CDL holder. Just have a CDL and driving a motorcycle with over 0.04 gets the DWI charge, we dont need to be driving a tractor trailer at the time.

So having lawmakers might make it a high profile case, but even with out them still should of been a criminal charge. The wild card is what was the intoxicant.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I guess this slipped by us.

Father Files $10M Lawsuit Against Train Companies Connected to Amtrak Crash

A brief "fair use" quote:

The lawsuit is against CSX Transportation, who owns the rail track, and Buckingham Branch Railroad, who operates it. Plaintiffs are arguing that the companies knew about problems with the lights and gates at the railroad crossing on Lanetown Road before the crash on January 31.

The lawsuit, which was filed Friday, September 7 claims the gates came down on top of or around the Time Disposal truck.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Not a direct comment on the lawsuit.  However I have grown tired of the lack of engineering in stop lights.  Trucks have a know stopping distance for the speed limited on the road.  Simple math.  Yet we don’t have a required timing for traffic lights on roads.  Each DOT does it own thing.

Travel thur Alabama is a exercise in hard braking.  I now travel at least 15 mph below the speed limit if there a traffic light in sight.  Still powerbraking to stop before entering the intersection as the cars are crossing in front of me.  Setting off my camera g-force sensory at ever light it seems.  Boss can’t yell at me as he can see that I am at reduced speed before the light turns yellow.

Timing, speed limit of the road, and visible of the red lights would be something to look at.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Not a direct comment on the lawsuit.  However I have grown tired of the lack of engineering in stop lights.  Trucks have a know stopping distance for the speed limited on the road.  Simple math.  Yet we don’t have a required timing for traffic lights on roads.  Each DOT does it own thing. Travel thur Alabama is a exercise in hard braking.  I now travel at least 15 mph below the speed limit if there a traffic light in sight.  Still powerbraking to stop before entering the intersection as the cars are crossing in front of me.  Setting off my camera g-force sensory at ever light it seems.  Boss can’t yell at me as he can see that I am at reduced speed before the light turns yellow. Timing, speed limit of the road, and visible of the red lights would be something to look at.

Where I live stoplight timing rarely seems designed to handle approaching traffic in an efficient and practical manner.  On several major thoroughfares the primary traffic flow ends up stopping at every single intersection.  Twelve or even twenty cars slamming on the breaks for at most one or two cars worth of cross traffic, and just as often no cross traffic at all.  Around here traffic light timing has actually gotten shorter over time, probably in a response to poor flow coordination leading to clogged surface streets, but also in areas where municipalities are trying to work around limited tax revenue by promoting additional infractions for red light cameras to catch.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Duplicate post! Opps!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Ditto for Austin and I'm sure All other Texas Cities since most Traffic Engineers in the Lone Star State were trained @ Texas A&M. :giggle:

 

[Thirdrail7]

Truck driver in that incident was just in court on manslaughter charges.  He was found Not Guilty.  Maybe this will be the end of the legal stuff and the equipment can be released for service.

Thank  you for the update. I pulled this from another thread so we can have it in the appropriate thread. Here is a link to the story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/truck-driver-found-not-guilty-in-crash-with-chartered-train/2019/02/28/eb8e55b4-3b5f-11e9-b10b-f05a22e75865_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.91a5c343a88f

A charge of maiming under the influence was dropped after the judge ruled out certain scientific testimony and blood evidence on Tuesday. Albemarle Commonwealth’s Attorney Robert Tracci said the decision made it difficult to maintain the DUI charge. It’s difficult to establish impairment for some substances using toxicological evidence alone, he said.

Amanda Snow, the sole defense witnessed called, testified that she had lived near the crash site for almost three years and the crossing gate arms regularly malfunctioned, sometimes lowering for no reason. Tracci questioned Snow’s account, particularly her claim that she had seen the arms lowered for a “full day.”

With the DUI out of the picture, I suppose it was word against word. I guess the outward facing camera on the engine couldn't pick up the status of the grade crossing gates.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

With the DUI out of the picture, I suppose it was word against word. I guess the outward facing camera on the engine couldn't pick up the status of the grade crossing gates.

More likely the outward facing camera only show the gates down at the time of the accident.  To prove they were working you need to see them come down.  Of course the defense would claim they were going up and down with out cause.  A camera at a house that could see the grade crossing would prove the issue. Then the defense would still the claim the gates had a history of not working correctly would be there argument.

Not going to win, too bad the DWI failed.  That should of been much easier. 

 

[Anderson]

And of course, if a given set of gates wind up with an established reputation for malfunctioning, that is going to make charges about going around the gate touchy even if you can see them going around it.

(The Harpersville Road gates in Newport News had this issue for a bit, resulting in it occasionally turning into a stop sign.)

 

[daybeers]

It's impossible to tell the intoxication level of a person by the level of THC in their bloodstream, so IMO it was correct to throw out the DWI.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

First time I have heard what the intoxication was.  For the recorded a CDL holder the limited is zero percentage of THC. We are regulated by Federal Law.  Banned substance period.  At least with the positive drug test he will not be driving a CDL required truck any time soon.