Amtrak train wreck

[AmtrakWPK]

I will never understand why the crossbars don't come down on BOTH sides of the road.

There aren't any at that crossing.

From one of the quoted news sources:

Hartley Lane crosses the railway without crossing gates or warning lights. The intersection is marked only with signs

and

MDOT installs warning lights or gates based on priority, he said.
The crossing is No. 136 on a list of about 2,300 statewide to get warning lights.

Depending on funding, MDOT adds warning lights to eight to 12 crossings each year.

About 13 trains pass through the Hartley Lane intersection each day, and the speed of the trains varies from 5-40 mph, according to a 2006 Federal Railroad Administration report.

So since there are no lights and no crossing gates at that crossing, as long as the signs were in place, there was no other grade equipment so nothing could have malfunctioned, and if that crossing stays at it's current place of #136 out of 2,300, with an installation rate of, to be optimistic, 12 per year, it will be more than 11 years before that crossing even has warning lights.

The figure of 2,300 crossings without anything but crossing signs, IN THAT STATE ALONE, gives you an idea of the magnitude of the problem. THIS, (the transportation infrastructure of the U.S.) is where we need to be spending hundreds of billions, or trillions, of $$$$, NOT tilting at foreign windmills, IMHO. 2,300 rail crossings with nothing but sawbucks, in just that one state, and Interstate Highway System bridges collapsing into rivers, ought to be a much higher priority for our tax dollars.

 

[ourlouisiana]

From our City of New Orleans Yahoo group:

Crossing has signs only, no active warning devices. Last coach was deadheading to New Orleans and derailed.

Train was initially moved to a small yard in Brookhaven. Main re-opened by 2000 hrs. Train later pulled back to New Orleans.

Host railroad is CN.

Rest is copied directly from group:

The equipment involved in yesterday's CITY OF NEW ORLEANS' collision with a garbage truck near Crystal Springs, MS is headed

back south to N.O. as a hospital train, max authorized speed 35 mph.

AMTK 28 is the lead motor with wrecked & burned P42DC #7 with the rest of the Superliners in tow. It passed me here in Amite

hitting the 844.2 defect detector at 22:17. AMTK # 7 and the first Superliner behind it are burned pretty good.

The last four cars are traveling with all the doors open. I'm guessing to vent out the smoke smell. I followed it to the next town south, and

it looked weird seeing Amtrak running lights out, doors open, with an EOTD on the rear. Even the large Coach Baggage doors were left

open on the last two cars.

I haven't seen a consist for the equipment involved, but AMTK 7 was on the NB "CITY" Sunday, which had two Coach Baggage

cars on the rear.

It was engine #7, Myrle Chitwood the engineer broken knees, had to be extricated by a track foreman who was in the area. There was a minor

fire. Two other Amtrak crew injuries reported, as well as at least 4 passengers.

The rearmost car was a deadhead, and derailed as well.

AND WE ARE GOING leaving nol 19 JUNE !!!!

Donna n Paul Burns Scott, La. BNSFmp149.1 Lafayette Subdivision

Operation Lifesaver Louisiana

 

[MStrain]

There are hundreds of crossings just like this all over Mississippi. Bottom line is that motorists have a responsibility to check both ways before crossing a road over track. The engineers of that P42 no doubt were blowing the horn the required number of times. There are no trees for hundreds of yards in the direction the train was coming from, so there was no excuse...even though garbage truck cabs are probably loud. This was just a case of driver stupidity. IMHO, crossing bars, lights, whistles, horns at crossings are just a courtesy......what we really need is a return to common sense. STOP, LOOK, LISTEN.....LIVE.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If the max speed of the train through that area is 45 MPH, that train is going slower than an automobile on an Interstate highway. I have to suspect that there are some badly designed Interstate highway onramps somewhere that are more dangerous than this grade crossing that lacks any flashing lights.

Consistency is an important thing, though, and I'm not sure I've ever driven over an active railroad at a grade crossing that had no flashing lights. That makes me wonder if I would do the right thing if I ever came to a railroad crossing sign with no flashing lights.

Do the automobiles effectively have a yield sign at this type of railroad crossing?

 

[Walt]

That makes me wonder if I would do the right thing if I ever came to a railroad crossing sign with no flashing lights.
Do the automobiles effectively have a yield sign at this type of railroad crossing?

I have to admit, it happened (well almost happened) to me once. A railroad crossing that I have drove over for years, and never seen a hint of a train. Then, one day, I look over and there is this massive looking engine coming! Yikes!

I think for automobiles, it is simply yield or die.

 

[George Harris]

Consistency is an important thing, though, and I'm not sure I've ever driven over an active railroad at a grade crossing that had no flashing lights. That makes me wonder if I would do the right thing if I ever came to a railroad crossing sign with no flashing lights.
Do the automobiles effectively have a yield sign at this type of railroad crossing?

You have got to be kidding ! ! ! ! You have never driven over a grade crossing with no flashing lights? ?

As others have said, there are still thousands of railroad crossings out there with only a crossbuck and sign. The law and common sense says you treat it like a yield sign. (If in doubt, treat it like a stop sign at an intersection with a high speed road.)

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Most of my driving experience has been in Hawaii and in fairly densely populated parts of eastern Massachusetts. I certainly cannot think of any grade crossings in those areas that I know lack blinking lights.

I suppose if I had an extensive list of grade crossings in the greater Lafayette, IN area with information about which have blinking lights, I could figure out whether I might have driven over one of those. (As I'm thinking about it, I once took a wrong turn that got me into a parking lot at the West Lafayette airport, and there are railroad tracks there, and the crossing leading to the airport may well not have blinking lights.)

I've also driven in some parts of Connecticut and Rhode Island that are fairly densely populated, some parts of western Massachussets that are less densely populated, and driven through several other states largely on Interstate highways. It's possible that I've driven over railroads at grade crossings in Western MA that may lack blinking lights, but my memories really don't have enough detail to determine that with any accuracy.

 

[frj1983]

There are hundreds of crossings just like this all over Mississippi. Bottom line is that motorists have a responsibility to check both ways before crossing a road over track. The engineers of that P42 no doubt were blowing the horn the required number of times. There are no trees for hundreds of yards in the direction the train was coming from, so there was no excuse...even though garbage truck cabs are probably loud. This was just a case of driver stupidity. IMHO, crossing bars, lights, whistles, horns at crossings are just a courtesy......what we really need is a return to common sense. STOP, LOOK, LISTEN.....LIVE.

Indeed,

Having ridden both ways (Chi-NO) in early April, I can confirm that the Engineers blow, and blow, and blow their horns...there is no way, you can't hear them coming, let alone see them coming! That truck driver had to be totally oblivious to miss all that! :angry:

 

[ourlouisiana]

In our Operation Lifesaver presentations several points that we try to make are....

Trains move much faster than they appear to. Trains CAN'T swerve away or stop fast....

You as a driver have the responsibility to be observant when approaching a crossing.

Everyone takes crossings for granted, as it was pointed out, we pass that spot every day for years, never noticed a train until one day....

Train crews DREAD incidents, they know the odds when a vehicle is on the tracks. They do blow the horn !!!

Surprisingly, the garbage truck did inflict a lot of damage to the engine. I don't think I've seen an engine take it like that, but the garbage turck was a mess.

Donna n Paul Burns Scott, La. BNSFmp149.1 Lafayette Subdivision

Operation Lifesaver Louisiana

 

[Chatter163]

http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/1773

 

[Walt]

If that's true,
Why would the sign on the crossing at Downers Grove(IL) Main Street say:

If the gates are malfunctioning call BNSF at (can't remember the number but do remember the sign being there)? Shouldn't the sign then say call Downers Grove Police Department or whatever? Also when Metra has a signal problem on this line, it's always a BNSF Employee working on it!

The owner might not have the personnel or experience to do the maintenance, and subcontracts it out to someone who has.

When the street light outside my house burns out, I call the power company. They don't own the light, but they are the ones who come by with a "cherry picker" and replace the bulb. I assume they then send a bill to the town.

 

[AlanB]

Regarding liability of malfunctioning RR crossing warning equipment, it's my understanding the RR's don't own it, it's the municipality that owns the road that owns and maintains the crossing warning equipment.

If that's true,

Why would the sign on the crossing at Downers Grove(IL) Main Street say:

If the gates are malfunctioning call BNSF at (can't remember the number but do remember the sign being there)? Shouldn't the sign then say call Downers Grove Police Department or whatever? Also when Metra has a signal problem on this line, it's always a BNSF Employee working on it!

To my knowledge, while many states and towns do help to pay for improved safety devices at crossings, it is the railroad that ends up both owning and maintaining said equipment. And the expense for maintaining working gates and lights is considerable.

It is interesting to note however that since they are road warning devices and signs, the RR can't just show up one day and start installing a crossing gate without permission from the DOT that holds jurisdiction over the road in question.

 

[had8ley]

I wonder if this actually has the potential to lead to Amtrak suing the owners of the garbage truck, depending on the amount of damage to the train. I don't think the average automobile driver carries enough insurance to buy a new P42.

Nor re-build one after hitting a loaded garbage truck and any related fire damage. A typical policy might cover the paint job after all the damage is repaired.

 

[PaulElaine]

We were on the CNO from Chi on May 15-16. The horn was almost in constant use as the crossings in that area (North of Brookhaven) seem to come every few thousand feet.

 

[George Harris]

Surprisingly, the garbage truck did inflict a lot of damage to the engine. I don't think I've seen an engine take it like that, but the garbage turck was a mess.

I have heard it said that hitting a garbage truck with a locomotive is the railroad equivalent of hitting a hog with your car. In both cases, you are hitting something that is low and dense. It is more dangerous to hit a pig with your car than to hit a cow or deer with it. Quite a few years ago, that is 25 plus, when Amtrak was running the Turbotrains between Chicago and St. Louis, one hit a garbage truck and the results were much more serious than this collision.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I wonder if this actually has the potential to lead to Amtrak suing the owners of the garbage truck, depending on the amount of damage to the train. I don't think the average automobile driver carries enough insurance to buy a new P42.

Nor re-build one after hitting a loaded garbage truck and any related fire damage. A typical policy might cover the paint job after all the damage is repaired.

Waste Management Industries, Inc. is the largest operator of refuse removal and transport infrastructure in the world. Not only would I think the company's blanket insurance policy big enough to repair or replace a P42, I'd also imagine they could be very easily sued for that cost. Just because your insurance doesn't cover cost of liability does not mean you are not still liable for it!

Also, while quiet zones do not require sounding of horns, could the engineer and/or conductor chose to do so anyway if they saw fit?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If it's a company that big, wouldn't self-insurance make a lot of sense?

I believe in a quiet zone the engineer is allowed to sound the horn if he/she sees something that he/she judges gives him/her reason for concern. I don't think an engineer is really allowed, in theory at least, to sound the horn on every run just because they like hearing the sound of the horn or because they thought that quiet zones should never be allowed in the first place, although I also would be surprised if there's much enforcement of rules against sounding the horn excessively.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'd imagine the same concept that allows "working safely" would allow an engineer to do this as well.

For those who don't know, "Working Safely" is a terminology that refers to rail workers who sit around following every single tiny rule in the book of rules they are supposed to follow, such that they seem to be working but are accomplishing nothing. The train moves 2 inches, the conductor decides its riding wrong, stops the train, and checks the whole consist again. Then the whole thing repeats. 12 hours later, the train has moved a grand total of 10 feet, the conductor outlaws, and the bosses realize whatever battle they were fighting with the gang that made them do that is not going to be won.

Basically, the concept of PR prevents you from disciplining someone who was being extra careful- justified or not.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I imagine if the neighbors were complaining that every single train was blowing its horn in spite of the quiet zone, you'd have some PR problems, too.