Amtrak trains to get 180 day notices after July 1s

[Guest]

Is it just me or has this topic gotten a bit off the orginal topic?  
Perhaps a seperate topic should be started to discuss the politics and leave this one to the 180 day notice stuff.

Just my two cents.

Ok point taken. What 180 day notice items do you wish to discuss?

 

[Chatter163]

The prognosticator in question has, in these waning days before the Day of Reckoning (relatively speaking), begun to realize that he may indeed appear extremely foolish next week and, consequently, has begun to seek a path out of the corner into which he has painted himself on this and the other forum. (The other alternatives were far more unpleasant: Recant and apologize profusely, return with a new screen name, or simply disappear altgogether.) The fact that he is publicly associated with a well-known state pro-rail activist group reflects badly, to a degree, on all concerned.

Moreover, like him, I shall cut and paste these remarks, verbatim, on both forums.

 

[caravanman]

This IS fun! I just love a good chit-chat as they say here in the UK..(or at least they might have said 100 years ago!). I will stop stirring the pot now, just wanted to make clear that I dislike snide comments which link Amtrak's woes to immigration issues, as much as some dislike snide comments against Conservatives.

Ed B)

ps anyone want to talk about religion ? sorry..yes, I did say I would stop!

 

[AlanB]

Now, I've seen some comments on this thread and others that states that Bush hates Amtrak because Amtrak is a threat to his friends in the oil and airline industries.
However, logic does not follow that this would be behind an attack on long-distance trains. Why? Because Amtrak's long-distance trains do not compete with airlines. PERIOD. The only place where Amtrak competes with the airlines is on the northeast corridor. If it was really about protecting the airline interests, the NEC would be the subject of the greatest attacks and lies and misinformation. The long-distance trains as a whole carry a few million passengers a year, which is less than 1% of what the airlines carry. Furthermore, they serve cities that are not served (or not very well served) by airlines. The purpose of the long-distance train is not, never has been, and never will be to compete with the airlines.

Certainly, Bush is no friend of passenger rail. Certainly, he has good friends tied to the oil and airline industries. But that isn't behind the attacks on long-distance trains. I don't know what is, specifically (maybe a dislike for labor unions, with Amtrak being heavily unionized), but it ain't the airlines and oil issue.

Robert,

The simple answer to your question is that killing the NEC outright is probably impossible and political suicide for anyone who tries. Support for Amtrak is simply too widespread within Congress, even though they don't seem inclinded to fund it properly.

However, and this is not meant as a criticizm of her, with Senators like Kay Baily Hutchensen running around saying "It's a national system or no system", in a smart but twisted mind killing off the LD's could and would make some sense. Get rid of the LD's, now it's just the states on the NEC vs. the other 41 states that have no connection to the NEC.

One would hope that the NEC States might still wrangle some support, or would find a way to come together and save the NEC and it probably would be saved. However, even if they do save the NEC, I'd bet that it would become largely commuter traffic. I'm not sure that you'd see service in the areas currently covered only by Amtrak, nor would I expect to see end to end service or even connecting end to end service.

So again, I could see someone sitting there thinking that a direct attack on the NEC won't work, so killing the LD's is the next best way to shut down the NEC or at least Amtrak's part of it, sending all those rider's back to the airlines. Additionally, by killing off Amtrak's part on the corridor, they would then be able to point at that as an example of why we should never attempt any other similar corridors or high speed corridors, like those being at least discussed in California, North Caroline, and Florida.

Finally, let me just say that this post does not constitute an endorsement of Matt's statement that the Amtrak board does indeed intend to shut down any LD's. I'm simply answering the question that Robert asked with one possible explanation for the madness being suggested.

 

[Boxcar]

This IS fun! I just love a good chit-chat as they say here in the UK..(or at least they might have said 100 years ago!). I will stop stirring the pot now, just wanted to make clear that I dislike snide comments which link Amtrak's woes to immigration issues, as much as some dislike snide comments against Conservatives.Ed  B)

ps anyone want to talk about religion ? sorry..yes, I did say I would stop!

I have nothing to say futher on that subject other than the remarks were a little more than snide. The orignal remarks were deleted by the moderator and may have been missed by you.Also, I in no way linked Amtraks woes to immigration. If you wish to futher chit-chat about this, feel free to PM or e-mail me......

Sorry again Forum. I will refrain from futher posting on this subject.

 

[Guest]

I agree with Robert here. The amount of oil used with or without Amtrak is a drop in the bucket, at least as LD train service is concerned. All they would have to do to make up any short fall in profits is to raise the price per gallon a cent or two. I think the reason Bush is so indifferent to Amtrak is due in part to the National debt. He has spent like a drunken sailor and the Debt has skyrocketed and keeps climbing. Now IMHO not all was unnecessary but we all have our own idea as to which were or were not. 9/11, Iraq, Katrina and the other natural disasters in Florida and Mississippi plus aid to other nation's disasters has pushed the debt to new limits.

I think he is simply trying to find things he deems expendable and puts on the chopping block.

This is why it is not a political party, big oil, airline problem. It's as AllanB pointed out, A Pro Amtrack V Anti Amtrak battle.We have to someway

convince Bush that Amtrak is not expendable.

amen to this post.

as for the other issue, i haven't read the post(s) that have the supposed snide remarks that are causing so much debate, so i'm not gonna comment about whether the remark was inappropriate or not(since i've never seen it, and probably never will, as it was deleted). i'll only say that i'm puzzled why someone would even bring up illegal immigration on a thread about 180 day notices, and that it probably was just as well that the remark(s) was/were deleted by a mod.

 

[boratwanksta]

I agree with Robert here. The amount of oil used with or without Amtrak is a  drop in the bucket, at least as LD train service is concerned. All they would have to do to make up any short fall in profits is to raise the price per gallon a cent or two. I think the reason Bush is so indifferent to Amtrak is due in part to the National debt. He has spent like a drunken sailor and the Debt has skyrocketed and keeps climbing. Now IMHO not all was unnecessary but we all have our own idea as to which were or were not.  9/11, Iraq, Katrina and the other natural disasters in  Florida and Mississippi plus aid to other nation's disasters has pushed the debt to new limits.

I think he is simply trying to find things he deems expendable and puts on the chopping block.

This is why it is not a political party, big oil, airline problem. It's as AllanB pointed out, A Pro Amtrack V Anti Amtrak battle.We have to someway

convince Bush that Amtrak is not expendable.

amen to this post.

as for the other issue, i haven't read the post(s) that have the supposed snide remarks that are causing so much debate, so i'm not gonna comment about whether the remark was inappropriate or not(since i've never seen it, and probably never will, as it was deleted). i'll only say that i'm puzzled why someone would even bring up illegal immigration on a thread about 180 day notices, and that it probably was just as well that the remark(s) was/were deleted by a mod.

i posted that btw, just forgot to login.

 

[TC2000]

It seems to be confirmed now that the 180-day rumors are indeed false (no surprise there).

http://www.hammondstar.com/articles/2006/0...tories/0012.txt

Amtrak station staying, officials say

Rumors that the Amtrak train station in Hammond is closing are not true, according to Amtrak spokesperson Marc Magliari.

The rumors may have surfaced from the Internet, Magliari, who is based out of Amtrak's Chicago office, said Tuesday morning.

The hearsay was enough for Mayor Mayson Foster to contact Amtrak's government affairs director, Todd Stennis, who also dispelled the rumors. Foster learned of the gossip through e-mails.

"He assures me he has had contact with the vice president of operations in Chicago and the city of New Orleans is not scheduled for elimination or change in its current schedule," Foster said.

The Amtrak train station, an historic site in downtown Hammond, is located at 404 N.E. Railroad Ave.

- Reported by Heather Crain

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

It seems to be confirmed now that the 180-day rumors are indeed false (no surprise there).

http://www.hammondstar.com/articles/2006/0...tories/0012.txt

Amtrak station staying, officials say

Rumors that the Amtrak train station in Hammond is closing are not true, according to Amtrak spokesperson Marc Magliari.

The rumors may have surfaced from the Internet, Magliari, who is based out of Amtrak's Chicago office, said Tuesday morning.

The hearsay was enough for Mayor Mayson Foster to contact Amtrak's government affairs director, Todd Stennis, who also dispelled the rumors. Foster learned of the gossip through e-mails.

"He assures me he has had contact with the vice president of operations in Chicago and the city of New Orleans is not scheduled for elimination or change in its current schedule," Foster said.

The Amtrak train station, an historic site in downtown Hammond, is located at 404 N.E. Railroad Ave.

- Reported by Heather Crain

Anyone who asks about this issue to any Amtrak MGT is told to lie to whoever asks about issue or they will be fired on the spot this is a perfect exsample of how it is working.

 

[Guest]

This kind of "mis-information" and "speculation" is extremely dangerous, which is confirmed by the Hammond, LA situation. Rumors about the closing of the Hammond station had also prompted various Chamber of Commerce and CVBs in the region to "re-consider" their partnerships with Amtrak.

There is no reason for people to stop discussing how to "Save Our Trains", but there needs to be a very clear tempering of how these messages are presented to the general public and to forums such as this.

The original poster of the 180 day notices needs to re-examine how and when he presents his opinions, theories and so-called facts. He also needs to re-examine his sources and his sources need to re-examine the kind of information they are giving the poster. Yesterday Amtrak issued an internal notice concering Confidentiality of information and it could not have come at a more appropriate time.

July 3rd may come and we may find out there are some changes coming down the track, but I seriously doubt if the original doom and gloom that as much as guaranteed the abolishment of trains 1-8, 58 & 59 and the modification of 19 & 20 will come to be seen as fact.

 

[Guest]

"Anyone who asks about this issue to any Amtrak MGT is told to lie to whoever asks about issue or they will be fired on the spot this is a perfect exsample of how it is working."

Please stop! Will the entire company lie? I doubt it!

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

"Anyone who asks about this issue to any Amtrak MGT is told to lie to whoever asks about issue or they will be fired on the spot this is a perfect exsample of how it is working."
Please stop! Will the entire company lie? I doubt it!

Yes because they are told to or they will be fired on spot end of story just wait and see.

 

[yarrow]

this must be a worse than usual time to work for amtrak. can you imagine working under these conditons of swirling rumor. this also shows how powerless the people are. i've written, at various times, to elected officals about iraq, environmental degredation and amtrak. a lot of good it has done. if the rich and powerful decide to give us a train they will. otherwise the working people of this country will be, as usual, out of luck.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Like i have said before this all can change since the Study is not over until June 30th 2006 none of this information was never to be made public so it could come down to what happened 4 months ago which is it will be stalled because of to much pressure being put on the issue.

This statement alone makes me QUITE skeptical.

I work in transportation, mass transit side, scheduling in fact. If we perform a study, there is always a good bit of time between when the STUDY part ends and when the REPORT is issued based on the study. Even a less comprehensive matter such as checking OTP and ridership on a bus line takes weeks to compile, catalogue, and analyze thoroughly.

If a costing analysis is done, as it certainly would, up to the minute fixed and variable overhead factors would need to be known to properly estimate fare recovery. Items such as crew platform costs, pay to platform ratios, overtime usage and exceptions, fuel expenses, maintenance, station crewing, etc. These sorts of numbers for analysis are not simply readily found in People Magazine.

I don't see how on earth a STUDY that ENDS on Friday could ever result in a complete and detailed analysis with recommendations the very NEXT Monday.

Either you worded this rebuttal wrong, you're getting misled by someone who has no idea of what a data analysis and study project involves, or any other reasons that would be less than polite to express.

 

[TransAtlantic]

"the sky is falling...the sky is falling..."

or perhaps I should say instead,

"wolf!! wolf!!"

get it?

 

[RailFanLNK]

Maybe we could hire Jim Bakker and Oral Roberts to get on tv and say, "if Amtrak doesn't get 1.8 billion by this weekend, the good Lord is going to taketh me away". We could have a yearly Amtrakathon! Instead of Jerry Lewis, the emcee could be Jerry LEE Lewis! Pesonally, I hate to say this, but how bout selling advertising on the side of the trains? I mean, every stadium now has some stupid name attached to it. "The E-Bay Empire Builder", "The Southwest Airlines Chief", "The Zima Zephyr". ...."your train trip has been brought to you by...The Miller Lite Lounge Car"

 

[ATSFNewton]

This kind of "mis-information" and "speculation" is extremely dangerous, which is confirmed by the Hammond, LA situation.  Rumors about the closing of the Hammond station had also prompted various Chamber of Commerce and CVBs in the region to "re-consider" their partnerships with Amtrak.  
There is no reason for people to stop discussing how to "Save Our Trains", but there needs to  be a very clear tempering of how these messages are presented to the general public and to forums such as this.

The original poster of the 180 day notices needs to re-examine how and when he presents his opinions, theories and so-called facts.  He also needs to re-examine his sources and his sources need to re-examine the kind of information they are giving the poster.  Yesterday Amtrak issued an internal notice concering Confidentiality of information and it could not have come at a more appropriate time.

July 3rd may come and we may find out there are some changes coming down the track, but I seriously doubt if the original doom and gloom that as much as guaranteed the abolishment of trains 1-8, 58 & 59 and the modification of 19 & 20 will come to be seen as fact.

I wholeheartedly agree. I've been watching these unsubstantiated claims on these boards for months and I conclude that while pushing such wild speculation may generate a lot of response and discussion, in the end it is NOT helping our cause.

 

[George Harris]

Anyone who does not believe that:

"Anyone who asks about this issue to any Amtrak MGT is told to lie to whoever asks about issue or they will be fired on the spot this is a perfect example of how it is working."

a statement like this can be true has obviously not worked for some of the companies that I have. Not only will they be fired, more than likely they will never work in any management type or professional level job ever again.

No top dog anywhere wants to have any potential whistleblowers around. Someday there may be things happen that, even if basically an honorable person, they would not want to have to explain. Not to mention, that sometimes doing the "right thing" in a situation can leavy you doing something that can be construed as illegal. A lot these things come around with a double whammy. Speciifc instructions as to what the company line is and what is not to be said, along with a don't you even hint that instructions of this nature have ever been given or this or any other subject.

George

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

If the chronic under-funding; the worn out equipment; the (in too many cases) deserted, dilapidated, dirty and dangerous stations; the infrequent schedules; the strange routes; the surely and rude service crews; the self-destructive union work rules; and the stunning delays on the LD routes are not enough; then constant stream of rumors and cry-wolf warnings can do their part to scare away the remaining riders. I remain amazed by activities of the various rail supporters: amazed by how destructive their zealous and emotional activities become for their cause.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Hopefully, we have all contacted our Senators, Congressional Representatives and other officials about maintaining a national rail system under Amtrak. Beyond that, we have to just wait and see what happens. Once 180 day notices come forward on any trains, there will likely be 'trainoff" hearings in major communities along the specific route that can be attended to thwart the actual discontinuance of the train. Since this is an election year, the publicity that many passenger trains will be discontinued could create negative impressions of incumbent candidates. The publicity of such action could actually be good for Amtrak with competing candidates coming up with proposals to improve, not discontinue Amtrak service. What is really needed is a coalition of elected officials both Federal and State presenting a proposal that would provide long term permanant funding for Amtrak and upgrade and expansion of the rail network in the US to provide improved passenger and freight service.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I still think its a hoax and on other board this was said about BNSF-1088 aka Save Our Trains Michigan/S.O.T. Mississippi:

 

I'm late to the party, but I've gotten so ticked off by the BS postings of the "director" of these "groups" on T.O. and on Louisiana Railfan/Modeling Group, I wanted to share the results of a minimal amount of Googling.

 

BNSF1088 says "The way my groups have gotten to be where they are today is from a former Amtrak President who is no longer with the company." I can see why he's no longer with the company, as Save Our Trains Michigan own website shows they have a grand total of FIVE members (including the "director"). As for S.O.T. Mississippi, its website claims no members. Altho I could find no legitimate Miss. rail passenger advocacy organization, Michigan has the Michigan Association of Railroad Passengers, Inc., an honest-to-goodness 501©(3) corporation whose board of directors is larger than the "director's" Michigan membership roster.

 

It's too bad good thread space is taken up with the mad-hatter ramblings of the "director." If anything he says comes to pass, it will only prove the old adage that even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

 

[Guest]

“Dutchrailnut” has captured the spirit of the situation. We need fewer cry-wolf, mad-hatter ramblings, and more passengers willing to spend cash money riding the LD trains, as is, with all the problems: with the dirty toilets; with the delays; with the dirty, nasty dangerous, dilapidated and deserted stations; with the missed connections; with the stupid government meddling, and with the food (what ever people may think of it – I like it) in the diner. I, for one, don’t care a wit about the rumors and even less so about those from the various and sundry “save our trains” organizations whose panic ramblings only scare away potential passengers looking for some sign of stability. Ignore the sky-is-falling noise from the “save-our-trains” crowd and make your reservations. Enjoy the last vestiges of civilized travel – while it lasts.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Oops: double posting; I forgot to "sign-in"

“Dutchrailnut” has captured the spirit of the situation. We need fewer cry-wolf, mad-hatter ramblings, and more passengers willing to spend cash money riding the LD trains, as is, with all the problems: with the dirty toilets; with the delays; with the dirty, nasty dangerous, dilapidated and deserted stations; with the missed connections; with the stupid government meddling, and with the food (what ever people may think of it – I like it) in the diner. I, for one, don’t care a wit about the rumors and even less so about those from the various and sundry “save our trains” organizations whose panic ramblings only scare away potential passengers looking for some sign of stability. Ignore the sky-is-falling noise from the “save-our-trains” crowd and make your reservations. Enjoy the last vestiges of civilized travel – while it lasts.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Sure enough, when I went to Amtrak.com this morning, I was able to uncover the suprising news...

The Westbound Cardinal is only an hour late at Cincinatti! <_<

 

[Guest]

From another board:

For what it's worth:

http://www.hammondstar.com/articles/2006/0...tories/0012.txt

Rumors that the Amtrak train station in Hammond is closing are not true, according to Amtrak spokesperson Marc Magliari.

The rumors may have surfaced from the Internet, Magliari, who is based out of Amtrak's Chicago office, said Tuesday morning.

The hearsay was enough for Mayor Mayson Foster to contact Amtrak's government affairs director, Todd Stennis, who also dispelled the rumors. Foster learned of the gossip through e-mails.

"He assures me he has had contact with the vice president of operations in Chicago and the city of New Orleans is not scheduled for elimination or change in its current schedule," Foster said.