Amtrak video: "We're Becoming a Transportation Powerhouse"

[Stevenz]

the railroad is being run by people who don’t know how to run a railroad.

Maybe. But I think it’s more a case of not caring if it’s a railroad, hamburger chain, or furniture store. They don’t seem to respect the public purpose they are supposed to protect.

 

[MARC Rider]

You know, for years people on this forum have been complaining about Amtrak On Board Service. Now, there's a video showing a senior level executive who is claiming that the company is going to make improving on board a priority, and now we get complaints about how the guy dresses and that maybe improving on board service isn't really a priority. I think some people can't be satisfied with anything, they just have to find a reason for complaining. That said, time will tell whether Amtrak is really serious about improving the on-board experience.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I've never gotten a survey after a LD trip, ever. Ironically, there is much to be learned, I would guess, from passengers who spend hours if not days aboard a LD train. Wonder why they aren't interested in finding out?

I have routinely gotten surveys, but only about good trips—for example, I’ve received several about trips on Northeast Regional 86, which seems to be a consistently well-run train (at least when I’ve taken it).

I also got one about an Acela FC trip that was on time and had an exceptional attendant crew.

But never about bad trips. Maybe they get so many complaints about the bad trips, they don’t need to do a survey?

 

[Septa9739]

I think this is an area where there’s historically been disagreement. Some are very concerned about specific OBS issues, others aren’t. I personally would like to think I’m a centrist. I think the Silver Starvation was at best a mistake. The stingy allocation of cafe food to sleeper passengers on the CONO I think was the same. On the other hand, if I ran a business losing millions a year, fresh florals would not be a priority, and even with the change in Amtrak’s mission, fresh florals are not essential to national public transportation. As someone who really can’t afford sleeper fares with an regularity, I’d much rather hear about clean toilets, enforcing the policy book (modifying where needed) and getting back to basic professionalism than free drink coupons. I also stand by the claim that the biggest obstacles to growth are punctuality, reliability, and frequency, not customer service issues.

 

[Maglev]

You know, for years people on this forum have been complaining about Amtrak On Board Service. Now, there's a video showing a senior level executive who is claiming that the company is going to make improving on board a priority, and now we get complaints about how the guy dresses and that maybe improving on board service isn't really a priority. I think some people can't be satisfied with anything, they just have to find a reason for complaining. That said, time will tell whether Amtrak is really serious about improving the on-board experience.

I just watched the video again, and feel that the claims of the senior level executives are not supported by the experiences reported here on this forum. "Flex with a Flower" (Flex Plus) is not viewed as a "home run." While the whole point of this video is that Amtrak is trying to improve the customer experience and is better than other modes of travel, the fact of the matter is that new trains are reported to have uncomfortable seats.

Lisa Copeland says that improving the customer experience starts with hiring the best people, but I think the problem is that Amtrak is not an attractive employer. It's poorly funded, tracks are bad, equipment is old, and some jobs require being away from home for days at a time, with only a 3' x 7' room for privacy.

Eliot Hamlisch talks about china in the dining car, and I heard at least a couple years ago that china was returning, but there is no sign of it (is it used in Acela first class?).

What I am complaining about is that Amtrak is giving lip service to improving the customer experience, while in fact-as the attire of Eliot Hamlisch demonstrates--things are actually going downhill.

 

[GariYaMoshi]

I think this is an area where there’s historically been disagreement. Some are very concerned about specific OBS issues, others aren’t. I personally would like to think I’m a centrist. I think the Silver Starvation was at best a mistake. The stingy allocation of cafe food to sleeper passengers on the CONO I think was the same. On the other hand, if I ran a business losing millions a year, fresh florals would not be a priority, and even with the change in Amtrak’s mission, fresh florals are not essential to national public transportation. As someone who really can’t afford sleeper fares with an regularity, I’d much rather hear about clean toilets, enforcing the policy book (modifying where needed) and getting back to basic professionalism than free drink coupons. I also stand by the claim that the biggest obstacles to growth are punctuality, reliability, and frequency, not customer service issues.

Thank you for writing this, I completely agree with what you wrote as that was going to be part of my response in this thread. Punctuality, reliability, frequency and I would throw in an additional affordability.

Thinking back on our recent trip, I'm going to focus on the SWC leg. We actually swapped out the family bedroom for the bedroom because we decided that we wanted the in room toilet (who cares about the shower, we never use it). It also turned out to be $121 cheaper than the family bedroom so have a credit to spend on Amtrak. There was about a week between the time we swapped and when the train was departing. Apparently we got the last bedroom in a lower bucket as the bedroom went to $3145 for the LAX - CHI run on the date we were leaving. Even before we left LAX, that option was still available at $3145.

As a long-time accountant/finance wonk, the fact that Amtrak was willing to let a room go vacant at $3145 rather than lowering the price to one that would be sold is unbelievable. Instead of getting something for the room that would be out on the rails no matter what, they let it go vacant for the duration of the trip. In fact, the sleeper part of the train (especially bedrooms) seemed to be fairly empty. Don't know about the coach, I forgot to go over to that side.

There are sunk costs to running the service and failing to maximize the sold capacity of a train quite frankly blows my mind. It's like sending a plane off half sold, airlines aren't doing that anymore.

Rocky Mountaineer should not be seen as a competitor to Amtrak unless Amtrak can vastly improve its rolling stock. But throwing new rolling stock on crappy rails (yes, I'm going back to that) is only going to damage the new stock. I saw that in my younger years when it didn't take long for the new municipal buses to start rattling and coming apart after being driven on the brick streets.

Again - I challenge the executives at Amtrak to ride the rails - all of the routes - and listen to the passengers in transit. Do it anonymously, not stating that you are part of Amtrak. Get honest feedback. Understand the pain points. See the poor state of the various rolling stock. Get the Federal Railroad Administration to put pressure on the freight lines to improve the routes that are being used for passenger rail service.

2001 showed the US the importance of having multiple modes of transportation when the airlines were grounded after 9/11. It is in our national interest to have functional and reliable passenger service. We subsidize road and air transportation to keep them running well, rail needs to get to that point as well.

 

[John Bredin]

I just watched the video again, and feel that the claims of the senior level executives are not supported by the experiences reported here on this forum. "Flex with a Flower" (Flex Plus) is not viewed as a "home run." While the whole point of this video is that Amtrak is trying to improve the customer experience and is better than other modes of travel, the fact of the matter is that new trains are reported to have uncomfortable seats.

Lisa Copeland says that improving the customer experience starts with hiring the best people, but I think the problem is that Amtrak is not an attractive employer. It's poorly funded, tracks are bad, equipment is old, and some jobs require being away from home for days at a time, with only a 3' x 7' room for privacy.

On the first point, I see an Amtrak representative expressly acknowledging that traditional dining is the experience many passengers are looking for, and mentioning Flex Plus as an improvement, not an end point. I don't see what that has to do with Illinois and California buying state-corridor rolling stock with seating that some people presume to be uncomfortable because it's not padded like great-grandma's Victorian settee.

On the second point, Amtrak pays well, and some people consider the traveling aspect a feature. If I recall correctly, Amtrak has many more applications for positions than it has positions to fill. That doesn't sound like an unattractive employer to me.

Having watched the video, the t-shirt some people are clutching their pearls about is an Amtrak promotional t-shirt: "Maybe your next flight should be on a train." Meanwhile, the woman faux-interviewing the man in the t-shirt is in a business-like dress, and the t-shirt doesn't look sloppy (except to those who deem a t-shirt inherently sloppy). I don't think Amtrak is trying to send any hidden message about being contemptuous of its passengers because its spokesman isn't in a suit, nor trying too hard to be young and hip. Company execs wearing their company's promotional t-shirts is a thing.

 

[PaTrainFan]

As a long-time accountant/finance wonk, the fact that Amtrak was willing to let a room go vacant at $3145 rather than lowering the price to one that would be sold is unbelievable. Instead of getting something for the room that would be out on the rails no matter what, they let it go vacant for the duration of the trip. In fact, the sleeper part of the train (especially bedrooms) seemed to be fairly empty. Don't know about the coach, I forgot to go over to that side.

There are sunk costs to running the service and failing to maximize the sold capacity of a train quite frankly blows my mind. It's like sending a plane off half sold, airlines aren't doing that anymore.

Totally agree with this. I accept the supply and demand argument that seem to keep first class fares high. Yet I cannot imagine why Amtrak allows rooms to go unsold, although they may hold out hope to the very end that somebody will pony up at the last minute through their Bid Up process. Still, it is silly as can be to have empty rooms with no revenue produced.

 

[Septa9739]

Once upon a time conductors could sell sleeper space on board to clear excess inventory. That has gone by the wayside. I don’t know why. That seeems to leave thousands in revenue on the table.

I think many of us have found ourselves sitting in coach wondering what the sleeper upgrade would cost and if it might be worth it for one reason or another.

 

[Qapla]

Once upon a time conductors could sell sleeper space on board to clear excess inventory. That has gone by the wayside. I don’t know why.

I was told by a conductor that it was eliminated because too many Amtrak personnel were "selling" the empty rooms and pocketing the money instead of giving it to Amtrak

As to comfortable seats ... one thing Amtrak has emphasized for many years is "no middle seat", thus allowing them to have wide, comfortable seats. Now, don't get me wrong because I have mobility issues and a "handicapped placard" ... but having to adjust all the center aisles in all the coach cars so wheelchairs can pass causes the seats to be narrower, which lessens the comfort. In the current Amfleet there is a place for wheelchairs on the same end as the accessible restroom. In the adjusted for wheelchair design it means that 50-60 people are inconvenienced for their entire ride all the time "just in case" a wheelchair may want to go down the aisle.

It would be different if the train car could be made wider to accommodate the wheelchairs without taking that space away from everyone else. While I agree that a person in a wheelchair should not be denied the use of the train because they are in a wheelchair, does that outweigh everyone else even if no wheelchair in on the train?

The thing is people blame Amtrak for the narrower seats instead of the disabilities act just like they blame the train for hitting cars that ignore the crossing arms.

 

[MARC Rider]

I was told by a conductor that it was eliminated because too many Amtrak personnel were "selling" the empty rooms and pocketing the money instead of giving it to Amtrak

It seems that technology has since developed to a point where the conductor could use a mobile device and a customer credit card to sell the empty room with no chance of any money getting pocketed by the conductor.

 

[railiner]

I was told by a conductor that it was eliminated because too many Amtrak personnel were "selling" the empty rooms and pocketing the money instead of giving it to Amtrak

As to comfortable seats ... one thing Amtrak has emphasized for many years is "no middle seat", thus allowing them to have wide, comfortable seats. Now, don't get me wrong because I have mobility issues and a "handicapped placard" ... but having to adjust all the center aisles in all the coach cars so wheelchairs can pass causes the seats to be narrower, which lessens the comfort. In the current Amfleet there is a place for wheelchairs on the same end as the accessible restroom. In the adjusted for wheelchair design it means that 50-60 people are inconvenienced for their entire ride all the time "just in case" a wheelchair may want to go down the aisle.

It would be different if the train car could be made wider to accommodate the wheelchairs without taking that space away from everyone else. While I agree that a person in a wheelchair should not be denied the use of the train because they are in a wheelchair, does that outweigh everyone else even if no wheelchair in on the train?

The thing is people blame Amtrak for the narrower seats instead of the disabilities act just like they blame the train for hitting cars that ignore the crossing arms.

My issue with the Venture seats is not mainly their being narrower, but their non-ergonomic design, as well as their “recline” method.
As I’ve mentioned, I have ridden in buses on overnight trips with more comfortable seating.

I was told by a conductor that it was eliminated because too many Amtrak personnel were "selling" the empty rooms and pocketing the money instead of giving it to Amtrak

A risky behavior, as it is always possible that the seats could be sold later, downline…

 

[Tom C]

My issue with the Venture seats is not mainly their being narrower, but their non-ergonomic design, as well as their “recline” method.
As I’ve mentioned, I have ridden in buses on overnight trips with more comfortable seating.

The Brightline seats are a bit better but their recline method is the same. I would expect something similar for the Airo fleet.

 

[MARC Rider]

My issue with the Venture seats is not mainly their being narrower, but their non-ergonomic design, as well as their “recline” method.
As I’ve mentioned, I have ridden in buses on overnight trips with more comfortable seating.

I did a 5-hour ride in a VIA LRC with the "rocker recline," and after some fiddling, it was perfectly comfortable. The VIA LRC seats are a bit firm, and there's plenty of legroom, even in coach. I suspect, after the complaints about the Ventures, the Airos will have better seats, and when they get around to new long-distance coaches, the seats will be suitable for sleeping.

 

[PrduPete]

Once upon a time conductors could sell sleeper space on board to clear excess inventory. That has gone by the wayside. I don’t know why. That seeems to leave thousands in revenue on the table.

I think many of us have found ourselves sitting in coach wondering what the sleeper upgrade would cost and if it might be worth it for one reason or another.

When I rode the SWC from CHI - LAX in December of 2003, I was booked for coach on the way out. Three days before my trip, I got a call from Amtrak saying they had roomettes available, and I could grab one for a $150 upgrade fee. I couldn't believe it and took the deal immediately. In my subsequent trips in coach since then (which is to say almost all of my trips), I have never gotten a phone call or any offer again.

 

[Maglev]

On the first point, I see an Amtrak representative expressly acknowledging that traditional dining is the experience many passengers are looking for, and mentioning Flex Plus as an improvement, not an end point. I don't see what that has to do with Illinois and California buying state-corridor rolling stock with seating that some people presume to be uncomfortable because it's not padded like great-grandma's Victorian settee.

Flex Plus is expressly called a "home run" in the video. Home plate is indeed an "end point" in this analogy. And state-supported services are called "Amtrak" and are run by Amtrak. Are they not Amtrak?

edit to add: We have a lot of antique chairs in our home, and none of them are as comfortable as the modern recliner we have. Comfortable train seats are not from the Victorian era, but are indeed found on Superliners.

When I rode the SWC from CHI - LAX in December of 2003, I was booked for coach on the way out. Three days before my trip, I got a call from Amtrak saying they had roomettes available, and I could grab one for a $150 upgrade fee. I couldn't believe it and took the deal immediately. In my subsequent trips in coach since then (which is to say almost all of my trips), I have never gotten a phone call or any offer again.

This is the kind of communication which is useful, not some mass-text saying' "Welcome aboard, Mr. Trainrider." I get enough crap on my phone as it is.

 

[Tom C]

Flex Plus is expressly called a "home run" in the video. Home plate is indeed an "end point" in this analogy. And state-supported services are called "Amtrak" and are run by Amtrak. Are they not Amtrak?

Amtrak probably uses CSI metrics and surveys when they say if something is a "home run." It's possible that the "flex plus" setup has improved F&B customer satisfaction metrics and survey results on the routes where they have implemented it.

 

[alanh]

Yield management is something of a black art. You can only see if it's working by looking at the overall picture. Individual cases where they could have sold a room but didn't don't really tell the entire picture. If you're constantly 100% sold out the price is probably too low.

I don't see how preventing the conductor from selling upgrades avoids fraud. The fraud is taking money without submitting it to Amtrak, which was already a violation. If the conductor is willing to do that they're not going to obey the no upgrades rule either. They'd also have to exclude meals, or also cook the diner books too.

 

[Maglev]

I just talked to my wife about this thread, and she thinks I should relent about the guy's clothing. "Nowadays, people wear pajamas on planes." I told her that I'm wearing my pajamas next time I dine in a dining car...

 

[jis]

I just talked to my wife about this thread, and she thinks I should relent about the guy's clothing. "Nowadays, people wear pajamas on planes." I told her that I'm wearing my pajamas next time I dine in a dining car...

You will be joining a select group who already do so or worse

 

[John Bredin]

And state-supported services are called "Amtrak" and are run by Amtrak. Are they not Amtrak?

edit to add: We have a lot of antique chairs in our home, and none of them are as comfortable as the modern recliner we have. Comfortable train seats are not from the Victorian era, but are indeed found on Superliners.

Yes, the state routes are promoted as Amtrak and operated by Amtrak. But the Venture cars in question, with the seats in question, were purchased jointly by the Departments of Transportation of Illinois and California for exclusive use on routes in the Midwest and California, respectively. Amtrak didn't buy the cars, IDOT and CalDOT own them and hand them over to Amtrak to operate, same as NCDOT owns the refurbished older equipment Amtrak operates on the Piedmonts.

Therefore, the fact that some think the seats suck is not evidence that Amtrak doesn't care about the passenger experience. When Amtrak gets down to brass tacks on the Airos and orders seats, then we can infer something about Amtrak from its seat choice.

As to my Victorian settee comment, I regret being flippant. But the fact that a seat doesn't resemble an admittedly comfortable Superliner seat doesn't automatically mean it's uncomfortable, especially for corridor equipment. Aeron office chairs don't have a whit of padding and people sit in them for hours. Meanwhile, since the Amtrak* Venture seats do have some padding and some recline, I tend to read online complaints that the seats are "rock hard" and don't recline as hyperbole.

I set out on Google to find out whether the seats on the Brightline Ventures and the VIA Ventures are the same as the Amtrak* Ventures, but I honestly couldn't find a clear answer after 15 minutes. (I am supposed to be working. ) I saw stuff saying the only difference was the headrests, and other stuff saying the Amtrak* Ventures have different seats than Brightline's or VIA's. Interestingly, the headrest-only sources said Airo will have a headrest cushion, unlike the Amtrak* Ventures but like the Brightline and VIA Ventures.

 

[Cal]

I set out on Google to find out whether the seats on the Brightline Ventures and the VIA Ventures are the same as the Amtrak* Ventures, but I honestly couldn't find a clear answer after 15 minutes. (I am supposed to be working. ) I saw stuff saying the only difference was the headrests, and other stuff saying the Amtrak* Ventures have different seats than Brightline's or VIA's. Interestingly, the headrest-only sources said Airo will have a headrest cushion, unlike the Amtrak* Ventures but like the Brightline and VIA Ventures.

Pretty sure they are.

 

[railiner]

Yes, the state routes are promoted as Amtrak and operated by Amtrak. But the Venture cars in question, with the seats in question, were purchased jointly by the Departments of Transportation of Illinois and California for exclusive use on routes in the Midwest and California, respectively. Amtrak didn't buy the cars, IDOT and CalDOT own them and hand them over to Amtrak to operate, same as NCDOT owns the refurbished older equipment Amtrak operates on the Piedmonts.

Therefore, the fact that some think the seats suck is not evidence that Amtrak doesn't care about the passenger experience. When Amtrak gets down to brass tacks on the Airos and orders seats, then we can infer something about Amtrak from its seat choice.

As to my Victorian settee comment, I regret being flippant. But the fact that a seat doesn't resemble an admittedly comfortable Superliner seat doesn't automatically mean it's uncomfortable, especially for corridor equipment. Aeron office chairs don't have a whit of padding and people sit in them for hours. Meanwhile, since the Amtrak* Venture seats do have some padding and some recline, I tend to read online complaints that the seats are "rock hard" and don't recline as hyperbole.

I set out on Google to find out whether the seats on the Brightline Ventures and the VIA Ventures are the same as the Amtrak* Ventures, but I honestly couldn't find a clear answer after 15 minutes. (I am supposed to be working. ) I saw stuff saying the only difference was the headrests, and other stuff saying the Amtrak* Ventures have different seats than Brightline's or VIA's. Interestingly, the headrest-only sources said Airo will have a headrest cushion, unlike the Amtrak* Ventures but like the Brightline and VIA Ventures.

Did your research happen to identify the manufacturer of any of these seats? If so, their website may catalog different versions or options available to purcasers…

 

[Tom C]

Pretty sure they are.

I don’t know about the padding and seat cushions but the way they “recline” is the same.