Amtrak's New "Fresh Choices" Dining on CL & LSL

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On the longer trains,refrigeration capacity will be an issue. If the CZ is running three sold out Sleepers for six meals CHI/EMY for 120 or more Sleeper passengers, crew, and some Coach sales, that means storage of over 1000 prepackaged meals in the Kitchen refrigeration. I don't know if they have that much space based on an average size meal tray plastic container
 
This will not be a problem when longer-running routes are chopped into segments.
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With the changes due to take place, Amtrak has not updated any of it's menus on its site,

Usually the menus are changed twice a year (October, and April), and some changes are easily predicted like offering

pancakes instead of the French Toast and visa versa.

That said, it will be very interesting to see what the LD national menu looks like when it is finally updated.

The only major changes are what is planned for the LSL, and the CO, but who knows whats in store for the other trains with dining cars.

Ken
 
I just thought of another issue with the sleeper lounge in the lsl. The Boston sleeper is several cars away from where the viewliner dining car will be if it’s still positioned next to the nyp section. A hassle for those pax to access their cold stuff meals and complimentary drinks.

I wonder if the consist will be temporarily changed for this summer.

Imho they could shuffle the car order one normal operation resumes. For example:

Engine

Engine

Baggage car

Bos coach

Bos coach

Bos coach

Business class/lounge for bos section

Boston sleeper

Sleeper lounge

NYP sleeper

NYP sleeper

NYP lounge car

NYP coach

NYP coach

NYP coach

NYP baggage

There maybe more coaches but I think this is the same number of cars And usual iirc.
 
I just thought of another issue with the sleeper lounge in the lsl. The Boston sleeper is several cars away from where the viewliner dining car will be if it’s still positioned next to the nyp section. A hassle for those pax to access their cold stuff meals and complimentary drinks.

I wonder if the consist will be temporarily changed for this summer.

Imho they could shuffle the car order one normal operation resumes. For example:

Engine

Engine

Baggage car

Bos coach

Bos coach

Bos coach

Business class/lounge for bos section

Boston sleeper

Sleeper lounge

NYP sleeper

NYP sleeper

NYP lounge car

NYP coach

NYP coach

NYP coach

NYP baggage

There maybe more coaches but I think this is the same number of cars And usual iirc.
But that has the problem of coach pax from both sections walking through the BOS sleeper...
 
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You don't need to segregate NY and BOS sleepers, none are going to NY. You probably won't need a NY bag. The only thing that would change what I just said is if they decide to drop cars in Albany to reduce overall length for service reasons in Boston.
 
Steve4031 was talking about what they could do once the LSL resumes normal service. In which case you do have to segregate the sleepers, and the proposed consist would have coach and business passengers walking through the Boston sleeper.
 
Oops... well, looking long term, the next reshuffling after return to normal could potentially involve placement of a Bag/dorm on one of the sections. I'm not sure what they do now is any worse than the proposal.
 
PDF Page 7 says it all. For the first time in its 47 years as of next Tuesday, Amtrak is closing in on break even. The FY17 loss, adjusted for inflation, is likely the lowest ever reported.

While this development is hardly a prompt for reducing the annual appropriation, and the record $1.9B granted for FY18 suggests it is not, that appropriation is becoming less necessary to move trains "over the road" and more for updating Amtrak owned road and facilities.

"Fresh Choice" Food and Beverage is simply a step towards that direction of reducing operating expenses; best advice - "live with it". If you choose not to ride, so be it.
 
I just hope they don't touch dining cars on the CZ, EB, or Coast Starlight before my trip in September!
Fortunately those are “flagship” routes and are unlikely to take a hit like this particularly soon. If you were riding the CONO, TE, Cardinal, or even Sunset, you would have much more to worry about...
 
This might be what we are stuck with on overnight trains with 1 night. Would not work so well on trains with two nights.

However iirc there was a state that said only a small percentage rode end to end in first class or coach.
 
On the flagship runs, they sell it as an "upgraded" (cough) meal service. SCA has the gold down table out with a napkin table cloth, a rolled up napkin and plastic wear, maybe the meal set out uncovered, drink ready beside meal, something like hotel room service. Obviously, an extra SCA would be required to handle meal, bed, and stop duties, plus clean up post meal. It's a cold meal served for you in the privacy of your room. Just trying to think like a marketing person, except the big New York marketing folks probably only fly or maybe go on Acela. So they don't have a clue as to what is happening.
 
"Fresh Choice" Food and Beverage is simply a step towards that direction of reducing operating expenses; best advice - "live with it". If you choose not to ride, so be it.
I love this attitude of "If you don't like it, buh bye, there's plenty of people behind you waiting for your spot".

Until there's not.
 
"Fresh Choice" Food and Beverage is simply a step towards that direction of reducing operating expenses; best advice - "live with it". If you choose not to ride, so be it.
I love this attitude of "If you don't like it, buh bye, there's plenty of people behind you waiting for your spot". Until there's not.
If I remember correctly he's also a regular customer of United Airlines so it's possible, at least from his perspective, that watching millions of people line up for lousy service is just par for the course.
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"Fresh Choice" Food and Beverage is simply a step towards that direction of reducing operating expenses; best advice - "live with it". If you choose not to ride, so be it.
I love this attitude of "If you don't like it, buh bye, there's plenty of people behind you waiting for your spot". Until there's not.
If I remember correctly he's also a regular customer of United Airlines so it's possible, at least from his perspective, that watching millions of people line up for lousy service is just par for the course.
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Being a transplanted Houstonian, I can relate regarding United.

That said, the business landscape is LITTERED with the bones of companies and organizations who took for granted and betrayed their core customers chasing the whimsical, mythical "next generation", with the attitude of "We can do whatever we want, what are they going to do, stop using us????". They never seem to realize that in many cases, the answer is "yes".
 
Maybe they will just make things an old SP automat car and if the vending machines break down, too bad. Hope for a burrito lady. [emoji37]
The way it's going, you may not be so far off in your prediction...


If the worst does happen, I believe that will present great opportunities for enterprising entrepreneurs to fill the vacuum with some kind of alternate service...

Such as an 'app' on your smart phone that would let you choose from an excellent menu, order ahead, and have hot or cold meals delivered to you right at the platform on some of the stops enroute. Such a plan could work, even if the train were delayed. That would work out better than having scheduled meal stops at stations, like in the Harvey House era. And it would offer much greater choices...
 
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...

That said, the business landscape is LITTERED with the bones of companies and organizations who took for granted and betrayed their core customers chasing the whimsical, mythical "next generation", with the attitude of "We can do whatever we want, what are they going to do, stop using us????". They never seem to realize that in many cases, the answer is "yes".
Amtrak's "core customer" is not the long distance passenger that uses a dining car. 88% of Amtrak passengers ride trains that do not have dining cars, and of the 12% that ride trains with a dining car, some significant percentage of them do not use it. If about 1/3 of the passengers on a long distance train do not use the dining car, that reduces the utilization to about 8% of all Amtrak customers. Thus, for about 92% of Amtrak's customers, changes in dining car service will have no impact on their on board experience and perception of value.
 
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If the worst does happen, I believe that will present great opportunities for enterprising entrepreneurs to fill the vacuum with some kind of alternate service...Such as an 'app' on your smart phone that would let you choose from an excellent menu, order ahead, and have hot or cold meals delivered to you right at the platform on some of the stops enroute. Such a plan could work, even if the train were delayed. That would work out better than having scheduled meal stops at stations, like in the Harvey House era. And it would offer much greater choices...
There are a few problems I see with this premise.

1. Even when Amtrak is on-time at the final terminus they can still be off by hours at several midpoints along the route. Not knowing when your food will be needed or how much time you'll have to deliver it would make such a service rather inefficient.

2. In many locations the train and platform area are off limits to vendors and/or under the control of a third party. That would make it difficult to serve passengers quickly and efficiently.

3. The vast majority of Amtrak's network receives two trains or less per day and in some cases as little as once every few days. If only a few people order food on a given train do you deliver it at a loss, cancel the order(s) due to insufficient demand, or raise prices to the point that even one single entree has made enough revenue to pay a driver to sit and wait for the train to arrive and for the customer to walk off premises to collect it?

4. If anything goes wrong there probably isn't enough time to make it right before your customer is on the move again. That could mean a relatively high ratio of displeased customers, an excessive number of negative reviews, and difficult to defend charge-back requests.

5. From a commercial business perspective you can't simply start with a burrito lady and just scale up. The reason the burrito lady remains viable is because her whole business is under the table. If she had to maintain a licensed kitchen, hire employees and pay them a legal salary, collect taxes and pay an access fee to use the station facilities, and cover all the other usual business expenses she'd never make a profit.

If there were one location where a third party could make and sell food for eating on board Amtrak, and be able to provide that food in a timely fashion directly to passengers, it would be Chicago Union Station. The problem there is that Amtrak owns/controls the relevant parts of the station and probably wouldn't be willing to allow a third party to cannibalize their own dining service.

Amtrak's "core customer" is not the long distance passenger that uses a dining car. 88% of Amtrak passengers ride trains that do not have dining cars, and of the 12% that ride trains with a dining car, some significant percentage of them do not use it. If about 1/3 of the passengers on a long distance train do not use the dining car, that reduces the utilization to about 8% of all Amtrak customers. Thus, for about 92% of Amtrak's customers, changes in dining car service will have no impact on their on board experience and perception of value.
If anything abandoning the long distance network will probably make Amtrak stronger financially. Which is why those of us who live outside the inward focused commuter corridors are rightfully concerned whenever service or amenity levels undergo yet another supply side revision. Personally I think some of the reasons so few people use the dining car is because the food quality is poor, the cost is high, the service is slow, and the staff are rude. But I guess you can't teach a dead horse new tricks.
 
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Maybe they will just make things an old SP automat car and if the vending machines break down, too bad. Hope for a burrito lady. [emoji37]
The way it's going, you may not be so far off in your prediction...


If the worst does happen, I believe that will present great opportunities for enterprising entrepreneurs to fill the vacuum with some kind of alternate service...

Such as an 'app' on your smart phone that would let you choose from an excellent menu, order ahead, and have hot or cold meals delivered to you right at the platform on some of the stops enroute. Such a plan could work, even if the train were delayed. That would work out better than having scheduled meal stops at stations, like in the Harvey House era. And it would offer much greater choices...
For example, e-Catering on Indian Railways is already a thriving concern with more delivery stations coming on line as time passes.

https://www.travelkhana.com/tkblog/tag/e-catering

It is probably a little harder to operate such a thing profitably when there is only one train or less to serve per day though.
 
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