Amtrak's Pioneer

[Guest_Anne_*]

Hello!

Our family will be traveling from Sacramento to Chicago next week on the California Zephyr -- our first time on a long distance train. We booked our family bedroom months ago. We just found out that we will be re-routed through Wyoming along the old Pioneer route due to track work between Salt Lake City and Denver.

We are a bit disappointed that we will miss the scenery, tunnels, etc. over that stretch. Can anyone tell us what to expect along the new route?

Thanks in advance!

Anne

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hello!
Our family will be traveling from Sacramento to Chicago next week on the California Zephyr -- our first time on a long distance train. We booked our family bedroom months ago. We just found out that we will be re-routed through Wyoming along the old Pioneer route due to track work between Salt Lake City and Denver.

We are a bit disappointed that we will miss the scenery, tunnels, etc. over that stretch. Can anyone tell us what to expect along the new route?

Thanks in advance!

Anne

Well according to "AMSPEAK" you will see a sharp contrast to the usual Colorado scenery! :lol: Ive been in Wyoming several times, admittadly not on the CZ and there wasnt a whole lot there except

miles and miles and miles of ,well, flat nothing! Yellowstone Park of course is a different thing but the

train doesnt go there of course!!!! :angry: On your return perhaps you can ride the "good" route of the CZ,

if not perhaps rebook and ride the EB out of PDX or SEA(well its hard to get rooms in the summer,the most

popular train in the summer! The trip is still the thing, enjoy the journey! BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sunchaser]

Hello!
Our family will be traveling from Sacramento to Chicago next week on the California Zephyr -- our first time on a long distance train. We booked our family bedroom months ago. We just found out that we will be re-routed through Wyoming along the old Pioneer route due to track work between Salt Lake City and Denver.

We are a bit disappointed that we will miss the scenery, tunnels, etc. over that stretch. Can anyone tell us what to expect along the new route?

Thanks in advance!

Anne

Hi Anne,

This was discussed fairly recently- if you Click here & here , you will find the info.

 

[Guest_Anne_*]

Hello!
Our family will be traveling from Sacramento to Chicago next week on the California Zephyr -- our first time on a long distance train. We booked our family bedroom months ago. We just found out that we will be re-routed through Wyoming along the old Pioneer route due to track work between Salt Lake City and Denver.

We are a bit disappointed that we will miss the scenery, tunnels, etc. over that stretch. Can anyone tell us what to expect along the new route?

Thanks in advance!

Anne

Hi Anne,

This was discussed fairly recently- if you Click here & here , you will find the info.

Thank you very much!

 

[sunchaser]

You're welcome! Welcome to the board!

I encourage you to ask any questions you might have, there are many here that are willing & can answer them for you!

Enjoy your trip, and please don't forget to post a trip report when you come back!

 

[RT Torgesen]

I have heard the Pioneer will travel through Montpelier and soda Springs on the Old Oregon Shortline. Is this true?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I have heard the Pioneer will travel through Montpelier and soda Springs on the Old Oregon Shortline. Is this true?

No, it isn't. The truth is that Congress authorized a **** load of money so that Amtrak could hand them a sheet of paper, perhaps complete with a short powerpoint presentation, about how they would go about restarting service approximating a route including the general areas of Ogden, Boise, Portland, and Seattle, and what ridership and costs would be associated with it.

That's it. No route of this nature is starting any time soon. Possibly not ever. We aren't within a million miles of being able to tell you what cities it hypothetically might serve if it ever got beyond the "Lets fund a study to make it look like we are doing something" stage.

 

[sunchaser]

No, it isn't. The truth is that Congress authorized a **** load of money so that Amtrak could hand them a sheet of paper, perhaps complete with a short powerpoint presentation, about how they would go about restarting service approximating a route including the general areas of Ogden, Boise, Portland, and Seattle, and what ridership and costs would be associated with it.
That's it. No route of this nature is starting any time soon. Possibly not ever. We aren't within a million miles of being able to tell you what cities it hypothetically might serve if it ever got beyond the "Lets fund a study to make it look like we are doing something" stage.

That's really too bad. I was just looking at the old schedule again this morning, & if it was running, it would cutt our travel time in half! I'm assuming the price would a good deal lower as well. But that would mean no Zephyr or Starlight ride, unless we included them as a loop!!!

 

[MrFSS]

Another article HERE.

 

[Tony]

In the meantime, city councils along the route are voicing their support for Pioneer’s return, passing resolutions outlining what they hope to gain from renewed access to passenger rail.
In Sun Valley, the council passed a measure earlier this month saying the return of passenger train service through southern Idaho would increase accessibility and attract more visitors to the area, even though the nearest stop to Sun Valley would be in Shoshone, about 50 miles south.

Just how many of these city councils included MONEY in their resolutions; money to be used if the $20M per year deficit returns along with the train.

 

[Superliner]

Ah, the days of the Pioneer! I rode this train several times back in the late 80s. From Iowa to Oregon and back. Loved every bit of it. The train would split and join the California Zephyr in Salt Lake City back then. In SLC, thru-cars, usually a coach/baggage & a sleeper, would connect to an already waiting single F40, Diner/Lounge, & Coach. During peak travel periods, a second coach would be included. The consist of 25/26 was 5 cars between SLC & SEA and vice versa with a single F40, Diner/Lounge, Coach, Coach, Coach/Baggage, & Sleeping Car. If memory serves me correctly, the fueling point eastbound for 26 was Nampa, ID. Oh, how I miss this train!

 

[como]

I was looking at how the new Amtrak Bill requires an investigation into the old Pioneer path from Denver to Seattle. I live in Fort Collins, it is between Cheyenne and Denver. The old Pioneer stopped in Greeley, which is 45 minutes directly to the east of Fort Collins. Now if went down the old Colorado and Southern Tracks (now BNSF). The Pioneer could serve Fort Collins (home of CSU), Boulder (home of CU) or take the UP tracks from Fort Collins to Longmont making a more direct route to Denver. There is one major problem:

Fort Collins BNSF line goes directly through town, and that includes down Mason Street which as you can imagine a drastic speed reduction through town, although this might be slower, it would be stopping by at least 2 more major cities in Colorado then on its prior route.

Any thoughts on this or the train in general?

The BNSF line goes through Lafayette, Louisville, Boulder, Longmont, Berthoud and Loveland. It would be a great commuter line (and will probably become one soon) but it is not a direct route to Cheyenne. People living south of Longmont are within 45 minutes by express bus from Denver Union Station so the benefit of service on that line may not be that great.

 

[como]

How About Denver-Cheyenne-Casper-Billings?

Burlington Timetable June 1, 1967

Train 29 (last run was August 1967)

Denver 8:30 p.m.

Broomfield

Louisville

Boulder

Longmont

Berthoud

Loveland

Ft. Collins

Wellington

Cheyenne, WY

Federal

Horse Creek

Farthing

Chugwater

Wheatland

Wendover

Glendo

Orin

Douglas

Glenrock

Casper

Bishop

Bucknum

Powder River

Arminto

Lysite

Bonneville

Thermopolis

Worland

Manderson

Basin

Greybull

Lovell

Cowley

Deaver

Frannie

East Bridger, MT

Fromberg

Silesia

Laurel

Billings 4:00 p.m.

I grew up in Boulder and tried to convince my dad that it would be fun to take the train to Billings. He didn't agree.

 

[MikeM]

The BNSF line goes through Lafayette, Louisville, Boulder, Longmont, Berthoud and Loveland. It would be a great commuter line (and will probably become one soon) but it is not a direct route to Cheyenne. People living south of Longmont are within 45 minutes by express bus from Denver Union Station so the benefit of service on that line may not be that great.

Trains newswire reports on July 16th that the Denver Regional Transportation District (RTD) has reached an agreement with the BNSF to purchase the part of this line from Denver Union Station to 72nd street in Broomfield. This will be used for commuter rail services. The agreement earns BNSF $93.7M for the purchase plus an additional $32M to cover some line and yard relocations. It's expected the deal will close by next January.

Not sure what impact this would have on any Amtrak routing (although the line not only has street running in Fort Collins, it also runs down the street in part of Longmont CO), but it'd be fun to see trains along this route. There is an existing C&S depot in Boulder currently owned and used by a lumber yard, and Longmont has an original stone station in use by the railroad, albeit with poor parking and crowded in by the neighboring turkey processing plant. Suspect this would be an interesting, but slow way to get to Cheyenne.

 

[DaveKCMO]

wouldn't it be possible to run three branches from SLC?

SLC-LAX

SLC-PDX

SLC-EMY

 

[JAChooChoo]

wouldn't it be possible to run three branches from SLC?
SLC-LAX was the Desert Wind from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-PDX was the Pioneer from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-EMY California Zephyr

 

[zephyr17]

wouldn't it be possible to run three branches from SLC?
SLC-LAX was the Desert Wind from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-PDX was the Pioneer from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-EMY California Zephyr

Pioneer was actually split out at Denver and ran via Wyoming to Ogden the last few years of Pioneer operation. That happened sometime in the early 90s. Reason was to improve departure and arrival times in Seattle due to the much shorter running time across Wyoming. It didn't hurt that it restored service across Wyoming after having lost it when the SFZ was re-routed on the D&RGW to become the CZ in 1983.

 

[zephyr17]

wouldn't it be possible to run three branches from SLC?
SLC-LAX was the Desert Wind from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-PDX was the Pioneer from October 28, 1979 to May 10, 1997.

SLC-EMY California Zephyr

Pioneer was actually split out at Denver and ran via Wyoming to Ogden the last few years of Pioneer operation. That happened sometime in the early 90s. Reason was to improve departure and arrival times in Seattle due to the much shorter running time across Wyoming. It didn't hurt that it restored service across Wyoming after having lost it when the SFZ was re-routed on the D&RGW to become the CZ in 1983.

Also, the split was at Ogden until the D&RGW reroute of 5/6 in 1983. From 79-83, SLC was only served by the Desert Wind, not by the 5/6.

 

[como]

The BNSF line goes through Lafayette, Louisville, Boulder, Longmont, Berthoud and Loveland. It would be a great commuter line (and will probably become one soon) but it is not a direct route to Cheyenne. People living south of Longmont are within 45 minutes by express bus from Denver Union Station so the benefit of service on that line may not be that great.

Trains newswire reports on July 16th that the Denver Regional Transportation District (RTD) has reached an agreement with the BNSF to purchase the part of this line from Denver Union Station to 72nd street in Broomfield. This will be used for commuter rail services. The agreement earns BNSF $93.7M for the purchase plus an additional $32M to cover some line and yard relocations. It's expected the deal will close by next January.

Not sure what impact this would have on any Amtrak routing (although the line not only has street running in Fort Collins, it also runs down the street in part of Longmont CO), but it'd be fun to see trains along this route. There is an existing C&S depot in Boulder currently owned and used by a lumber yard, and Longmont has an original stone station in use by the railroad, albeit with poor parking and crowded in by the neighboring turkey processing plant. Suspect this would be an interesting, but slow way to get to Cheyenne.

Mike, The station in Boulder that you refer to was built in 1959 and is on The C&S mainline. The old station that was built in the 1890's was abandoned when the tracks were removed from downtown Boulder around 1960. The station was moved to 30th St. in the 1970's and was used by the Jaycees. Here is the plan for the area around the station that will include space for commuter rail. www.bouldercolorado.gov/files/tvap_att_d.pdf

 

[DET63]

wouldn't it be possible to run three branches from SLC?
SLC-LAX

SLC-PDX

SLC-EMY

SLC-LAX was The Desert Wind

SLC-PDX-SEA was The Pioneer

SLC-EMY (actually, Oakland, at least when the train still went to the 16th Street station prior to the Loma Prieta Earthquake) was The California Zephyr

During the later years of The Pioneer and The Desert Wind, I believe those trains only ran three or four times a week. I'm not sure which days they ran, or if the CZ also ran only a few days a week. The justification for eliminating the LA and PDX-SEA trains was, IIRC, to free up the Superliner equipment for daily service on the CZ (and perhaps other LD trains).

 

[evan E]

Wow, I know I'm a young'n but that is just fascinating... It's so interesting to read the Carrier Notice "...The ICC has ordered this operation to continue untill March 31, 1979..." I've never seen anything like that, quite neat. Thank you for sharing that.

As a child i would hoard amtrak time tables, my mother still to this day has no idea why, but I came across a few when visiting home a few years ago and was instantly glued to them for a few hours. :lol:

thank you!

 

[evan E]

Proposed stops

S.L.C.

Ogden

Pocatello

Mountain Home, ID

Boise

Nampa-Caldwell, ID

Ontario, OR

La Grande, OR

Pendleton, OR

Hermiston, OR

Pasco-Kenniwick

Yakima

Ellensburg, WA

either Auburn or Kent, WA

Seattle

It should leave S.L.C sometime in the mid-afternoon, get to Boise in the evening, and arrive in Seattle sometime in the late afternoon-early evening the next day

 

[zephyr17]

Just curious, but according to that timetable it looked like you had to change trains in Ogden. It was not thru car service from Chicago. Also neat to see it originated in Salt Lake City. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't later Amtrak run the California Zephyr, Pioneer, and Desert Wind as one train? Pioneer splitting off in Denver and Desert splitting in Salt Lake?

The operation of the Pioneer changed several times over it's lifetime. 1979 was pretty early in it's life. It started as a connecting train without through cars of any sort -- it wasn't a Superliner then. Then it did carry through cars, although I don't know it that coincided with rerouting the San Francisco Zephyr off the UP and onto the D&RGW in 1983, making the California Zephyr. For many years, the Pioneer and Desert Wind through cars were carried to Salt Lake City, and the train was split there, with both the Desert Wind and the Pioneer originating in Salt Lake. Later, don't recall the date, but it was after 1990 because it didn't happen until after I moved to Seattle, they changed the Pioneer split from Salt Lake to Denver. This was partly because the times to/from Seattle were bad, very early and very late, due to increased running time over the D&RGW versus the UP. Also because it restored service across Wyoming. That was the last incarnation of the Pioneer.

Nice to see a little bit of history with the Rio Grande Zephyr (sail on, Silver Girl) on that timetable. Be glad you didn't see many of those ICC notices. I remember a time when timetables were chock full of them (late 60s).

 

[zephyr17]

Proposed stops

S.L.C.

Ogden

Pocatello

Mountain Home, ID

Boise

Nampa-Caldwell, ID

Ontario, OR

La Grande, OR

Pendleton, OR

Hermiston, OR

Pasco-Kenniwick

Yakima

Ellensburg, WA

either Auburn or Kent, WA

Seattle

It should leave S.L.C sometime in the mid-afternoon, get to Boise in the evening, and arrive in Seattle sometime in the late afternoon-early evening the next day

There are several routing and schedule options that resulted from the PRIIA study conducted by Amtrak. While the cost estimates are thought by many to be inflated to some degree or another, the routing and schedule options presented seem pretty complete and well thought out. They include both Denver/Wyoming and Salt Lake options, and a variety of scheduling options, including a long, San Antonio type layover.

It is available on Amtrak's website at

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1249200496429&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-disposition&blobheadervalue1=attachment;filename=Amtrak_PioneerServiceStudy.pdf

 

[Evan]

I was looking at how the new Amtrak Bill requires an investigation into the old Pioneer path from Denver to Seattle. I live in Fort Collins, it is between Cheyenne and Denver. The old Pioneer stopped in Greeley, which is 45 minutes directly to the east of Fort Collins. Now if went down the old Colorado and Southern Tracks (now BNSF). The Pioneer could serve Fort Collins (home of CSU), Boulder (home of CU) or take the UP tracks from Fort Collins to Longmont making a more direct route to Denver. There is one major problem:

Fort Collins BNSF line goes directly through town, and that includes down Mason Street which as you can imagine a drastic speed reduction through town, although this might be slower, it would be stopping by at least 2 more major cities in Colorado then on its prior route.

Any thoughts on this or the train in general?

You mean running down this steet? Google Maps.

The Coast Starlight runs down a street in Oakland. How long is the run down Mason?

First quote: I was planning a train that went through your town stopping after Cheyenne: Cheyenne, Ft. Collins, Greeley, Longmont, Boulder, Denver.