Animals on AMTRAK

[Ted Bell]

Anyone who feels like it is OK to OWN another living, breathing creature should consider which side of the Mason-Dixon line they would have been more comfortable living on. If it isn't a problem to own a dog, why isn't it ok to own a person?

I also believe it isn't right to breed other species, nor is it acceptable to captivate and domesticate them.

And yes. I'm a vegetarian.

 

[SarahZ]

You are seriously going to compare loving and caring for an animal with slavery?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Anyone who feels like it is OK to OWN another living, breathing creature ...

You know I've read the Bhagavad-Gita, the Dhammapada, working my through the Vedas and the Sutras, finished Lao Tsu a few years back... You won't find many people on this board who believe in animal-human transmigration, but I do.

That being said the two cats that choose to live in this house do just that, choose. Sure we make it an easy choice but they are not made to stay here. If I stopped feeding them then they would just go out and destroy more birds and rabbits, die lonely and sleep in the cold.

And FYI a carrot is living and engages in respiratory function. So stop eating carrots, and heaven forbid if you own a vegetable garden. That's worse than slavery, you're breeding whole generations for your consumption.

 

[Bob Dylan]

As John McEnroe used to say: "You Can't be Serious!!!!!" Comparing Pets to Slavery sounds like something that Wing Nuts like Michelle Bachman would believe!

 

[me_little_me]

Anyone who feels like it is OK to OWN another living, breathing creature should consider which side of the Mason-Dixon line they would have been more comfortable living on. If it isn't a problem to own a dog, why isn't it ok to own a person?

I also believe it isn't right to breed other species, nor is it acceptable to captivate and domesticate them.

And yes. I'm a vegetarian.

I'll bet you pick fresh food right out of the ground and right off their parent plants. And, worse, eat it! Oh! The cruelty of it all. :giggle: :giggle:

 

[SarahZ]

Anyone who feels like it is OK to OWN another living, breathing creature ...

That being said the two cats that choose to live in this house do just that, choose. Sure we make it an easy choice but they are not made to stay here. If I stopped feeding them then they would just go out and destroy more birds and rabbits, die lonely and sleep in the cold.

Careful, ALC. Next thing you know, he'll say your cats have Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[amamba]

LOL, my dog cries if I close the door when I go to the bathroom and leave him in the hallway. He is what I affectionately call a "velcro" pug because he is always around me.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

LOL, my dog cries if I close the door when I go to the bathroom and leave him in the hallway. He is what I affectionately call a "velcro" pug because he is always around me.

My one cat spends the winter in the bathroom since she can't go outside. The second you sit down she knows he has a captive audience.

"Pet me while you you poop. Good human, multitask."

 

[Big Iron]

I was checking the tweets on my dogs I-phone the other day and was amazed to find out that there is an extensive Underground Railroad for "captivated" canines and felines. GPS coordinates and everything!!! They are working on research to develop opposable thumbs to make escape easier.

 

[Ted Bell]

The defensiveness on this thread is very interesting. Helps me understand why so many are in favor of pets on trains. While I don't agree, I respect your opinions.

 

[SarahZ]

I'm not being defensive. I think you're ridiculous. Huge difference.

Comparing giving an animal a warm home, bed, treats, toys, and medical care with the deplorable mistreatment, abuse, and murder of humans is so far off the deep end they have yet to invent the device that can measure how wrong you are.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Also let us not forget the miracle of evolution! These animals have been undergoing small evolutionary changes for over ten thousand years as they became domesticated. Things like their brains structures are different from their "wild" counterparts.

For better or worse Felis domesticus is now a species that survives primarily in companionship with another animal, namely **** sapien. I would call this relationship symbiotic (though a qualified biologist would not) because my cat and I would not survive without each other.

And no I don't breed them, all my cats over the years are strays who decide to become part of the family. I don't abduct them or hold them against their will, they were cold and hungry and came inside and just never left permanently, sometimes they might walk out for a few days, maybe a week, but they come back.

If memory serves when slaves escaped plantations they never came back, willingly anyway, much less come back and be treated to a large bowl of food from their master because master missed them so much.

 

[Ted Bell]

SarahZ - it wouldn't have made much sense to murder a slave. They were purchased and traded. They were owned because of their usefulness to the slave owner. They were killed if they didn't obey the desires of their masters. Much like pets today. So many animals are dropped off at shelters, left in the wild, or killed because they didn't serve the desires of their owners.

Thanks for calling my comment ridiculous. I'm just sharing my opinion. And I wouldn't be here if I didn't appreciate the opinions of others.

(Edited for a misspelling.)

 

[amamba]

Ted Bell, when you actually explained your position, it actually made more sense to me. As someone involved in pet rescue, I vehemently disagree on the evils of keeping a companion animal, but you are entitled to your opinion in regards to pet ownership.

But where you lose me is when you compare pet ownership with slavery. As sarah mentioned, the analogy is not only laughable but actually offensive because it trivializes the horrors that people suffered (and in some parts of the world continue to suffer) under slavery.

 

[Ted Bell]

@amamba,

I agree, slavery is/was nothing less than horror. So let me ask you this. If you raised a person in captivity, and they weren't given the opportunity to live or make choices outside of the parameters you have established for them, could they possibly know true freedom?

If not, how does that make owning an animal any different?

Only curious in your opinion. Not trying to get everyone worked up (even more than I already have).

With respect, me.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Ted the problem with your argument is that it is zero-sum. Yes those horrors happen but you dismiss anybody on here who treats their animals with warmth, love and kindness and you risked offending them. Now that you are approaching it from a non-zero-sum standpoint, that is to say you acknowledge that I am not the moral equivalent of a 1800s plantation owner simply because there are two cats laying around my house, I think you'll find feathers (and fur) are less ruffled.

 

[Ted Bell]

Mr. ALC,

I don't personally know anyone who has owned or does own another person. It is probable that there wasn't much warmth or love in that experience. And yet I wonder, and I ask you, don't you think that perhaps some slave owners actually treated their slaves with warmth and kindness? And would that have made it acceptable?

Again, out of curiosity and respect. Honestly trying to understand your thoughts and the thoughts of others.

PS - all my best to your cats who are lying around. I think cats are awesome.

(Edited for spelling again! What's wrong with me today?)

 

[amamba]

I love my dog. But he is not a human.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Mr. ALC,

I don't personally know anyone who has owned or does own another person. It is probable that there wasn't much warmth or love in that experience. And yet I wonder, and I ask you, don't you think that perhaps some slave owners actually treated their slaves with warmth and kindness? And would that have made it acceptable?

Again, out of curiosity and respect. Honestly trying to understand your thoughts and the thoughts of others.

PS - all my best to your cats who are lying around. I think cats are awesome.

(Edited for spelling again! What's wrong with me today?)

Yes there were indeed a few "good" relationships between slave owners and slaves, a few of which that have been preserved in literature. And no that does not make it acceptable.

But a domesticated dog or cat is not a human, it is an animal which has spent thousands of years evolving at many levels to become the creature it is today. Humans did not evolve in the same way.

Of course if me having cats so offends you I'll put them out on the porch tonight and stop feeding them. I'll tell everyone I know (especially at the shelters) to let all of the pets free and be sure to instruct people never to feed them again. Right now I'll go explain to my cat, who is curled up on a pile of warm blankets, that I am evidently keeping her in captivity against her will and that the proper place for her is outside in the snow.

 

[Ted Bell]

OK I get it! Stockholm syndrome and genetic engineering! I'm sorry I pushed it. I'll keep my opinion to myself (at least for a while).

To get back on topic, do you wish Amtrak would allow passengers to travel with their pets? And if so, would you bring your cats?

 

[Guest]

Comparing giving an animal a warm home, bed, treats, toys, and medical care with the deplorable mistreatment, abuse, and murder of humans is so far off the deep end they have yet to invent the device that can measure how wrong you are.

Gone a bit too "Hollywood"? Not everything you see in movies, is true.

Getting beyond the deplorable concept of actually owning another human being, the reality was that slaves were very, very expensive ($2K to $5K ... and there was no ez-credit terms back then). It was just sound business sense to take good care of such a major investment. That included with food, shelter, and medical care.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

OK I get it! Stockholm syndrome and genetic engineering!

10,000 years of evolution is not genetic engineering. Ask a biologist.

The answer to your next questions are both no. I wouldn't bring any pet onto a train, they wouldn't enjoy it like I would because they are animals. They wouldn't understand the motion, the location, be able to process the scenery or for that matter maintain equilibrium. The opposite is true with me, I enjoy the motion, new locations, can enjoy the scenery and maintain equilibrium (though that took several trips to earn my train legs).

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Comparing giving an animal a warm home, bed, treats, toys, and medical care with the deplorable mistreatment, abuse, and murder of humans is so far off the deep end they have yet to invent the device that can measure how wrong you are.

Gone a bit too "Hollywood"? Not everything you see in movies, is true.

Getting beyond the deplorable concept of actually owning another human being, the reality was that slaves were very, very expensive ($2K to $5K ... and there was no ez-credit terms back then). It was just sound business sense to take good care of such a major investment. That included with food, shelter, and medical care.

If you dislike Hollywood try some slave narratives. Harriet Jacobs' "Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl" makes a very detailed account of the quality of the food, shelter and medical care.

EDIT: And your numbers were wrong. Slaves weren't more than a few hundred dollars. There's a great wealth of literature from 1750 to 1880 all about the slave trade that, I promise you, has no Hollywood white-washing.

Which is to say, yes, it was the closest thing to genocide one can do without actually committing genocide. In fact if one remember genocide can mean a group of people like a tribe, then our ancestors are guilty of several counts of genocide.

 

[Ted Bell]

Mr ALC,

Again, I hope we can travel together and enjoy a beverage someday. I could certainly use one tonight!

I appreciate that you wouldn't travel with your cats because you are considering their well-being instead of your own convenience. Much respect.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Mr ALC,

Again, I hope we can travel together and enjoy a beverage someday. I could certainly use one tonight!

I appreciate that you wouldn't travel with your cats because you are considering their well-being instead of your own convenience. Much respect.

Only if you can sit and watch me eat an extra hamburger.