Are Inspired Meals Improving Amtrak Cuisine?

[who]

I took two long distance trips in the past two months and there was plenty of water, juice, etc, available in the sleepers. On a couple of occasions there was fresh fruit available as well. I don't think a full-blown panic is in order.

 

[the Other Mike]

The cranberry juice seems especially hard to find, which is annoying since it's the only fruit juice that mixes with gin.

Inevitably, though, .

Or the IC's Creole? We know that the Panama Limited had a wonderful dining car, but I doubt that you could have booked a ticket on the Panama Limited in the 50s south of Cairo if you weren't white.

#1, Both olive juice and tomato juice mix well with gin

#2 It's Paula Deans fault :hi:

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, I got free sodas in my sleeper on the way here yesterday (in addition to juice, water, and coffee), so if we're going to take single data points and say that they're new Amtrak policy, the policy is clearly tap hat we're getting more free stuff than in the past.

Of course, taking single data points and using them to assume "that's the policy" is a little silly.

 

[Jason R]

[

Who knows? Cut a bit here and there, by 2030 you might just see Amtrak turn into Southwest on rails. Not Spirit on rails, but Southwest on rails. The airlines started off cutting bits and pieces, then the cuts piled up and we have the poor air service of today.

I guess it's all relative. When I cancelled my long-planned CZ Amtrak adventure (fate cancelled service to our station and added 16 hours of buss rides to the itinerary), I had to buy plane tickets. The 27-hour train ride was condensed to three hours on planes with a one-hour layover, and we arrived at our destination the same day, on time. Our airline tickets cost $300 less than the Amtrak fare, and at no time during the flights did we lack for beverages or access to food.

Truth be told, Amtrak is selling an experience and there is no way it can compete on speed, punctuality or convenience. Anything management does to diminish that sepia-toned "railroad" experience will reduce the appeal of their service.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

If Amtrak wants to provide good food and make a profit, simplicity will be the key. Good simple meals with good flavor at a reasonable price.

One big issue to me is making sure the staff does their job. There is one chef on the Crescent that is notorious for cooking a whole bunch of food at each meal and going back to the crew sleeper before the diner even opens. The rest of the crew sells what he as already cooked and when they are out they are out....... until the next meal.....

I've experienced great food and terrible food on Amtrak and it all comes down to the staff. I've had my best meals on the California Zephyr and my worst on the Crescent. Until Amtrak finds and deals with the crews that run the dining car their own way instead of the right way they will never have across the board good food service. I've seen crews handle packed dining cars perfectly and crews that can barely manage 2 or 3 tables. The staff in the dining car amounts to 90% of the quality of meals and service. They can be given great ingredients and great recipes but if they do their own thing instead of the job they are hired for it does no good.

Simply put you can give a chef fresh wild Alaskan Salmon, good seasonings and side dishes but if he throws 20 plates of it in the microwave and goes back to bed it does no good at all.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

If Amtrak had a simple menu of salads and wraps and several entree's that can be cooked on a grill or an oven and focused on making it the best they could and provide great service they could make a profit. I know space is a concern but look at what Waffle House offers in relatively the same space and with the same appliances.

If Amtrak went more mom and pop diner and less gourmet and hired good staff we would have a better overall food experience that is consistent. Simple is better when it comes to food on a train, pasta, grilled meats, salads etc. are the key. Going away from pre-packaged gourmet meal kits to boxes of steaks, burgers, pasta, bags of potatoes, cans of vegatables etc. would allow for a simple menu where you could pick an entree and pick two sides from a list like most restaurants do now. If they went that route and cooked everything fresh to order we could expect better results. I've seen mom and pop steak restuarants push out some of the best food and do it cheaper than Amtrak. One chef and one or two wait staff could easily serve an Amtrak dining car and put out good food cheaply, It can be done in the same conditions on the ground so it can be done on a train. the only only difference is cooking at 0mph or 80-110mph.

 

[Ryan]

Waffle House has orders of magnitude more storage space.

 

[SarahZ]

It can be done in the same conditions on the ground so it can be done on a train. The only difference is cooking at 0mph or 80-110mph.

That's a HUGE difference. Also, space. Amtrak doesn't have it.

 

[jebr]

The only difference. There's no difference in the storage space available, the type of hours they have to work, the equipment available and safe to use due to space, speed, conditions while moving, etc.

Let's put a standard deep fryer on the train and see how many workers compensation claims Amtrak has. We may even have to close diners due to how many workers have burns.

But the train is pretty much like a land based diner, so no special considerations are needed.

 

[boxcarsyix]

All that fat and sugar would be risky for a lot of passengers!

 

[guest]

If Amtrak had a simple menu of salads and wraps and several entree's that can be cooked on a grill or an oven and focused on making it the best they could and provide great service they could make a profit. I know space is a concern but look at what Waffle House offers in relatively the same space and

If Amtrak went more mom and pop diner and less gourmet and hired good staff we would have a better overall food experience that is consistent. Simple is better when it comes to food on a train, pasta, grilled meats, salads etc. are the key. Going away from pre-packaged gourmet meal kits to boxes of steaks, burgers, pasta, bags of potatoes, cans of vegatables etc. would allow for a simple menu where you could pick an entree and pick two sides from a list like most restaurants do now. If they went that route and cooked everything fresh to order we could expect better results. I've seen mom and pop steak restuarants push out some of the best food and do it cheaper than Amtrak. One chef and one or two wait staff could easily serve an Amtrak dining car and put out good food cheaply, It can be done in the same conditions on the ground so it can be done on a train. the only only difference is cooking at 0mph or 80-110mph.

Please..... Nooooooooooo...

What a nightmare, turning an Amtrak diner into a Waffle House. Please don't...

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hmm, why don't Amtrak just bring back something like the Harvey Houses? Make rest stops by the rails at large stations. The (LD) train dosen't compete on speed anyway, so stopping an extra 15-30 minutes at a major stop won't be that bad. Of course it actually takes more like 30-45 to eat, but there's already long service stops and the pax don't have much to do other than walk around and smoke.

Amtrak could also sell the food to anyone passing by to avoid making a loss.

 

[Ryan]

What do you do when you are running 6 hours late? Meals are time based, not place based.

 

[jebr]

Hmm, why don't Amtrak just bring back something like the Harvey Houses? Make rest stops by the rails at large stations. The (LD) train dosen't compete on speed anyway, so stopping an extra 15-30 minutes at a major stop won't be that bad. Of course it actually takes more like 30-45 to eat, but there's already long service stops and the pax don't have much to do other than walk around and smoke.

Amtrak could also sell the food to anyone passing by to avoid making a loss.

Until the train is 10 hours late due to UP putting it in the hole and none of the Harvey Houses are placed where people actually want to eat.

Also, an extra three hours a day (assuming an hour a meal) adds up over a 3 day run.

 

[TVRM610]

The #1 problem I see with Amtrak dining cars is consistency of service and food preparation. Before you can fix that it really doesn't matter if you model the cars after Waffle House, Panera Bread, or an Outback Steakhouse.

Once you get consistently good service and food prep... Then you can tweak menu items.

When properly prepared (notice *when* ) the current Amtrak food is on par with most America chain restaurants (Chili's, Applebee's, etc.)

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hmm, why don't Amtrak just bring back something like the Harvey Houses? Make rest stops by the rails at large stations. The (LD) train dosen't compete on speed anyway, so stopping an extra 15-30 minutes at a major stop won't be that bad. Of course it actually takes more like 30-45 to eat, but there's already long service stops and the pax don't have much to do other than walk around and smoke.

Amtrak could also sell the food to anyone passing by to avoid making a loss.

Until the train is 10 hours late due to UP putting it in the hole and none of the Harvey Houses are placed where people actually want to eat.

Also, an extra three hours a day (assuming an hour a meal) adds up over a 3 day run.

Yeah, I do see the problem there, but it wouldn't be 3 hours a day because of the long service stops Amtrak already has so it's more like 1.5 hours a day. The OTP is getting better on a lot of routes and a 2-hour delay shouldn't be too bad. If the delay is too much, Amtrak still has those emergency meals, right?

I see this as a last-ditch solution that's better than cutting all meal service or charging huge amounts of money for food.

 

[SarahZ]

Stopping at the Harvey Houses for X amount of time and then rounding the passengers back up to leave on time sounds like a logistical nightmare. It would be a bit like herding cats.

Think of how many passengers each train holds. They all have to eat at once, so you'd have a kitchen nightmare at the Harvey House. Additionally, how do you balance all the coach/sleeper checks? Instead of having, say, twelve reservation slots, you now have one. You can't space everything out. It's hard enough coordinating catering for a wedding with 200 guests. I can't imagine trying to do this, in 30-45 minutes, for a train full of people.

It would be cool to always be able to stop and have a restaurant meal, but with the train delays and the things I mentioned above, I just don't see how the crew could do this. Plus, I love eating on the train. That's part of the ambiance. I like the dining car. I like the flower vases. I like the plastic china. If I want to eat at a restaurant, I'll do that at home. I want to eat on the train.

 

[dlagrua]

The Harvey House, hotels, restaurants, lunch counters, and newsstands, started at the turn of the century and existed until 1968. AFAIK they were located in stations (as in CHI, STL and LAX) and throughout the S.W. in places near train stations. They had a close relationship with the Santa Fe railroad and for a time ran the dining cars on the Santa Fe Chief. I cannot see evidence that trains ever stopped at a Harvey House solely to provide meals for the passengers and if that would be tried, like Sarah said, it would be a logistical nightmare. What might work is if Amtrak in a new operation phase used a private contractor to provide meal service but if a corporation really wanted it, wouldn't that be a topic of discussion in Washington.

Here is an idea to save money. Keep Amtrak dining car personal onboard only until meals are served. Then the crew gets off the train at a designated station and they catch the train back home in the other direction. A new crew gets on before breakfast the next day, stays until lunch and then gets off heads back on the train and a new crew comes on for dinner. This way all of the sleepers could be sold generating more revenue for Amtrak and meal quality would not further decline. Why is this a good or bad idea?

BTW, those who are interested can still dine at Harvey House successor restaurants here:

http://www.xanterra.com/what-we-do/restaurants/

 

[Ted C]

I like the dining car. I like the flower vases. I like the plastic china. If I want to eat at a restaurant, I'll do that at home. I want to eat on the train.

I want, I like, I need...OK fine, how much are you willing to pay for those desires? The answer to that question determines many things. As the cost for union labor and supplies spiral higher, while the wages earned by average Americans (those pesky passengers) continue to decline, I see no way for Amtrak to maintain the present service levels in dining cars.

 

[SarahZ]

Considering I pay $600 for a roomette, I'd say the cost of the plastic china is covered.

 

[Ispolkom]

Harvey Houses worked well, because they relied on cheap female labor at a time when there weren't many jobs available for respectable women. See The Harvey Girls: Women Who Opened the West . They really could quickly efficiently feed a trainload of passengers, and AFAIK the only reason railroads like the Santa Fe adopted dining cars was competition for passengers. Passengers preferred dining cars, while railroads hated them because the railroad still had to operate beaneries at stations, and the additional cost of dining cars was a dead loss. Dining Car to the Pacific has a good discussion of these issues, as I recall.

In the last decade of dining on Amtrak, I've found that food has settled to a much greater uniformity. The vegetables are always tasteless, and the salad is always out of a bag, but most of the rest of the meals are pretty much the same on ever train now. That is much different from 10 years ago, when you could reach the heights and plumb the lows on a single trip. I can't argue with Crescent's bad experience on the Crescent, since I never take that train, but I've found the food on most Superliner dining cars pretty similar.

I've personally never understood the allure of replacing Amtrak food with that of Waffle House (don't they get hashbrowns out of a carton?), but then again I'm a Yankee, who'd also never mix tomato juice with gin.

 

[amamba]

Ispolkom you are missing our by sticking with cranberry. OJ is great with gin - but grapefruit is even better.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Ispolkom you are missing our by sticking with cranberry. OJ is great with gin - but grapefruit is even better.

I don't know about Gin but the Wax Carton Orange Juice offered on Amtrak is pretty nasty when mixed with Vodka. The Cranberry Juice or even the Apple Juice is fine for a Vodka Mixer though.

 

[Ispolkom]

Ispolkom you are missing our by sticking with cranberry. OJ is great with gin - but grapefruit is even better.

One can't argue about taste. On the other hand, the orange juice does mix well with the little bottles of sparkling wine, especially with a couple of drops of orange bitters. On one nearly empty #8 long ago, Mrs. Ispolkom and I boarded in St. Paul and encountered a SCA who was insistent that we finish off her store of little champagne bottles. We managed to oblige her by the time we reached Coilumbus. Mixing them with orange juice, we had a very cheery morning.

 

[railbuck]

Here is an idea to save money. Keep Amtrak dining car personal onboard only until meals are served. Then the crew gets off the train at a designated station and they catch the train back home in the other direction. A new crew gets on before breakfast the next day, stays until lunch and then gets off heads back on the train and a new crew comes on for dinner. This way all of the sleepers could be sold generating more revenue for Amtrak and meal quality would not further decline. Why is this a good or bad idea?

Sounds fine in theory, but implementation could be difficult. Pick any LD train and show us from the schedule how this would work when the train is (a) on time, and (b) late.