Atlantic Coast (Silver/Palmetto/Carolinian) Service discussion Q4 2023 - 2024 H1

[Oreius]

Today’s Silver Star (91) has 3 coaches and 2 sleepers. I’ve been riding this train at least twice a year and it always seems to have only had 2 or 3 coaches. The only time it had 5 was when the Star and Meteor were combined during Covid. In 2019, the Star had 4 coaches. Is this due to an equipment shortage?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Today’s Silver Star (91) has 3 coaches and 2 sleepers. I’ve been riding this train at least twice a year and it always seems to have only had 2 or 3 coaches. The only time it had 5 was when the Star and Meteor were combined during Covid. In 2019, the Star had 4 coaches. Is this due to an equipment shortage?

Poor utilization, crew base issues, how management bonuses are reward. With the addition bonus of an arcane accounting system.

Additional issues like station platforms length. Price buckets based on number of spaces/seats left in inventory. Pulling power of the locomotive. Head End Power (HEP) requirements. Maintenance schedule and cycles.

There a lot of factors that require energy and effort to overcome. So you can run a longer trains. With various teams and force pushing back on doing so. Management has always been transitional. So a project will move forward into someone change jobs, then people lose interest in finishing it.

 

[jis]

Today’s Silver Star (91) has 3 coaches and 2 sleepers. I’ve been riding this train at least twice a year and it always seems to have only had 2 or 3 coaches. The only time it had 5 was when the Star and Meteor were combined during Covid. In 2019, the Star had 4 coaches. Is this due to an equipment shortage?

Star occasionally had 4 Coaches, but its base has been 3 Coaches for a long time from even before Covid. Currently there are no plans to allocate more than 3 to the Star on an ongoing basis. It is the Meteor that might get an additional Coach.

There are no HEP or platform length or locomotive power issues that causes the number of cars to be what they are in the Star and the Meteor at present. One could argue that way too many Amfleet II Coaches are allocated to trains that are not long distance trains thus limiting availability for LD trains, but that is neither here nor there. The issue with mothballing of Viewliners is well known and it is also well known that it is being reversed this year so more will become available in the next FY. In any case the Meteor is likely to get an additional Sleeper and Coach for the summer season.

 

[Oreius]

I was almost left behind at DC today. I wanted to watch them “swap” out the locomotives. I never heard the All-Aboard call—train wasn’t scheduled to leave until 304 PM—it was 2:55 PM. I turned to make sure and everyone was back aboard and the doors closed!! Fortunately a conductor saw me and was able to let me on. She told me you can’t hear the call up there. I was up in front of the first coach. I’m pointing this out, so no “curious onlooker” gets left behind!

I was standing right there, just as a reference. Train-side like the crew said…

 

[Palmland]

Saw the Meteor in Deland with usual consists. Coaches were sort of clean, sleepers filthy. Pristine Chargers looked good. New Sunrail parking lot mostly paved, roof on the new platform canopy roof mostly finished and working on the attached small raised platform presumably for disabled access- wonder if that’s for Amtrak? I thought new platform was strictly Sunrail.

 

[JoeRids]

This may have been discussed before, but I often wondered why Amtrak doesn’t make the Silver Star a New York- Tampa train with a coach train from Tampa to Miami, connecting with the Star at Lakeland both ways? This would save through passengers heading/originating south the silly Tampa detour and hours of travel time, plus it would reduce expenses in serving 2 dining car meals. The coach/business class train could be maintained and crewed from Miami, and the Silver Star crews could work out of NY, and/or Miami crew deadheads joining the train at Lakeland.

 

[joelkfla]

the attached small raised platform presumably for disabled access- wonder if that’s for Amtrak? I thought new platform was strictly Sunrail.

That's standard on all SunRail platforms.

 

[BlackDiamond]

This may have been discussed before, but I often wondered why Amtrak doesn’t make the Silver Star a New York- Tampa train with a coach train from Tampa to Miami, connecting with the Star at Lakeland both ways? This would save through passengers heading/originating south the silly Tampa detour and hours of travel time, plus it would reduce expenses in serving 2 dining car meals. The coach/business class train could be maintained and crewed from Miami, and the Silver Star crews could work out of NY, and/or Miami crew deadheads joining the train at Lakeland.

Would servicing the diner and cafe at NY be sufficient for a round trip or do they need to restock at Miami? They would lose this by terminating in Tampa.

 

[jis]

Would servicing the diner and cafe at NY be sufficient for a round trip or do they need to restock at Miami? They would lose this by terminating in Tampa.

They are restocked in Miami/Hialeah. Tampa used to have both the ability to restock a train and service and turn a train in the past. It has all been removed and is unlikely to return as things stand, specially for just a single LD train. So trains will need to either go to Miami, or as an outside chance, to Sanford, to be restocked and turned.

Recently the station yard area was cleaned up in Tampa and all vestiges of the previous facilities and redundant tracks removed. All that is left now are two platform tracks, one with a high level platform and the other with a low level platform. within a fenced off area. Everything else has been cleaned out and part of the yard area converted to what appears to be a makeshift parking lot.

Having said that, there is a Corridor ID proposal to run twice daily round trips on the route JAX - ORL - TPA - WPB - MIA, and apparently FDOT is involved at some level, exactly how seriously is not clear at this time. No timelines but only rumbles of some activity. This will not affect the Silver Service trains in any way. They will continue to operate as is.

 

[BlackDiamond]

It would probably make more sense to have the Silver Star split at Lakeland and have a Tampa section with a sleeper and coaches for the hour or so trip to Tampa. For that short a duration you could get by without food service.

 

[NYP2NFL01]

What if Silver Star passengers could get off the train in Orlando, take an Amtrak-provided shuttle bus to MCO, and then have thru ticketing on Brightline to Miami?

 

[jis]

It would probably make more sense to have the Silver Star split at Lakeland and have a Tampa section with a sleeper and coaches for the hour or so trip to Tampa. For that short a duration you could get by without food service.

No. It won't make any sense whatsoever. First of all there is no trackage available to split a train at Lakeland. Secondly the idea of splitting in Lakeland is based on incorrect understanding of the geography. Such a split would have to be at Auburndale or East of there. The closest stop is Kissimmee which will never have the necessary trackage to split a train there, which basically pushes such a split back to Orlando.

Creating a Tampa terminating train would create a huge new increase in cost of operation that would get charged wholly to that train making it a prime target for discontinuance as soon as budgets get tight again. I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

 

[west point]

It would probably make more sense to have the Silver Star split at Lakeland and have a Tampa section with a sleeper and coaches for the hour or so trip to Tampa. For that short a duration you could get by without food service.

Very bad idea. Amtrak boards and de planes more passengers in Tampa for SE Florida than going to the north.

 

[railiner]

What if Silver Star passengers could get off the train in Orlando, take an Amtrak-provided shuttle bus to MCO, and then have thru ticketing on Brightline to Miami?

I don’t think Amtrak or Brightline have any intention of working together in their future business model…

 

[amtkstn]

What are the longer stops n the Star/Meteor?

 

[Palmland]

While the idea of splitting the Star at Lakeland might not work, certainly there is need for better service to Tampa from Orlando. The Orlando paper had an article about yet another expansion of I-4 in addition to the planned Brightline Tampa service, both years away. A drive on I-4 can take anywhere from 1.5 hours to 4. Traffic jams are one of the reasons the Braves left Disney for south Florida for their training complex.

Until then, if Amtrak truly wants to be useful, why not approach FDOT about a shuttle service between the two cities? The northbound Star does it in about 2 hours. Several Horizon coaches in a push pull arrangement would work. If necessary the train could overnight in Sanford for servicing. One crew might be able to make two round trips.

FDOT seems to have done a pretty good job of managing SunRail and it’s various expansions so they might be interested in some sort of short term partnership. In fact it might replace a couple Sunrail trains south of Orlando by making additional stops. Unfortunately CSX would also have to be part of the discussion.

 

[jis]

While the idea of splitting the Star at Lakeland might not work, certainly there is need for better service to Tampa from Orlando. The Orlando paper had an article about yet another expansion of I-4 in addition to the planned Brightline Tampa service, both years away. A drive on I-4 can take anywhere from 1.5 hours to 4. Traffic jams are one of the reasons the Braves left Disney for south Florida for their training complex.

Until then, if Amtrak truly wants to be useful, why not approach FDOT about a shuttle service between the two cities? The northbound Star does it in about 2 hours. Several Horizon coaches in a push pull arrangement would work. If necessary the train could overnight in Sanford for servicing. One crew might be able to make two round trips.

FDOT seems to have done a pretty good job of managing SunRail and it’s various expansions so they might be interested in some sort of short term partnership. In fact it might replace a couple Sunrail trains south of Orlando by making additional stops. Unfortunately CSX would also have to be part of the discussion.

FDOT is collaborating on a possible twice a day round trip state service on the route JAX - ORL - TPA - WPB - MIA funded initially through the Corridor ID program.

Sunrail cannot be extended absent the relevant counties joining the tax compact and contributing. As it is Sunrail is teetering on the brink as far as viable operating funding goes, now that FDOT is going to bow out as per the original agreement, and hand it over to the Counties. It appears Sunrail will be placed as a separate department under Lynx.

Of course it would make sense to put in place some reasonable through ticketing scheme not only between Sunrail (and TriRail) and whatever Florida Regional service materializes out of Corridor ID, such should be in place with the Silver service trains too.

 

[railiner]

Amtrak has long partnered with various transit agencies in the NEC, as well as in California, with thru ticketing and/or cross honoring certain types of tickets on some trains.
I am not aware of Brightline doing similar…

 

[JWM]

Having experience with this route even before Amtrak, I'm 74, what makes sense to me is to run Gulf Coast sections of both the "Star" and "Meteor" splitting them off at Jacksonville with the East Coast sections going down the FEC.

 

[pennyk]

What are the longer stops n the Star/Meteor?

Tampa (Star), Orlando, Jacksonville, Florence (Meteor), Raleigh (Star), Richmond, Washington DC (there may be more, but those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head).

 

[jis]

Tampa (Star), Orlando, Jacksonville, Florence (Meteor), Raleigh (Star), Richmond, Washington DC (there may be more, but those are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head).

The only one you missed seems to be Savannah for both.

 

[pennyk]

The only one you missed seems to be Savannah for both.

To me Savannah is not a "long" stop, but apparently it is for some. However, it was longer than usual during my last couple of trips.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I don’t think Amtrak or Brightline have any intention of working together in their future business model…

And I would not want them to do that either until Brightline is union and I have not clear indication that it is unionized. And that means on board and station based employees.

 

[PVD]

And I would not want them to do that either until Brightline is union and I have not clear indication that it is unionized. And that means on board and station based employees.

One of the reasons BF Florida doesn't want ties to the national network is to avoid most Federal oversight, and the NRLA/unionization in general. They have gone a different direction out West. They will be interstate, different scenario.

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

One of the reasons BF Florida doesn't want ties to the national network is to avoid most Federal oversight, and the NRLA/unionization in general. They have gone a different direction out West. They will be interstate, different scenario.

It is interesting how the company has gone in different directions. Out west signing with construction unions, and hopefully extending that to their own employees with a neutrality agreement. I am not sure if BL Florida us actively fighting unionization or not. Either way they are not getting my money when I have a union alternative.