Best of the Lounge Lizards

[NW cannonball]

Some kind of cheaper sleeping accommodation would be welcome to me - the no-meals cramped Slumbercoach was good for my needs way back when.

People sprawling on the SSL seats and on the floor don't bother me as long as there is a free seat or two to just sit in and maybe talk quietly. But the floor-and-seat-sleeping ones better not arrive before 2300 and be gone by 05:30

And not blocking the aisles.

Last coach trip, unusually, couldn't sleep in my seat - went downstairs and slept on the floor in the baggage part of the coach-baggage - very little baggage there and the carpet was not too gross. When I woke up at 05:30 and went back to my seat there were a few more people sleeping there.

I understand that on the very few remaining JR overnight trains there is an option to pay a bit extra for floor space - but that's in Japan.

 

[user 1215]

Unfortunately in Japan, the rail system is so efficient and the country is so small, they have to actually run the train slow to make a viable overnight train. And these are on par with major first class operations around the world - ie: the train cruises in Austrailia or India. I think there are only one or two 'blue trains' left. I doubt I'll ever get to experience them. My favorite trains to ride in Japan are the Limited Express. They are slower than the Shinkansen, cover longer distances than the commuters, and trolley-food service is offered. My favorite was the Azusa before it was rerouted. I was only in 10th grade or so the last time I rode it. But there was one point where it had to get a helper engine added to make the climb through the mountains. Now, a tunnel has eliminated the need for the helper. And more scenery is lost to miles of underground track... The country is just too small, though, for Rocky Mountaineer or even Empire Builder-esque type trains though there are several sightseeing day trains.

 

[PaulM]

I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.

Sure, the real reason has to do with availability of equipment, standardization of parts, etc. But you have to admit that AU'ers have claimed that most Americans would find 2nd class sleepers beneath their dignity, a cultural thing. But then they probably were confusing slumber coaches (slightly smaller roomettes) with couchettes (European hostel type open bunks).

 

[amamba]

I've seen many arguments against a second class sleeper (even made some myself). Can't recall any of them saying that the demand wasn't there.

Sure, the real reason has to do with availability of equipment, standardization of parts, etc. But you have to admit that AU'ers have claimed that most Americans would find 2nd class sleepers beneath their dignity, a cultural thing. But then they probably were confusing slumber coaches (slightly smaller roomettes) with couchettes (European hostel type open bunks).

There is absolutely no way, at this point in my life, that I would share a couchette type sleeper with a stranger.

It was fine when I was 20 and broke, though.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm a Fan of Slumber Coaches, they worked fine when i used to ride the Crescent from WAS-ATL Overnight! It really wouldnt cost that much to convert a few of the Amfleet Coaches to Slumber Coaches and once the New Viewliners are in Service possibly even have a few spots available in the Regular Sleepers (sans Meals)@ a Price between Coach and First class when they not Sold Out, this would replace the old Low Bucket Upgrade On-Board that Amtrak used to have ! Why not Raise revenue in an Empty Room??

Since I stay in Hostels so much ,and have made so many International Trips including riding in Very Crowded Third World Trains and Busses, I have no problem in sharing with Strangers when Traveling but I'm not a Female and I don't have a Privacy Fear! id be all in favor of Couchettes on our Trains, especially the Western 2 Night ones! YMMV

 

[Mark Del Monte]

You know what this shows? Not a bunch of a***es, instead it is the sad state of affairs at Amtrak. The lack of a sleeping accommodation that is more affordable to people. Not everyone is a retired rich couple on a land cruise with AGR earned sleeper bedroom. And get this, every human needs sleep. Nobody likes to sleep like this in lounge car on purpose, but when there is no better option, this is what happens. I must say on more than one occasion I have been tempted to sleep in the SSL when the coach was full and uncomfortable. Yes I know the self-righteous holier-than-thou bunch here will say "if you wanted to sleep you should have purchased a sleeper ticket". I wish life was so simple black and white. If the only accommodation option you provide costs half a dozen times as much as a coach seat for a single passenger, and you provide a lounge car that nowhere mentions sleeping is not allowed, I am going to use it to sleep. Deal with it.

I have to say I agree with Texan Eagle. Amtrak really needs more affordable sleeper accommodations.

But I have to say as a regualr Coach user (I can't afford a sleeper, only been in one twice; once when Amtrak overbooked, and gave us a free upgrade, and once to as a 'tour' by the attendant). The SSL is often the best place to sleep, I've done it a number of times. But then generally how many people are using the lounge as a lounge at 12am? 2am? (I will admit that 9pm is too early for sleeping in the lounge, I'd start heading there around 11-11:30p, and would really "settle in" until around midnight, or whenever everyone left). I was actually encouraged to sleep in the lounge on one trip by the conductor. I'll also admit I've never seen it as bad as pictured, the most I've seen were 5 people.

Additionally I was under the understanding that a "Lounge Lizard" was more of a day-time thing.

peter

I have to agree with Peter and Texas Eagle. When I was a kid even the cost of sleeper was outrageous for even 1980's and 90's standards. It actually has come down in price imho. Yet I stil can't afford a sleeper. When I was a kid me and my dad were both as you would call us "Lounge Lizzards". However we used the etiquette of arrive by 12 be gone and out before 6 when the lounge re opens. In fact the LSA on one of our CZ trips was nice enough to tap us on the shoulder and tell us she would be opening in 10 min and already had the coffee going. I am still miffed that Amtrak did not try to copy the seats on the old Santa Fe Hi Level cars. They went back so far that you did not need to sleep in the lounge. Todays Amtrak seats barely recline making the leg rest almost useless for comfort. The real answer would be Amtrak installing seats similar to airline international business. This could be a new class of coach with semi lie flat seats but no meals included or other amenities.

 

[the_traveler]

... when the lounge reopens ..."

Huh????? The Sightseer Lounge is open 24 hours a day - it doesn't close! So there goes that argument! (Yea, the CAFÉ does close, but the Lounge {Car} is open all night. So if you think you're sleeping in a closed car, you're wrong!)

 

[roomette]

there goes that argument!

He was arguing?

 

[Mark Del Monte]

No I'm not saying that it is a closed car at any point in a trip. Diner yes Lounge no. However as you said the food service portion does close overnight. When I have slept in the lounge car I have always slept downstairs and never have blocked an aisle or displaced someone from finding an open seat. However on the trains I have done it on there weren't exactly hundreds of people trying to sleep in there. Maybe me, my father, and a few others. All in all like I said at one time the older hi levels and the Heritage cars had extremely comfortable coach seats that were almost lie flat. In the early 90's even the superliners had more recline. I could get at least a few hours of shut eye in my coach seat. The last few times I have ridden a Superliner or Superliner II the recline seemed just slightly more than coach on an airliner. I get that a few more seats in coach equals more revenue but I think the permanent solution is a coach class with those nearly lie flat seats like you would find on an international flight in business class. You could have it where there are no extra perks above coach except for the seat. Price it between coach and sleeper.

 

[the_traveler]

there goes that argument!

He was arguing?

Argument = a reason given in proof or rebuttal, discourse intended to persuade (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

 

[roomette]

there goes that argument!

He was arguing?

Argument = a reason given in proof or rebuttal, discourse intended to persuade (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Thank you. I still don't think he was making an argument.

 

[JayPea]

there goes that argument!

He was arguing?

Argument = a reason given in proof or rebuttal, discourse intended to persuade (Merriam-Webster dictionary)

Thank you. I still don't think he was making an argument.

With apologies to Daddy Dewdrop :lol: don't ya jes' love it??? An argument over what constitutes an argument!!!!

 

[roomette]

You should be allowed to sleep in the SSL if you are a paying coach customer. But, not if you are using AGR.

 

[Aaron]

I am still miffed that Amtrak did not try to copy the seats on the old Santa Fe Hi Level cars. They went back so far that you did not need to sleep in the lounge. Todays Amtrak seats barely recline making the leg rest almost useless for comfort.

Yeah, why is this? There's enough seat pitch (legroom distance) to park a small car, yet the seats themselves hardly recline any more than airline seats. When my kids ride in coach, that legrest folds up to combine with the seat bottom to make a nice bed for them, but I have a really tough time sleeping in coach because the seats still feel like they're almost straight up. Even just a few more degrees of recline would make a huge difference.

 

[the_traveler]

The seats are straight up, and almost like a plane? In a LD Superliner or an Amfleet II? That I don't believe! In an Amfleet I, the California Cars and some Corridor Cars, but not on LD trains I don't.

 

[JayPea]

The seats are straight up, and almost like a plane? In a LD Superliner or an Amfleet II? That I don't believe! In an Amfleet I, the California Cars and some Corridor Cars, but not on LD trains I don't.

I don't recall encountering any Superliner where the seats didn't recline much more than in a plane.

 

[roomette]

I never saw an airline seat go back that far

 

[Aaron]

I never saw an airline seat go back that far

I can't say how representative that is of the Superliner LD seats I've ridden in. I don't know if there are multiple types or models. I do know that the angle of the picture seems to accentuate the recline. Here are a few airplane pictures that seem to show a similar degree of recline:

Whether or not these pictures are representative, what I know is that when I ride in coach, the seats feel like they hardly recline any more than airplane seats. What the seat feels like is probably the main determinant in whether or not I can sleep, not what it looks like in a picture.

 

[Interested]

Anyone ever see any "lounge lizards" on the Lake Shore Limited - or other single level trains?

 

[Alexandria Nick]

I almost exclusively ride in Superliners and their seat pitch is incredible compared to any airliner that's not, like, Emirates

 

[June the Coach Rider]

I never saw an airline seat go back that far

This is exactly what they do, I actually keep the leg rest up one more notch so it is straight out from the seat. and my feet rest on the foot rest at the level like the window seat.

 

[crescent2]

I never saw an airline seat go back that far

Me either. I WISH!!

The airline coach seats I've used "feel" like they barely go back two inches at the top. I'm sure it's more than that, but they don't feel like they recline much at all. Maybe that's just a perception.

 

[benjibear]

It should be simple that a person is allowed only one seat in the lounge. If somebody wants to use one of those seats the conductor should make them move. Very similar to when you are in coach. You can stretch out between two seats but if the train is full, you need to allow somebody to sit in the next seat.

I was just on the CL and got up at the crack of dawn and needed to stretch. I did go to the lounge and there was one guy sleeping in there but the car was mostly empty. It was a good experiance to be rolling through the towns and farms while most of the people slept and it was light enough to see.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Anyone ever see any "lounge lizards" on the Lake Shore Limited - or other single level trains?

Generally the Conductor hangs out in the Lounge @ Night on the Single Level Trains! I see Night Owls @ the Tables on these Trains but don't recall ever seeing any Lounge Lizards Sleeping there! Maybe the fact that there are no Couches or Chairs, only Tables has Something to do with it, plus the Lights aren't Lowered like on a Superliner Lounge! :unsure:

And it's been Years since I flew in Coach on an Airliner that Reclined as much as the Coach Seats in a Superliner! (Excellent Picture of the Coach Seat Reclined/the One with the Guys Knees Scrunched-up seems Current in Today's Airline Coach Seating!)) BC and First of Course are a Different Matter, but Amtrak doesn't charge $10,000 for Business or First Class Seats either!

 

[Bus Nut]

I get that a few more seats in coach equals more revenue but I think the permanent solution is a coach class with those nearly lie flat seats like you would find on an international flight in business class. You could have it where there are no extra perks above coach except for the seat. Price it between coach and sleeper.

I know Amtrak sees this differently (per the latest PIP), but I agree. On a train like CZ, you need comfy seats that recline all the way or practically all the way to get a good night's sleep in coach. If they keep reducing seat pitch I could see this turning into a perpetual lounge headache for patrons and crew. Not sure it's really worth it for an extra row of seats.

If you want to sleep upright and put a crick in your neck for less there's always Greyhound.

I wonder if the PIP team tried sleeping in coach as part of their study before making these "wonderful" recommendations. I wonder if they considered where the time out of the crews' day is going to come from to keep bathrooms non-nasty for even more people per car? Like it or not, Amtrak does turn people away by having nasty cars. Who wants sewer smell for 12 hours, a la Greyhound?