Bi-level Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement RFP discussion H2 2024

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I'm convinced that even when new bilevel rolling stock is rolling around the country there will still be a significant amount of bellyaching about how single-level would have been better. The RFP concepts are good cars, my only complaint is the elimination of the SSL for coach passengers.
 
Amtrak can not lengthen any platforms to accommodate single level trains, I don't think. In order to lengthen a low level platform for the purpose of accommodating single level trains, they would have to convert that platform to high level, which is in itself expensive. Additionally, the gauge issues of a high level platform might also require, as per the demands of the freight railroad, the construction of a siding track for that platform so that it doesn't interfere with the loading gauge of freight trains. That would cost a fortune in itself, and might also result in the need to relocate or eliminate the station building.

ADA is a thorn in everyones side, the way it is implemented.
Yeah, the ADA is a thorn in everyone's side.
Except they weren’t full lounges. They also contained five double bedrooms.
They would be nice though, as a “first class” lounge, as in their SAL role.
I mean, swapping bedrooms for lounge space on one end of the car seems to be easy enough to spec out. The point here is that it seems clear that a compatible design can be done under US standards.

As to the point about the RFP - yes, that's true, and Amtrak seems to have gotten a bunch of refusals to bid/non-interest in bidding and one "We might be able to do that" that's still facing technical issues, so I feel like the current state of the RFP should be considered in doubt.

[I do feel like the bidding issues should be enough for Amtrak to be able to get an ADA waiver for at least dual-level access, but single-level just feels like the path of least resistance here.]
 
Current FRA ADA rules allow building new low level platforms on tracks that regularly carry freight in addition to passenger trains. This rule was changed sometime back from the original more uncompromising rule about high level platforms always. Since then low level platforms have been extended at a few places. Apparently what FRA has done instead is strengthened rules for the provision of wheelchair lifts at select train doors going forward. Of course one still has to make a case showing that it involves an unreasonable cost to provide high level platform on a separate track or gauntlet track for the number of trains that are planned for use of the facility.

So for example if a station has to be built on a single track railroad that carries multiple freight trains a day for use by a single passenger train a day it is acceptable to use a low level platform with adequate facility on the train to handle wheelchair bound and/or otherwise mobility impaired passengers. But if you are building a new station for use by a dozen passenger trains a day on a track that has one freight train a day you might have to plan for high level platform with gauntlet track for the freight - just as an example of the considerations that have to be balanced to arrive at an acceptable decision.
 
Current FRA ADA rules allow building new low level platforms on tracks that regularly carry freight in addition to passenger trains. This rule was changed sometime back from the original more uncompromising rule about high level platforms always. Since then low level platforms have been extended at a few places. Apparently what FRA has done instead is strengthened rules for the provision of wheelchair lifts at select train doors going forward. Of course one still has to make a case showing that it involves an unreasonable cost to provide high level platform on a separate track or gauntlet track for the number of trains that are planned for use of the facility.

So for example if a station has to be built on a single track railroad that carries multiple freight trains a day for use by a single passenger train a day it is acceptable to use a low level platform with adequate facility on the train to handle wheelchair bound and/or otherwise mobility impaired passengers. But if you are building a new station for use by a dozen passenger trains a day on a track that has one freight train a day you might have to plan for high level platform with gauntlet track for the freight - just as an example of the considerations that have to be balanced to arrive at an acceptable decision.

What is the clearance issue about freight trains and high level platforms? How much offset is required by the 'gauntlet' track to satisfy that clearance?
Instead of building the gauntlet tracks thru the station, couldn't they just have the high platform with a larger gap, and have bridge plates deploy from each train door, either manual or powered? Which method would be more economical? 🤔
 
Reference: FRA's 2022 ADA Platform Construction Guidance

One example of high-platform freight clearance requirements: STRACNET, page 38
- The line is designated by the Department of Defense (DoD) as a Strategic Rail Corridor
Network (STRACNET) route, which requires appropriate clearance capability for oversize
DoD cargo. STRACNET is an interconnected and continuous rail line network consisting
of over 36,000 miles of track serving over 120 defense installations. High-level platforms
on the mainline of STRACNET routes have an additional offset of 18 to 20 inches for a
total offset of 7 feet and 1 inch to 7 feet and 3 inches off centerline of the track.
 
STRACNET clearance are there for oversized DOD cargos so regular gauntlet tracks need to be further offset. The only route that can really handle longer trains than posted would be the City of Everywhere thru Wyoming. That IMO just says it is Superliner style trains all routes west.

If enough Superliner cars were now available now the CZ, Starlight, and EB could probably sell 15 Superliner passenger car trains. Probably also the Eagle as it had 10 one day this past week. The SWC and CNO probably not. The Sunset needs daily service to tell but once west of SAS then it with the Eagle probably yes.
 
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STRACNET clearance are there for oversized DOD cargos so regular gauntlet tracks need to be further offset. The only route that can really handle longer trains than posted would be the City of Everywhere thru Wyoming. That IMO just says it is Superliner style trains all routes west.

If enough Superliner cars were now available now the CZ, Starlight, and EB could probably sell 15 Superliner passenger car trains. Probably also the Eagle as it had 10 one day this past week. The SWC and CNO probably not. The Sunset needs daily service to tell but once west of SAS then it with the Eagle probably yes.
I think this claim is dubious. On the one hand, I suspect the Eagle might be able to do so up on CHI-STL, where it shares the route with other corridor trains (and where, IIRC, a coach was cut out regularly a decade or two back). Further south, I'm not so sure.

As to the others - the Zephyr, in particular, is very seasonal. You could probably fill the train up close to 15 cars in summer, but you'd be back down to about six or seven in the winter. I did an analysis like a decade ago on here (good luck finding it with the search function) where I found that the Zephyr's summer ridership was like 2.5x the winter ridership. The Builder isn't as dramatic in terms of variation (there's a bit more "local utility" along the Hi-Line due to the lack of an interstate up there), but it still varies a lot. This is probably a good time to point out that the split fleet problem means that you can't move those cars to e.g. the Florida trains (where there was basically no variation - all of the variations in ridership on those trains plus the Crescent were down to service disruptions, such as the Crescent being truncated to Atlanta for part of a few weeks due to track work).

It's worth noting that, per some data from the Washington State DOT rail plan back in 2013 [1], the Builder's ridership was at a substantial historical high in 2007 (at 554k riders). The Coast Starlight actually ran somewhat higher back in the 1980s/90s (this is probably why it was picked for the PPC project - it was touching 600k/yr repeatedly). In both cases, while equipment shortages haven't helped, the main culprit behind ridership declines have been reliability breakdowns which take years to recover from.

Worth noting, too, is the fact that the Starlight hasn't run with more than three sleepers, a transdorm, the three service cars (PPC, diner, SSL), and a somewhat-variable number of coaches plus a baggage car in a long, long time. In the meantime, I think the Builder had something like three sleepers (two SEA, one PDX), four coaches (two/two I think?), two amenity cars (SSL/diner), and a baggage car (one of the coaches was a coach-bag), plus an additional coach CHI-MSP. The point of all of this is that no Superliner train has run longer than about 11 cars, and when doing so you could accommodate 500-600k riders/yr.

Pushing that out to 15 cars would (1) either seriously stress F&B capacity or (2) require an additional F&B car, and would probably imply ridership up in the ballpark of 650-800k riders per year, depending on questions of whether you add coaches vs sleepers as well as seat turnover and where your "pressure points" (that is, segments where ridership peaks out, thereby squeezing out other through-riders - the Zephyr has two (west of Reno and west of Denver) but also has an infamous "ridership crater" between Reno and SLC) end up being. With the Builder, I think there's a strong case that if you're climbing up towards 15 cars you should be having a very serious talk about making 7/8 and 27/28 into separate trains, though that's a separate discussion in some respects.

[1] https://www.aawa.us/site/assets/files/7322/2014_wsdot_state_rail_plan_2013-2035.pdf
 
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