Blackout Times & Peak Rates

[Hal]

I was talking of shutting down AU, not AGR. That was in response to DA's mention about the selection of a, what turned out to be IMHO, not very customer sensitive or competent hosting service.

The Amtrak program has just become more like airline programs, with an interesting twist or two. I am ambivalent about it and since it does not have any lifetime status thing there is little incentive to try to collect TQP anymore, since from my vantage point the privileges of Amtrak status are not that useful any more.

Then again I have hardly ever been a prime Amtrak customer, so my absence will hardly be noticed.

It has become more like an airline program because Amtrak has been hiring airline people and airline contractors.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Anderson]

I was talking of shutting down AU, not AGR. That was in response to DA's mention about the selection of a, what turned out to be IMHO, not very customer sensitive or competent hosting service.

The Amtrak program has just become more like airline programs, with an interesting twist or two. I am ambivalent about it and since it does not have any lifetime status thing there is little incentive to try to collect TQP anymore, since from my vantage point the privileges of Amtrak status are not that useful any more.

Then again I have hardly ever been a prime Amtrak customer, so my absence will hardly be noticed.

Well, the "not screwing you as badly" aspect is still there with upper tier status.

One thing I have to wonder: If Amtrak and AGR as we know them now had been what was in place back in 2008-10, would I have ever taken Amtrak as much as I did? I highly doubt it.

 

[jis]

I don't think the presence of AGR played a significant role in my decisions to take Amtrak, except for some "points runs", to fill in a few points to the next status level. Now that there is close to zero chance of reaching a status that even remotely matters - S+, is unlikely since I have not budgeted spending something of the order of $5000 on Amtrak ( that much money gets me a round trip business class ticket to India and back, which really is way more important for me), I guess we part ways amicably in a manner of speaking, since I actually doubt that my Amtrak riding habits in the Florida incarnation of me will change much. Just that AGR status won't be a goal anymore.

 

[Anderson]

With me there would probably have been less of a push for status and so on...I first really decided that Amtrak was "worth my time" for long-haul trips due to a massive influx of points from the "Take Ten" offer (I guess that would have been in 2011). I already had a pretty pile of points at that point (from a few LD trips in 2008-10) so that put me over 20k and enabled me to plan out a nice, long Amtrak-based vacation (IIRC I got the credit card in the aftermath of that and ended up using 40k points to travel RVR-ABQ (cash ABQ-FLG) and LAX-DAL (via KCY/STL)). The remnants of that trip are still visible in my signature (when I didn't know how I was getting home).

 

[copyright1997]

I've been a fairly long term Amtrak rider and joined Amtrak rewards around 2000. Many, many hundreds of trips (mostly, but not exclusively work related), and took the train whenever possible over driving, a bus, planes, etc. I've instilled that love of trains into my son, who has pretty much memorized the entire Amtrak route system timetables and stations (at least for all of the long distance trains). It would not surprise me at all if he eventually ends up as an Amtrak employee, and we even have a neighbor who is a conductor on Amtrak. I've also emphasized Amtrak Rewards over other programs as a "good deal" to friends and family, with not only my trips but also the Amtrak Rewards Master Card and on top of that transferring points from Starwood to Amtrak.

Having said that, with the program changes (and on top of that this latest piece of unwelcome news which to me is pretty unscrupulous ), I will pretty much wrap up my use of Amtrak (at least for longer distance travel). I still have 15k or so points sitting around, which I will use up under the new program instead of booking revenue fares. I already have booked (on the old program) one last cross country extravaganza using 60k points. Not that Amtrak is following this thread, or even cares what I do, but just as a data point they are losing someone with multiple trips/year, use of over 30k year in CC spend to them along with extra points transfers from other program. I can't control what Amtrak does, only what I do.

I guess it is time to move on, its been great while it lasted.

 

[tricia]

I've been a fairly long term Amtrak rider and joined Amtrak rewards around 2000. Many, many hundreds of trips (mostly, but not exclusively work related), and took the train whenever possible over driving, a bus, planes, etc. I've instilled that love of trains into my son, who has pretty much memorized the entire Amtrak route system timetables and stations (at least for all of the long distance trains). It would not surprise me at all if he eventually ends up as an Amtrak employee, and we even have a neighbor who is a conductor on Amtrak. I've also emphasized Amtrak Rewards over other programs as a "good deal" to friends and family, with not only my trips but also the Amtrak Rewards Master Card and on top of that transferring points from Starwood to Amtrak.

Having said that, with the program changes (and on top of that this latest piece of unwelcome news which to me is pretty unscrupulous ), I will pretty much wrap up my use of Amtrak (at least for longer distance travel). I still have 15k or so points sitting around, which I will use up under the new program instead of booking revenue fares. I already have booked (on the old program) one last cross country extravaganza using 60k points. Not that Amtrak is following this thread, or even cares what I do, but just as a data point they are losing someone with multiple trips/year, use of over 30k year in CC spend to them along with extra points transfers from other program. I can't control what Amtrak does, only what I do.

I guess it is time to move on, its been great while it lasted.

Me too, all the above. Haven't traveled as many miles as you, but have chosen Amtrak over other modes whenever I could--built whole vacations around their skeletal network and thin schedule. And I've talked with dozens of people about Amtrak being a great way to travel, and AGR a "good deal." Not any more.

I particularly resent being lied to in the lead-up to this new program. Maybe not explicit "lies" but definitely misleading, unscrupulous, shabby. Such a pointlessly poor way to manage customer relations.

 

[PaulM]

For instance, an end to end, Chicago to DC trip:
3/24: $98 seat, $264 roomette, $498 bedroom

3,381 pts seat, 9,108 pt roomette, 34,362 pt bedroom

3/25: $98 seat, $325 roomette, $400 bedroom

3,381 pts seat, 22,425 pt roomette, 13,800 pt bedroom

This is totally inconsistent with the intent of AGR 2.0 and is internally non consistent. So for arbitrary dates, buckets, or trips, the number of points doubles?

Nothing inconsistent or arbitrary about 3/25. It must be the day before Casimir Pulaski day; and the Capitol Limited originates in Chicago. Oh, and of course Casimir Pulaski devotees are much more likely to book a roomette than a bedroom.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

For instance, an end to end, Chicago to DC trip:
3/24: $98 seat, $264 roomette, $498 bedroom

3,381 pts seat, 9,108 pt roomette, 34,362 pt bedroom

3/25: $98 seat, $325 roomette, $400 bedroom

3,381 pts seat, 22,425 pt roomette, 13,800 pt bedroom

This is totally inconsistent with the intent of AGR 2.0 and is internally non consistent. So for arbitrary dates, buckets, or trips, the number of points doubles?

Nothing inconsistent or arbitrary about 3/25. It must be the day before Casimir Pulaski day; and the Capitol Limited originates in Chicago. Oh, and of course Casimir Pulaski devotees are much more likely to book a roomette than a bedroom.

3/25 is the Friday before Easter, so it could be considered a peak day

 

[Anderson]

Oh, agreed that it could...and it looks like we're going to see far more roomette/bedroom "inversions" as a side-effect of this if roomettes are what are usually getting hit with a "penalty price" (I'm inclined to go with that..."surge pricing", Uber notwithstanding, is a bit neutral...I'd like to stick a 50-100% surcharge with a negative term if possible).

 

[rtabern]

Wow, seriously?? Just getting in on this conversation. So, now, sometimes sleepers are going to be DOUBLE what was initially promised with the AGR 2.0 fare calculator? SERIOUSLY??? If that is the case, then it's even more reason to burn or transfer as many AGR points as possible... and as quickly as possible.

I was a "saver"... and had over 300,000 AGR points built up when the announcement came. I burned about half that on an 11-day bedroom cross-country trip for late April and early May 2016. We will be going from Chicago to DC to Florida to New Orleans... back to Chicago... to LA... upto PDX... and back to LAX. This will really be our last time ever doing something like this in a bedroom.

I have 150K points left --- and --- after reading this --- just transferred 50K to Choice Hotels --- which will be changed to 45K Southwest Airlines Rapid Reward Points.

A 45K point transfer like that counts towards the Companion Pass --- so open a credit card for 50K --- and you are most of the way towards earning the Companion Pass. We did that for 2016 and it's an awesome perk. We will be well on our way towards our 2017 Companion Pass with that nice transfer out of AGR points. (Note you have to be S+ or SE to transfer to Choice --- 50K cap for S+ and unlimited for SE)

I still have 100K left --- I will probably transfer another 50K out to Choice between 1/1/17 and 2/28/17 --- and then just burn off the remaining 50K on the Hoosier State and other travel.

It's sad to see such a great program end, but it was almost too good to be true. As I have said, my attitude is Amtrak and AGR felt like it had to do what was best for it -- so it had every right to make the changes it did. Reciprocally, we will do what is best for our travel needs and our family... and that will be to dramatically reduce our Amtrak travel immediately (or after we take our trip in April/May 2016).

The hardest pill for me to swallow was the 100 point minimum cut. So instead of earning 300 points (200 rail + 100 S+ bonus) from Chicago to Glenview, IL under AGR 1.0 -- I will be earning just 40 points under AGR 2.0. That is almost a 90% reduction in the number of points one can earn. Yes, I would purposely do short runs to earn Select Plus status for access to the Met Lounge in Chicago and the Club Acela out east.

With the above mention cut, it means an end to my Select Plus status and lounge access -- which I have had for 10 years --- effective 2/28/17. I am just not as inclined to travel on Amtrak without the nice lounges to wait in and the free drinks and snacks -- but especially the priority boarding privileges. And no, it's not worth it to pay $40 for my wife and I to board via the Legacy Club. And, guess what? Even if you opt to pay the $500 for the annual pass to the Legacy Club... you are going to have to still pay an additional $10 per use of priority boarding!!! No way!!!

Now, under AGR 2.0, you have to pay basically $5,000 to keep your Select Plus status. That was versus $800.00 under AGR 1.0 by doing "point runs". I love Amtrak and my trips --- but if I have a spare $5,000 to drop on a train trip --- it's certainly not going to be on Amtrak. I am going to ride the Canadian or a private rail car trip where the food is much better --- I'm not limited to coffee and free juice for just 5 hours in the morning --- my water isn't limited to just two bottles for upto a 3 night, 4 day trip --- etc., etc.

And yes, maybe I am a "train snob", but we only really like traveling overnight in a bedroom -- where we can sleep next to each other and have more space -- especially for anything more than a 1 night trip. I'd rather fly than do coach or even a roomette most of the time.

People who are married or like to travel with someone are also burned even more with AGR 2.0 --- so now my companion will cost me extra points?

In the end, maybe some will feel we "played the system" with short point runs and then redeeming them for bedrooms. Oh, well. We were still paying $6-10 per ride on the Hiawatha for each trip -- and bumping up the ridership stats on that train by 100-200 riders per year for each of the last 10 years we have been doing AGR.

Yes, just stinks all around. Again, Amtrak and it's AGR employees have to do what they want and what is best for them -- and we will do what is best for us. Just that simple. I will always remember and treasure the rides that we did on Amtrak and the great deal we got under AGR 1.0, but as they say -- all good things come to an end. We will focus our efforts on doing trips with the Southwest Airlines Companion Pass and saving 50% on every flight that we take now... so more flying and visiting National Parks -- and less time on the train. Everyone else who likes AGR 2.0 -- that is cool -- enjoy your shorter rides that are a better value sometimes.

 

[City of Miami]

Nothing inconsistent or arbitrary about 3/25. It must be the day before Casimir Pulaski day; and the Capitol Limited originates in Chicago. Oh, and of course Casimir Pulaski devotees are much more likely to book a roomette than a bedroom.

Spring Break. Flying is expensive that week too.....I know, I'm trying to get back from MIA.

 

[jis]

Actually you have to spend $4000 if you travel exclusively by Business Class to make Select+. Don't forget the 25% TQP bonus for BC.

 

[me_little_me]

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

To lighten things up a little, let us remember that Antony is also the person that said:

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;

I come to bury AGR 1.0, not to praise it.

The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones;

So let it be with AGR 1.0.

 

[Anderson]

I never considered "exchanging out" AGR points per above, but now I'm giving it at least some consideration. Hindsight is 20/20 but had this been disclosed at the start of the whole affair I might well have cashed out the majority of my AGR points for something else (180,000 SkyPesos would get me two round-trips to London, for example)...the ability to effectively earn 6-8 points per dollar spent on Amtrak for, for example, Virgin Atlantic would at this point be more valuable than the AGR points themselves. A lot of the issue for me is just the fact that instead of having "fixed value" redemptions (e.g. the zone map) or even "clearly tied to cost redemptions" (e.g. what we were told in no uncertain terms this was) there's no clear link.

I will say that in general I don't dispute AGR's right to change the program. Where I'm "over the moon" on this is the misleading presentation of the new program and on that I consider their behavior to be immoral. Generally they've got the right to change the program (I'd take exception if there were a "surprise snap devaluation" but they've been pretty good about not doing that), it's misleading everyone on that front.

 

[Anderson]

I agree. If we're going to blame Antony for anything we should probably keep it limited to decisions that were his alone to make. Such as handing the forum over to an invasive spam host with similar warnings as the current blackout date fiasco. Sorry for not defending our dear leader from every possible criticism but I'm still rather salty over that decision.

To lighten things up a little, let us remember that Antony is also the person that said:

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;

I come to bury AGR 1.0, not to praise it.

The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones;

So let it be with AGR 1.0.

That is...painfully apt.

 

[jis]

Oh judgement! Though art fled to Brutish beasts

And men have lost their reason

Bear with me

My heart is in the coffin there with AGR 1.0

I must pause till it come back to me.

That is the end of the first section of that speech duly modified to AGR. I used the original in declamation contests at least three times!

 

[rtabern]

Actually you have to spend $4000 if you travel exclusively by Business Class to make Select+. Don't forget the 25% TQP bonus for BC.

Very true, Jis. But, $5,000 in sleeping car fares still to reach S+. Money still better spent on a better overall experience on VIA or a PV chater.

 

[jis]

Yes of course it does change the threshold for choice points. The irony is though that this exactly may be what Amtrak was shooting for. It may be that they made a conscious decision to not give away as much as they for as little. I don't know for sure. Just positing a possibility in the realm of such.

 

[JoeBas]

Yes of course it does change the threshold for choice points. The irony is though that this exactly may be what Amtrak was shooting for. It may be that they made a conscious decision to not give away as much as they for as little. I don't know for sure. Just positing a possibility in the realm of such.

The problem is that in trying to throw out the "Serial gamer" bathwater, they're throwing out the "regular traveler" baby as well!

 

[neroden]

I was talking of shutting down AU, not AGR. That was in response to DA's mention about the selection of a, what turned out to be IMHO, not very customer sensitive or competent hosting service.

The Amtrak program has just become more like airline programs, with an interesting twist or two. I am ambivalent about it and since it does not have any lifetime status thing there is little incentive to try to collect TQP anymore, since from my vantage point the privileges of Amtrak status are not that useful any more.

Then again I have hardly ever been a prime Amtrak customer, so my absence will hardly be noticed.

It has become more like an airline program because Amtrak has been hiring airline people and airline contractors.

Oh dear. That is *always* a mistake.

The airline business may have lost more money than any other business in world history, and is certainly in the top ten Warren Buffett said (not entirely a joke) that if the Wright Brothers had been shot down at Kitty Hawk it would have saved investors billions upon billions of dollars. Their customer service reputation has been zilch since the end of regulation in the 1970s. It is completely crazy of Amtrak to hire anyone from the airlines. Maybe it's not quite necessary to *blacklist* people who worked at airlines, but it should count as worthless on a resume.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Totally agree that Airline experience should be a dis-qualifier for Amtrak hiring!( pilots and flight attendants not included!)

 

[me_little_me]

As a reminder to folks comparing prices, don't forget that Points are based on ADULT fares with no discounts - not Senior, AAA, NAARP or VA Advantage. When looking up a potential trip, I forgot that and thought the points "price" was a rip until I changed the "seniors" back to "adults" and found the explanation. Doesn't make me happy but I remember it being discussed back when. Had forgotten.

 

[Ryan]

I'm going to be crazy again and suggest that resumes be judged individually without rules like "no airline experience".

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm going to be crazy again and suggest that resumes be judged individually without rules like "no airline experience".

How about no ex-Naval Officers need apply?

 

[Anderson]

Cue another session of baby-splitting, but I think it's fair to say that for certain positions "looking unfavorably towards" applications from folks who've been at transportation companies with certain cultures might not be a bad idea and/or might merit a grilling at the interview stage, if only because corporate cultures are like bacterial cultures in many ways...one being that if not properly isolated, spreading infections can develop. Not a "hard bar" but...well, let's face it, if someone wandered in from RyanAir or Spirit I wouldn't be inclined to hire them.