Blackout Times & Peak Rates

[Ryan]

That's reasonable, and it depends on what they have to say. If they walk in and say "While I was there, I learned that their business model is terrible, no way to run a railroad", they're probably worth looking at.

 

[Railroad Bill]

As a reminder to folks comparing prices, don't forget that Points are based on ADULT fares with no discounts - not Senior, AAA, NAARP or VA Advantage. When looking up a potential trip, I forgot that and thought the points "price" was a rip until I changed the "seniors" back to "adults" and found the explanation. Doesn't make me happy but I remember it being discussed back when. Had forgotten.

An excellent point of reminder. I think those of us who have used the AAA & Senior discount fares are just getting used to reverting back to regular adult fares when using the new point system. Good or bad, it is the new rule so we must only seek some consistency in the new program and try to make it work. Or not ride anymore as some have suggested. I like to ride trains so we will make it work the best we can.

 

[Anderson]

I mean...I've gotten bona fide utility out of Amtrak on the Meteor to/from Florida and both the Meteor and Star to/from Washington and New York. As to going to/from NARP meetings (well, aside from those on the East Coast)...I'll make a point of it to a point, but the "fly to a location on Virgin and then train in" option seems like a winner there.

Honestly, backing out from this whole Charlie Foxtrot a few steps what I'm going to do is cut my mentally estimated value of AGR points by about 50% (so valuing them at about 1.4c/pt) on the presumption of further damage inbound such as spreading penalty prices and other increasing restrictions. Basically, on the heels of this, presuming a worst-case scenario seems wise [1]. Considering the 4c/pt I used to value them at this is pretty catastrophic; it still values them more than redeeming for gift cards, though the specter of using them for Hilton (!) does exist and it's plausible I might pursue that down the line.

Something to note, too, is that while the various point values for AGR have always been "high", that's largely because "internal" earning (e.g. for tickets) "only" generates 2-3 points per dollar at the base level depending on the fare chosen (4-5 points per dollar at Select Executive, since I don't think SE doubles the TQP earning bonus). With the other revenue-based award programs, the value of points is generally lower (e.g. Virgin America comes to about 2-2.2c/point and Southwest at 0.9-1.1c/point) but the volume of points earned is far higher (5-10 per dollar spent at Virgin America and 6-24 per dollar spent a Southwest, depending on status and fares selected). Yes, the credit card helps make up some of the difference (you get an additional three points per dollar spent with the Virgin card and two with the Southwest card versus 2-3 with the Amtrak card, so the relative impact is larger) but the point volume is still substantially lower (4-8 points/dollar with the credit cards on Amtrak versus 8-13 on Virgin and 8-26 points/dollar on Southwest).

Also, random note but the Points Estimator has vanished from the AGR site. Not that it was too useful on the redemption side, but worth noting all the same.

[1] As someone else on FT put it, the "surprise" has basically wrecked a lot of credibility on the part of the program's statements.

 

[benale]

I've been an AGR member since 2005. Those 100 point minimums really helped me take many trips over the years without breaking the bank. Sadly,after one more trip in April using points on the old system(20,000 two zone roomette) that will probably be it for a long time. By the way,two people will be using that award. If I were to book it under AGR 2.0 it would cost 65,000 points. Yes, there are upsides to the new system. Many coach trips and sleepers for one person will be cheaper. Good example would be Cleveland-Chicago, formerly straddling two zones. 8,000 points coach,now considerably less.

On balance, if you wanted to take a cross country trip the longest way possible with two people sharing a roomette it costs a lot more now than it did then. Last June we used 40,000 points for two two zone awards. If we booked that same trip now for the same dates this year it would be double.

I am currently select until 2/17. That will be the end of that status. Without the 100 point minimum, there is no way I can afford these trips anymore.

 

[Carolina Special]

This morning I booked a CVS-BEN trip under 2.0 for 11/19, just prior to Thanksgiving. There is a relative moving out to Arizona this summer and the family plan is to meet there to celebrate Turkey Day there this year. So I've been building up points in anticipation of that. I expected to have to buy some points for the return leg, but I was ready to do that.

I picked the cheaper NER/CL/TE route. Coach/Roomette/Roomette. Price was $794 cash, but I booked online for 27,393 points. Would have been 35,000 under 1.0, I believe. That's the good part.

The return trip would have started on 11/26 from Benson, the Saturday after Thanksgiving. It is currently listed as $794 cash as well, but is not bookable online. "Call for Price", it said. I decided not to bother and to clear out my Delta Skymiles account with a flight from Tucson on that day.

Going back on implementing the 2.0 plan announced back in August is just poor business policy. If you are going to say "No Blackouts", you should mean it.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The Best Surprise is No Surprise as Holiday Inn used to advertise!

Of course, Marketing and Political Speak don't really mean what they say, we used to call them Lies.

 

[PaulM]

I like to ride trains so we will make it work the best we can.

Precisely! I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

 

[jis]

I like to ride trains so we will make it work the best we can.

Precisely! I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

And I may be the real odd one who just likes to ride trains for the sake of riding trains. I neither find driving onerous nor airlines masochistic. In fact I enjoy both immensely. Yes, each has its challenges, and for each one learns to work around the challenges. but i'll be darned if some bureaucratic **** is going to stop me from enjoying what I enjoy.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I like to ride trains so we will make it work the best we can.

Precisely! I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

And I may be the real odd one who just likes to ride trains for the sake of riding trains. I neither find driving onerous nor airlines masochistic. In fact I enjoy both immensely. Yes, each has its challenges, and for each one learns to work around the challenges. but i'll be darned if some bureaucratic **** is going to stop me from enjoying what I enjoy.

Same here

 

[JayPea]

I like to ride trains so we will make it work the best we can.

Precisely! I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

And I may be the real odd one who just likes to ride trains for the sake of riding trains. I neither find driving onerous nor airlines masochistic. In fact I enjoy both immensely. Yes, each has its challenges, and for each one learns to work around the challenges. but i'll be darned if some bureaucratic **** is going to stop me from enjoying what I enjoy.

Same here

+2. I've never believed in throwing out the baby with the bath water. One of my most enjoyable and memorable trips I've taken was last year's road trip to and from Mt. Rushmore.

 

[Ryan]

+3.

Jishnu for President.

 

[willem]

I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

Thank you for putting in words the idea that has been in my mind.

And I may be the real odd one who just likes to ride trains for the sake of riding trains. I neither find driving onerous nor airlines masochistic. In fact I enjoy both immensely. Yes, each has its challenges, and for each one learns to work around the challenges. but i'll be darned if some bureaucratic **** is going to stop me from enjoying what I enjoy.

I agree with the "work around the challenges" and the sentiment that I will do what I enjoy, but the bureaucrat can reorganize the priorities by changing the relative enjoyment.

 

[Anderson]

I subscribe to the rule just say no to sleaze. But that doesn't work if you are dealing with a monopoly. A sleazy AGR program doesn't make driving less onerous or airlines less masochistic

Thank you for putting in words the idea that has been in my mind.

And I may be the real odd one who just likes to ride trains for the sake of riding trains. I neither find driving onerous nor airlines masochistic. In fact I enjoy both immensely. Yes, each has its challenges, and for each one learns to work around the challenges. but i'll be darned if some bureaucratic **** is going to stop me from enjoying what I enjoy.

I agree with the "work around the challenges" and the sentiment that I will do what I enjoy, but the bureaucrat can reorganize the priorities by changing the relative enjoyment.

Not to mention that while I like a good game of strategy as much as the next guy, when said game involves potentially thousands of dollars in effective stored value then *ahem* problems arise and the joy of "working around" those issues shrinks.

More to the point, though, is the fact that there's the question of which game(s) to play. In the face of this nonsense (or, more properly, advance notice of it), my likely course of action would have been to haul somewhere between 100-150k of my AGR points out and kick them over to Chase (where I could use them for a number of non-Amtrak options). Also, "work[ing] around the challenges" generally implies having a system that is at least reasonably straightforward; as far as I'm concerned, AGR has become Calvinball.

That being said...flying is workable if you can find a good airline with a solid First/Business product on a large portion of their system (Virgin America, I'm looking at you) but some airlines are...not so great, to put it mildly (Delta, I'm looking at you). Driving...I honestly don't like driving to the train station, let alone a long roadtrip. I do drive, yes, but not because I want to. It is often a cost-effective and convenient way to get someplace, but it is almost never my first choice to be the one behind the wheel.