Brightline Orlando extension

[blueman271]

If memory serves me correctly, there is a road tunnel for U.S. 1 and Las Olas close by. Of course, the tunnel is the most expensive option. The original bridge was double tracked at one point, so that would be the least expensive. A 3% to 4% grade even for Brightline is not ideal, I think. Thank you for bringing me up to date on this.

There is a tunnel for US-1 under the New River.

 

[daybeers]

and it is generally 110mph (being certified progressively) between West Palm Beach and Cocoa with the exception of several PSRs at bridges and curves.

It will be interesting to see how well they did on superelevation and what the speed restrictions are. I imagine average speed West Palm Beach-Orlando will be into the 90s.

 

[jis]

It will be interesting to see how well they did on superelevation and what the speed restrictions are. I imagine average speed West Palm Beach-Orlando will be into the 90s.

On the line carrying double stack freight they won't be as aggressive with super-elevation as they are on the passenger only Cocoa - Orlando segment.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

On the line carrying double stack freight they won't be as aggressive with super-elevation as they are on the passenger only Cocoa - Orlando segment.

How much super-elevation would there be - I've gotten the impression that the overall route is fairly straight - is that not correct?

 

[jis]

How much super-elevation would there be - I've gotten the impression that the overall route is fairly straight - is that not correct?

Oh no, lots of curves here and there, usually not too severe barring a few. Just open up on Google Map and see for yourself.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Oh no, lots of curves here and there, usually not too severe barring a few. Just open up on Google Map and see for yourself.

Good suggestion - very interesting. Much "curvier" than I'd realized - I just assumed it was fairly straight like a lot of roads in FL. Not mountain railway curvy, but still.

 

[jis]

Good suggestion - very interesting. Much "curvier" than I'd realized - I just assumed it was fairly straight like a lot of roads in FL. Not mountain railway curvy, but still.

It is similar to US Rt. 1 which parallel each other quite a ways.

 

[west point]

"IF" passenger demand is so large that 1 TPH is not enough Brightline can combine 2 trainsets to carry the extra loads. Once all the 2nd main track is complet from Palm 'beach to Cocoa then it might be able to go to 2 TPH ?? Note I do not see that much demand that quickly. However my many acuqaintenances in the TPA - COCOA region disagree with me. Having to drive I-75, Turnpike, or I-95 especially to MIA airport has apparently burned a lot of them out.

The lack of a Cocoa station has a couple persons I know very upset.

 

[GDRRiley]

"IF" passenger demand is so large that 1 TPH is not enough Brightline can combine 2 trainsets to carry the extra loads. Once all the 2nd main track is complet from Palm 'beach to Cocoa then it might be able to go to 2 TPH ?? Note I do not see that much demand that quickly. However my many acuqaintenances in the TPA - COCOA region disagree with me. Having to drive I-75, Turnpike, or I-95 especially to MIA airport has apparently burned a lot of them out.

The lack of a Cocoa station has a couple persons I know very upset.

they do not have enough equipment to run coupled sets, maybe on weekends they could get 1 extra sets free, really though it that becomes a regally need more they should just order some more coaches, they are fairly cheap

 

[cirdan]

they do not have enough equipment to run coupled sets, maybe on weekends they could get 1 extra sets free, really though it that becomes a regally need more they should just order some more coaches, they are fairly cheap

I agree. Two locomotives on a four coach train is already an overkill. Four locomotives for eight coaches would be overly lavish. I expect they will progressively add coaches as ridership grows. The idea being that they could go to seven coaches, so I assume the locomotives have the power to handle that comfortably.

Not being able to add or remove coaches on the fly is a slight drawback of course. But I assume Brightline have thought this through and decided that the flexibility isn't worth it.

 

[user 1215]

As for Brightline, some of you called this. The construction looks to be finished by early 2023 as indicated in this article.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/cha...h-orlando-stretch/PSNJKHP47ZDG7KRX4VZTXYKO4Q/

This was Jr. High journalism at its best. I think technically construction will end this year, but yes, I think most here believe in revenue service starting in 1Q 2023. Also, they say BL connects with commuter service in Miami, but it's only the light rail system that's co-located. I consider commuter rail to be Tri Rail which I don't think will be using Miami Central for at least a couple years.

It is back to double track now south of Titusville, except for one short segment on a bridge in St. Lucie. (and a few segments yet to be completed) and it is generally 110mph (being certified progressively) between West Palm Beach and Cocoa with the exception of several PSRs at bridges and curves.

I don't think much of the new track is completed or open yet, but they're getting there!

If memory serves me correctly, there is a road tunnel for U.S. 1 and Las Olas close by. Of course, the tunnel is the most expensive option. The original bridge was double tracked at one point, so that would be the least expensive. A 3% to 4% grade even for Brightline is not ideal, I think. Thank you for bringing me up to date on this.

Even if you could get BL to accept a 3-4% grade, the freights still use the ROW, too.

 

[cirdan]

This was Jr. High journalism at its best. I think technically construction will end this year, but yes, I think most here believe in revenue service starting in 1Q 2023. Also, they say BL connects with commuter service in Miami, but it's only the light rail system that's co-located. I consider commuter rail to be Tri Rail which I don't think will be using Miami Central for at least a couple years.

Even then I think it's a stretch to say it connects. The commuter service would just share the same building. For it to connect there would have to be meaningful connections, as in people arriving on one type of train and leaving on the other. That raises the question of how many people would ride Brightline south into Miami only to catch a commuter train going back more or less the way they had come. There may be special cases of people doing that of course but i don't think it's a significant market.

People connecting to light rail will be much more significant and meaningful, and so I assume that it is this that the authors were implying.

 

[jis]

Even if you could get BL to accept a 3-4% grade, the freights still use the ROW, too.

The EIS does not include freight operation on the elevated RoW. They won't. The current single track at ground level would be retained with its moveable bridge for the few freights. Only frequently operating passenger trains with high power to weight ratio would use the elevated line if it is built that way. And BTW, Brightline is fine with 3-4% grade.

There is a precedent for this already on the TriRail Line crossing the South Fork of the same river a bit further upstream. The freight line is at ground level with a moveable bridge whereas the double passenger track is on a fixed bridge at the same level as the adjacent highway.

 

[GDRRiley]

I agree. Two locomotives on a four coach train is already an overkill. Four locomotives for eight coaches would be overly lavish. I expect they will progressively add coaches as ridership grows. The idea being that they could go to seven coaches, so I assume the locomotives have the power to handle that comfortably.

they can easily pull 7-8 coaches by themselves if your okay with mediocre acceleration

Not being able to add or remove coaches on the fly is a slight drawback of course. But I assume Brightline have thought this through and decided that the flexibility isn't worth it.

open gangways are worth it and they can add or remove a coach it ~30 mins if they really need to.

 

[jis]

they can easily pull 7-8 coaches by themselves if your okay with mediocre acceleration

open gangways are worth it and they can add or remove a coach it ~30 mins if they really need to.

They do not plan to create random subfleets with random number of coaches. They will have standard fixed consists. When they are upgrading their fleet by adding a car to each consist there will be a period with two different configurations of consists, but that would be it. Or so said their operations guy the other week when we visited their OIA facilities and got to closely inspect one of their 2nd generation consists.

 

[Arctifox]

I expect they will progressively add coaches as ridership grows. The idea being that they could go to seven coaches, so I assume the locomotives have the power to handle that comfortably.

I thought that that was the long-term goal anyway and the reason why Brightline decided to go for two locomotives? Not sure where I heard that but it was several years ago around the time they started their service between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

This was Jr. High journalism at its best. I think technically construction will end this year, but yes, I think most here believe in revenue service starting in 1Q 2023. Also, they say BL connects with commuter service in Miami, but it's only the light rail system that's co-located. I consider commuter rail to be Tri Rail which I don't think will be using Miami Central for at least a couple years.

Journalism in general these days is not the best, especially in this state. With that said, Tri-Rail does intend to connect with BL regardless, so they're essentially right in that respect. As for BL's revenue service date, I also could see it happening in Q1 2023 if testing goes smoothly.

 

[jpakala]

In Stuart, FL area (visiting from MO). Heard bridge when Brightline starts (running to MCO) to be closed 45 minutes & open 15, so boaters are objecting to this. Anybody know more (seems solvable)?

 

[west point]

Maybe someone involved with these decisions might not know the rules of the road (waterway )?

 

[joelkfla]

Maybe someone involved with these decisions might not know the rules of the road (waterway )?

I think that's unlikely. If I'm not mistaken, changes to bridge opening schedules or procedures must be coordinated with the Coast Guard.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts discussing general issues of terminology and definitions like High Speed Rail, Commuter Rail, Heavy Rail, Light Rail etc. have been consolidated and moved to a new thread at

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...ology-and-speed-definitions-discussion.83624/
Please post such discussion to this new thread and keep the Brightline thread to discuss Brightline Orlando extension construction and service inauguration issues.

Thank you for you understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[joelkfla]

Orange County sales tax surcharge for transportation has been defeated at the polls. I don't know how this affects the Sunshine Corridor and Brightline extension to I-Drive & the Disney area.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

It is back to double track now south of Titusville, except for one short segment on a bridge in St. Lucie. (and a few segments yet to be completed) and it is generally 110mph (being certified progressively) between West Palm Beach and Cocoa with the exception of several PSRs at bridges and curves.

Sorry, what is PSR?

 

[jis]

Sorry, what is PSR?

Permanent Speed Restriction.

 

[Anderson]

Orange County sales tax surcharge for transportation has been defeated at the polls. I don't know how this affects the Sunshine Corridor and Brightline extension to I-Drive & the Disney area.

I don't know if anything was tied to anything there, but this is the first I heard of that referendum, too.

[I feel like they should consider coming back in two years on this one if inflation cools - this was not a good year for pushing anything folks would be likely to see show up at the supermarket.]