Brightline Trains Florida discussion 2024

[MARC Rider]

Firetruck and Brightline train collide in Delray Beach 12/28/24

https://www.wptv.com/news/region-s-...stigating-train-incident-involving-fire-truck

Well, well, well, where have we seen this before?

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/fire-truck-drives-around-crossing-gates-in-tamaqua-pa.83628/

Fortunately, in that case, there was no collision, which is a good thing as crashing into a steam locomotive in operation is not a good idea.

 

[bearcruzer]

dryly
Remember, at a crossing, one train may hide another...

Expect a train on any track at any time in either direction. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

[rookzie]

Well at least so far, they fared better than the firemen in the 1989, fire truck collision with Amtrak’s Crescent in Catlett, Virginia, resulting in injuries and deaths of two firefighters, and serious injuries of three others in that truck (one of which is believed to have succumbed to injuries). The two locomotives and 11 of 16 cars derailed, indeed a very expensive outcome, let alone with litigation.

It had been reported that the fire crew had taken a wrong turn from incomplete or sketchy directions, and had returned to the previously approached crossing, and had focused more on locating the target site with time already lost, while failing to be vigilant for the approaching train.

 

[tgstubbs1]

Well, well, well, where have we seen this before?

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/fire-truck-drives-around-crossing-gates-in-tamaqua-pa.83628/

Fortunately, in that case, there was no collision, which is a good thing as crashing into a steam locomotive in operation is not a good idea.

It amazes me that people who make a living responding to emergencies have this behaviour.

 

[Cal]

It amazes me that people who make a living responding to emergencies have this behaviour.

Genuinely, how can we trust them to make a good judgement call in a fire if they won't even look for a train coming when there is a system telling you a train is nearby?

 

[acelafan]

This is a sad and frustrating story on many levels. It seems the damaged loco will be out of service for awhile. Does Brightline have spare equipment to keep the same service levels?

It's crazy that there are so many RR crossing accidents.

 

[joelkfla]

This is a sad and frustrating story on many levels. It seems the damaged loco will be out of service for awhile. Does Brightline have spare equipment to keep the same service levels?

It's crazy that there are so many RR crossing accidents.

Yes, there is at least one spare locomotive at the Orlando shop. It was mentioned in Roaming Railfan's video showing arrival and commissioning of a new trainset. There's also at least one spare trainset, based on observing trains passing the Cocoa railcam.

 

[west point]

What speed was the Brightline operating at and what was its collision speed? The damage to the loco seemed to suggest not more than 30 MPH?? That seems too slow IMO. Bright lines was really lucky. Collisions at other incidents have locos and many cars derailed. How was the engineer spared? No major injuries as far as we know?

Not knowing the law in FL can there be sovereign immunity invoked in this incident immunization of the fire department?

 

[railiner]

It's crazy that there are so many RR crossing accidents.

It’s just a confirmation that frequent high speed train operations should be built in a fully grade separated right of way.
Unfortunately for Brightline, that was not possible due to the cost that would have required. This will happen again and again, unless some foolproof means of complete protection can be found and applied at every grade crossing…

 

[Qapla]

Removing grade level crossings is a good idea. Since it is the people on the roads and sidewalks that cause the problems and bypass the safety measures in place while the trains are doing nothing wrong - instead of telling the railroad to raise all their tracks, make the roads and sidewalks go over the tracks. That would eliminate the grade crossing and put the expense on the drivers and pedestrians who don't follow the laws instead of making the law-abiding railroads pay for other's thoughtlessness and negligence.

Like they did here in Jacksonville where University Ave crossed Phillips Highway. It took an incident with an ambulance to bring about this change but, they changed the road, not the tracks to never have to have an ambulance have to wait at the RR crossing again.

 

[jis]

It’s just a confirmation that frequent high speed train operations should be built in a fully grade separated right of way.
Unfortunately for Brightline, that was not possible due to the cost that would have required. This will happen again and again, unless some foolproof means of complete protection can be found and applied at every grade crossing…

It is a 79mph railroad where the event took place. Not high speed by any obtuse definition of the term.

 

[Qapla]

How was the engineer spared?

From what I saw on a video about this accident, those engines are designed and built with a "safety cab" design, much like how newer cars are now built, to help protect the cockpit from severe damage if a collision like this.

 

[tgstubbs1]

In the video it looks like the fire truck was only going a couple of miles per hour, I guess they had no clue. If it was going faster the truck might have cleared the tracks.

 

[PVD]

What speed was the Brightline operating at and what was its collision speed? The damage to the loco seemed to suggest not more than 30 MPH?? That seems too slow IMO. Bright lines was really lucky. Collisions at other incidents have locos and many cars derailed. How was the engineer spared? No major injuries as far as we know?

Not knowing the law in FL can there be sovereign immunity invoked in this incident immunization of the fire department?

I don't think so, I believe Florida waives for the purposes of Tort claims. But we need a Florida knowledgeable lawyer (or at least someone very familiar with Florida law to affirm)

 

[alanh]

It amazes me that people who make a living responding to emergencies have this behaviour.

You'd be surprised. Individual seats with seatbelts for each firefighter weren't required until the 1980s. Firefighters still have more fatalities from traffic accidents than fires.

It’s just a confirmation that frequent high speed train operations should be built in a fully grade separated right of way.
Unfortunately for Brightline, that was not possible due to the cost that would have required. This will happen again and again, unless some foolproof means of complete protection can be found and applied at every grade crossing…

The FEC line goes through densely developed areas. Yes, grade separations would take a lot of really expensive real estate. The most practical option would be elevating the line, but that's still extremely expensive and people hate elevated railways.

From looking on Google street view, most of the crossings do not have center medians to discourage switching to the other side. However the fire engine probably would have gone around it anyway.

A few crossings have quad gates but this one did not. That might be a start, though you still have issues with cars stopping on the tracks and pedestrians.

I don't think so, I believe Florida waives for the purposes of Tort claims. But we need a Florida knowledgeable lawyer (or at least someone very familiar with Florida law to affirm)

I am not a lawyer, but it appears that yes they can sue but the limit is $200K per claimant and $300K total. Going higher than that requires an act of the legislature.