Brightline Trains Florida discussion

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From what I see on my timeline (per Greg Angel) it looks like that will be the case that it will be full hourly service.

Weekdays:
(Southbound): From Orlando starting at 5am (first train arrives at 8:30am). Last train south is 8:50pm
(Northbound): From Miami starting at 6:50am (first train arrives at 10:15am). Last train north is 9:45pm


Weekends:
Southbound: First train leaves Orlando at 5:45am, last train leaves at 8:50pm
Northbound: First train leaves Miami at 5:45 am, last train leaves at 9:45pm
That's still a very early stop in the evening. Adding at least some late evening services (doesn't need to be hourly) might help cater for the party crowd and could be achieved without additional equipment. Especially if you consider there are people who would like to have a drink or two but can't because they need to drive.
 
That's still a very early stop in the evening. Adding at least some late evening services (doesn't need to be hourly) might help cater for the party crowd and could be achieved without additional equipment. Especially if you consider there are people who would like to have a drink or two but can't because they need to drive.
Brightline has their "Buzzer Beater" service in Miami. It's not on the schedule however there is a train that leaves from Miami going north 30 minutes after Miami Heat home games. Maybe they could test a southbound train to Miami that leaves Orlando at 11:30pm. If the theme parks close at 10pm, it would give riders time to grab a bite to eat and get to the airport.
 
Brightline has their "Buzzer Beater" service in Miami. It's not on the schedule however there is a train that leaves from Miami going north 30 minutes after Miami Heat home games. Maybe they could test a southbound train to Miami that leaves Orlando at 11:30pm. If the theme parks close at 10pm, it would give riders time to grab a bite to eat and get to the airport.
I think that is a good idea. That would work as long as they are able to service the consist in time for handling the 8:30 departure from Miami, or they are able to cycle some other consist into service while keeping the last incoming at home for the day. Each consist could potentially require a few hours of care and feeding each night to stay in good order.
 
All that I have to go by is the information quoted from Brightline in this Railway Age article.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenge...national-airport-station/?RAchannel=passenger
"On weekdays, Brightline is planning hourly departures: southbound from 5:00 a.m. until 8:50 p.m., with the first train arriving at Miami at 8:30, and northbound from 6:50 a.m. until 9:45 p.m., with the first train arriving at Orlando Airport at 9:15 a.m. The weekend schedule would be the same, except the first train will leave Miami at 5:45 a.m. and arrive at Orlando Airport station at 10:15. "

Seems like a misprint...I think they mixed up the first weekday/weekend departure times. 0650->1015 is about "right", as is 0545->0915.
 
I think that is a good idea. That would work as long as they are able to service the consist in time for handling the 8:30 departure from Miami, or they are able to cycle some other consist into service while keeping the last incoming at home for the day. Each consist could potentially require a few hours of care and feeding each night to stay in good order.
Set #9 (the "Charter" set, as opposed to the "shop" set) could be used for this.

The biggest hangup would be arrival times at MIA of around 0300.
 
It might be possible: Run a "local" from MIA to WPB. Depart an Express to FLL(?) -WPB arrives 5 minutes after local - MCO. Express picks up the local's traffic to MCO? Reverse going to MIA. Probably not needed at beginning but maybe later?
 
Trying to find it this has been covered without success. Once Brightline starts service to Orlando, if you reside in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties and want to go to Orlando by train, are you really going to consider Amtrak over Brightline just because the former stops in downtown Orlando? Comments, please.
 
Trying to find it this has been covered without success. Once Brightline starts service to Orlando, if you reside in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties and want to go to Orlando by train, are you really going to consider Amtrak over Brightline just because the former stops in downtown Orlando? Comments, please.
For the same fare, unlikely. For half the fare, quite likely for a very significant group of people who are not floating on money. And if you are going to resort areas around Kissimmee, actually getting dropped off at Kissimmee may be a plus.

I am not sure stopping at Orlando Health/Amtrak instead of OIA/Brightline is as big a factor as some seem to think it might be. From both you have to take something to get to almost anywhere that is locally useful.
 
For the same fare, unlikely. For half the fare, quite likely for a very significant group of people who are not floating on money. And if you are going to resort areas around Kissimmee, actually getting dropped off at Kissimmee may be a plus.

I am not sure stopping at Orlando Health/Amtrak instead of OIA/Brightline is as big a factor as some seem to think it might be. From both you have to take something to get to almost anywhere that is locally useful.
How does the experience compare when traveling from each station to the theme parks in the area?

Is there any way to get to Busch Gardens in Tampa without a car?
 
Trying to find it this has been covered without success. Once Brightline starts service to Orlando, if you reside in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties and want to go to Orlando by train, are you really going to consider Amtrak over Brightline just because the former stops in downtown Orlando? Comments, please.
This particular city pair is probably going to take a hit, but (as @jis said) it's going to depend on the fares and so on. Brightline will generally be the more convenient option, but it is likely to (generally) be the more expensive option as well. However, at least for the moment Amtrak also implicitly interfaces with both SunRail and Tri-Rail (indeed, once the Tri-Rail downtown service starts you could get to MiamiCentral with a transfer), and I believe that parking at Tri-Rail stations tends to be cheaper as well. So there's still going to be a market on the Amtrak side of things.

With that being said, a situation where Brightline has an actual timetable and Amtrak can only really offer "travel suggestions" due to host issues is likely to be the bigger issue for Amtrak. After my first trip to Miami, a friend who joined me on that trip took me to the Orlando Amtrak station to catch my train. As I had an issue with checking a bag (I missed the cutoff by like five minutes and had to check it trainside) he observed in respect of the two operations, and I paraphrase, "Man, Amtrak doesn't have their act together."

Long-term, the more "balanced" market will be Tampa (where the runtimes will be about the same).
 
If they're Ubering, perhaps, but otherwise it's easier to get to the parks from the airport, with the shuttle services and the easy availability of rental cars.
Rental Cars are a definite plus at the airport. There are shuttle services that will pick up from Amtrak Orlando. I have seen people use it to the resorts, and I have used myself to the airport.
 
Rental Cars are a definite plus at the airport. There are shuttle services that will pick up from Amtrak Orlando. I have seen people use it to the resorts, and I have used myself to the airport.
But we were talking about Kissimmee. Either way, something could probably be arranged, but it still seems easier to hop on one of the 2 major shuttle providers at MCO.
 
But we were talking about Kissimmee. Either way, something could probably be arranged, but it still seems easier to hop on one of the 2 major shuttle providers at MCO.
If the Amtrak expansion happens, then you might get better shuttle support at KIS/ORL as well (particularly depending on train count).

Of course, this is all "for right now" - assuming that they're able to get to at least the two other Orlando stations (Convention Center/I-Drive by Disney) this calculus starts going towards Brightline at a hard gallop.

Edit: Man, when was the last time we could have had a conversation like this in the US with a straight face? Feels like the 1920s...or maybe the 1940s?
 
Beyond Brightline in Orlando, I am acatually rooting for the Sunrail East-West Line, which eventually could be extended East of Innovation Way all the way to Brevard County. I have started mentioning this to the Brevard TPO to at least bring that possibility into their consciousness. It meshes nicely into the long range plan that Brevard has for a commuter service between Micco and Mims (roughly the South and North end of the populated are within Brevard county. Potentially the south end could easily be extended to North Indian River County, but one never knows about the mindset of the "rural" folks of IRC.
 
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Trying to find it this has been covered without success. Once Brightline starts service to Orlando, if you reside in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties and want to go to Orlando by train, are you really going to consider Amtrak over Brightline just because the former stops in downtown Orlando? Comments, please.
Maybe. But I might just choose Amtrak, because their trains are more comfortable…
And may offer a traditional diner and or lounge car experience…
And, as others say, may be cheaper.

If I was going for “railfanning” travel, I would most likely go one way on each, for variety…🙂

Agree with @Anderson’s post above…fantastic to have a choice between “competing” intercity railroads!😎
 
Beyond Brightline in Orlando, I am acatually rooting for the Sunrail East-West Line, which eventually could be extended East of Industrial Way all the way to Brevard County. I have started mentioning this to the Brevard TPO to at least bring ithat possibility into their consciousness. It meshes nicely into the long range plan that Brevard has for a commuter service between Micco and Mims (roughly the South and North end of the populated are within Brevard county. Potentially the south end could easily be extended to North Indian River County, but one never knows about the mindset of the "rural" folks of IRC.
Where does that line go? (I recall reading about it at some point in the past but am blanking on the details.

The biggest question I'd have is whether, in the scheme of things, it wouldn't make more sense for them to mimic what South Florida is doing with Brightline and run a commuter service out to Cocoa (paying Brightline for the access rights)? I'd note that the CFX Board is made up of county reps and reps from the Governor's office, so if there were a political will to do this, those entities would probably be able to "make" CFX cooperate. I also don't know how hard it would be to add a fourth track to the station (on the east side), but if the SunRail line were made a run-through would it be feasible to run through services (presuming the equipment allowed similar operating speeds)?
 
From what I read, one-way fares between Miami and Orlando will start at $79 for SMART service, and $149 for PREMIUM service. SMART fare bundles for families of four will be available for less than $199 one way. Travelers can expect to travel from Orlando to Miami on a nonstop Brightline train in two hours and 59 minutes, and from Orlando to West Palm Beach in two hours.

It seems that taking Amtrak only costs $39 but it takes 5+ to 7+ hours, depending on which Silver and, currently, each train only runs once a day ... 8:10AM and 11:50AM north - 1:19PM and 10:47PM south

Maybe the cost difference will keep enough people riding Amtrak that Brightline will reduce their individual fares. Their "SMART family bundle" works out to only an extra $10 per person - but it is a $43 difference for a family of 4.
 
From what I read, one-way fares between Miami and Orlando will start at $79 for SMART service, and $149 for PREMIUM service. SMART fare bundles for families of four will be available for less than $199 one way. Travelers can expect to travel from Orlando to Miami on a nonstop Brightline train in two hours and 59 minutes, and from Orlando to West Palm Beach in two hours.

It seems that taking Amtrak only costs $39 but it takes 5+ to 7+ hours, depending on which Silver and, currently, each train only runs once a day ... 8:10AM and 11:50AM north - 1:19PM and 10:47PM south

Maybe the cost difference will keep enough people riding Amtrak that Brightline will reduce their individual fares. Their "SMART family bundle" works out to only an extra $10 per person - but it is a $43 difference for a family of 4.
Schedule is another factor. Brightline is going to be running hourly service. That's an absolute no-brainer decision for me. You have so much more flexibility, especially if your plans change, or there is a service disruption.
 
Where does that line go? (I recall reading about it at some point in the past but am blanking on the details.
Where does which line go?
The biggest question I'd have is whether, in the scheme of things, it wouldn't make more sense for them to mimic what South Florida is doing with Brightline and run a commuter service out to Cocoa (paying Brightline for the access rights)? I'd note that the CFX Board is made up of county reps and reps from the Governor's office, so if there were a political will to do this, those entities would probably be able to "make" CFX cooperate. I also don't know how hard it would be to add a fourth track to the station (on the east side), but if the SunRail line were made a run-through would it be feasible to run through services (presuming the equipment allowed similar operating speeds)?
Why would anyone need a fourth track to run maybe 1-2tph more? Wherever they extend Sunrail service to, there will need to be a low level boarding platform tracks or two. All that is already part of the plan for the Sunshine Corridor through Orlando, and the potential extension of Sunrail service east of OIA. There will be no station between Industrial Way and Cocoa should service be extended that way since hardly anyone lives between those two places along SR528. Being able to run a Commuter Service at 125mph is really no big deal, specially 10+ years from now. Capable equipment as we know is already available in many forms.

The Brevard County North-South service would be along FECR route and a third track is planned for many segments along that corridor. Stations are planned to be pretty frequent The Southern terminus in Brevard County would be Micco according to the long range plans.
 
Where does which line go?

Why would anyone need a fourth track to run maybe 1-2tph more? Wherever they extend Sunrail service to, there will need to be a low level boarding platform tracks or two. All that is already part of the plan for the Sunshine Corridor through Orlando, and the potential extension of Sunrail service east of OIA. There will be no station between Industrial Way and Cocoa should service be extended that way since hardly anyone lives between those two places along SR528. Being able to run a Commuter Service at 125mph is really no big deal, specially 10+ years from now. Capable equipment as we know is already available in many forms.

The Brevard County North-South service would be along FECR route and a third track is planned for many segments along that corridor. Stations are planned to be pretty frequent The Southern terminus in Brevard County would be Micco according to the long range plans.
(1) Where is Industrial Way? I looked at a map and couldn't find it.

(2) Well, it's about a 40-mile run MCO-Cocoa, so 20-25 minutes. I presume that Brightline would want/need space for 2tph on their end (if just because schedules might not always be "neat"). If Sunrail is also running 2tph (so, 4tph total in each direction)...isn't 8 moves per hour the limit of the Hudson River tunnels in single track mode? So...you'd probably need either double tracking or two long sidings to allow passing at speed?
 
(1) Where is Industrial Way? I looked at a map and couldn't find it.
My mistake. Look for Innovation Way and International Corporate Park Blvd. The Eastern end of the East - West Corridor is supposed to be in that area.
(2) Well, it's about a 40-mile run MCO-Cocoa, so 20-25 minutes. I presume that Brightline would want/need space for 2tph on their end (if just because schedules might not always be "neat"). If Sunrail is also running 2tph (so, 4tph total in each direction)...isn't 8 moves per hour the limit of the Hudson River tunnels in single track mode? So...you'd probably need either double tracking or two long sidings to allow passing at speed?
They will need two main line tracks, but not four. There will be station loop(s) at the East end station any any en route station, possibly between Narcoussee Rd and SR417, somewhere there. It is possible that there will just be single loop between the two main tracks. That will be more than sufficient to handle 8-12 or so tph in each direction with 4 of them being local trains (SunRail) without doing any high density signaling gymnastics as done on the NEC to ram through 26 tph in each direction. That also is at lower speed of 90mph IIRC on the High Line between Newark (well actually CP Swift) and New York.
 
My mistake. Look for Innovation Way and International Corporate Park Blvd. The Eastern end of the East - West Corridor is supposed to be in that area.

They will need two main line tracks, but not four. There will be station loop(s) at the East end station any any en route station, possibly between Narcoussee Rd and SR417, somewhere there. It is possible that there will just be single loop between the two main tracks. That will be more than sufficient to handle 8-12 or so tph in each direction with 4 of them being local trains (SunRail) without doing any high density signaling gymnastics as done on the NEC to ram through 26 tph in each direction. That also is at lower speed of 90mph IIRC on the High Line between Newark (well actually CP Swift) and New York.
Ah...so, my only thought on "needing four tracks" was physically at the station at Orlando. And that was presuming some desire to either physically separate Brightline from Sunrail or to keep services mostly on a given track (since Miami probably mainly needs five tracks because it's a stub-end).

[I presume there would be some additional service MCO to International Drive, based on the HSR reports from the 2000s.]

Edit: I see it now. I initially thought this was a reference to something up by Apopka or Winter Park (I think I was thinking of the proposed Sanford airport line).
 
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Ah...so, my only thought on "needing four tracks" was physically at the station at Orlando. And that was presuming some desire to either physically separate Brightline from Sunrail or to keep services mostly on a given track (since Miami probably mainly needs five tracks because it's a stub-end).

[I presume there would be some additional service MCO to International Drive, based on the HSR reports from the 2000s.]
The OIA station for SunRail will be a single low level platform two track separate new setup east of the Brightline Station. There is space set aside for that.
 
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