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"Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD!"

FEC should not even give these guys the time of day. They're certainly not getting any train service, and I'll wager this group will likely be whining about that very lack of service "killing our town" in a few years time as AAF becomes ever more popular.
 
"Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD!"

FEC should not even give these guys the time of day. They're certainly not getting any train service, and I'll wager this group will likely be whining about that very lack of service "killing our town" in a few years time as AAF becomes ever more popular.
I agree. The question is how quickly their tune would change if FEC were giving them stops for at least some trains...which I do expect down the road, assuming they go beyond once-hourly service.
 
These people are part of the reason why we don't have decent transportation in Florida among various reasons. If Robert Moses was still around, he would of done this project regardless of the opposition. Sure he didn't benefit public transportation in New York, but he still got things done anyway.
That's putting it mildly. These kind of people are the worst, denying "nice things" for the rest of us because of their selfishness.
 
3rd to last paragraph:

Cumber says that if David Beckham builds his soccer stadium at PortMiami, AAF will provide train service to fans on game days across its freight rail bridge to the port.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/03/04/3973850/ready-to-hop-on-all-aboard-florida.html
I would make the trip to see my Orlando City Soccer whip up on Becks team...

This brings up something I have thought about many times. The rail line to the port has been inactive but apparently will be reopening. Miami is the busiest cruise ship port in the world. Before Port Canaveral (who is weighing options for a rail connection) had so many choices, I used to cruise out of Miami a lot. Its a pretty long drive but worse is that it is about $15 a day to park your car. Wouldn't the heavy daily cruise demand be much more worth a passenger connection to Dodge Island than the occasional soccer match? And with the new MIC terminal there could be a MIA-port train.These are the things that keep me up at night.
 
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OH NOES!!! 32 trains will block a crossing for 30 seconds!!!

IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!
 
Except for one comment by one lady in the article, I don't think it is about how long crossings will be blocked by trains at all. It is about outright elimination of many grade crossings with no reasonable replacement via overpasses, underpasses etc., that has got people worked up, which seems to be a perfectly reasonable thing to complain about IMHO, unless of course one is a pure rail bigot.

At least in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties they get service in exchange for that pain. In Brevard, Indian River, Martin and St. Lucie Counties they just get the extra cost and hassle with no service. So there is a political blowback which is slowly brewing. I am not sure how it will play out. Ironically, the primary reason for no service in those four counties is the Beach Line Toll Authority which thinks their Toll revenues will be adversely affected if service were instituted between those Counties and Orlando, and probably rightly so. But it is kind of odd that a public agency should be allowed to work against the interest of the public getting a better service that they would find more desirable.
 
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Not so strange jis when you consider that the Republicans in Congress vote against everything that is beneficial to the vast majority of the people! Its also common in Government as agencies and departments fight turf wars and compete for more funding and expansion of their turf!
 
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AAF to cost $2.5 billion. The $1.5 billion number is for track infrastructure only. The other $1billion is for train sets, stations, and startup costs. The RRIF loan is only for the track improvements as per the loan program guidelines. Expected start date is now mid 2016. Not unexpected as the schedule was aggressive considering the EIS would be completed as late as first of 2015. This is a more realistic date and budget than previously heard. Also, their website will be relaunched this week. Here is part of the WPB article from this evening:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/business/all-aboard-florida-president-defends-safety-of-pas/nfbp6/

The project has been talked about for two years as a $1.5 billion endeavor. But Reininger clarified Wednesday that covers improvements to the tracks, new tracks between Cocoa and Orlando, the signaling systems and other infrastructure for the rail line. Cost of the trains, the stations, start-up and operational costs boost that to nearly $2.5 billion, he said.

Reininger said bids for the first construction projects should be released in the coming weeks. These will be small preparatory projects, and none is likely in Palm Beach County, he said.
 
Allow me to strike a discordant note into this party.....

On this one I am not going to unequivocally support NARP's position. Seriously AAF and FEC need to consider adding stops between West Palm Beach and Cocoa, and make a commitment to that effect, including perhaps at Cocoa itself. Failing that I am all for a little resistance to this project in its current form.

The deal that they struck with Beach Line Toll Authority was a bad one. They should own upto it and renegotiate that.

So sorry. No help of the sort requested, from me at this moment. I will be educating people about the whole issue.

So yes, I am sending a letter to Rick Scott, who effective July 1 will be my Governor (sadly), and that letter is going to be quite different from the one that NARP proposes. And trust me I am an ardent rail advocate. Rail service for as many as possible, not just a select few that are convenient for a few. Once I get there I will be spending some time campaigning for the more inclusive approach.

This is very similar to the problem that we have with Amtrak's Next Gen HSR project in NJ. NJ basically becomes a flyover country as currently proposed for the Super Express service, and that would not be acceptable either.
 
So yes, I am sending a letter to Rick Scott, who effective July 1 will be my Governor (sadly)
Eh, you're trading Christie for Scott, that isn't too big a step down. :p

I was also going to write my own - I'm interesting in reading what you end up sending if you don't mind sharing...
Sure. I will do this after I get back from Israel, so maybe in early May or so. The basic points I will include, I have already presented in some form or another in this thread.

Yeah, well, who the Governor is has not been a major consideration in all this. They come and go every so often, and hopefully the damage done by each can be kept relatively contained.
 
Did All Aboard Florida update their website recently? I had not checked in some time, but they now have a snazzy looking website.

The front page of the website has an info item on taking a maximum of 60 seconds for a passenger train to clear an intersection, so they obviously working to push back against the controversy on the grade crossings.

There is a link to a April 18 Sunshine State Q&A phone interview with the President and Chief Marketing Office of AAF: Q&A: All Aboard Florida Responds to Sunshine State News.
 
Congrats jis, you'll love the winters (as you know) and there's actually an honest lawyer and a competent bean counter that we all know and like for neighbors and fellow train lovers!
 
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Did All Aboard Florida update their website recently? I had not checked in some time, but they now have a snazzy looking website.

The front page of the website has an info item on taking a maximum of 60 seconds for a passenger train to clear an intersection, so they obviously working to push back against the controversy on the grade crossings.

There is a link to a April 18 Sunshine State Q&A phone interview with the President and Chief Marketing Office of AAF: Q&A: All Aboard Florida Responds to Sunshine State News.
They did, they sent an email a few days ago about it.
 
Allow me to strike a discordant note into this party.....

On this one I am not going to unequivocally support NARP's position. Seriously AAF and FEC need to consider adding stops between West Palm Beach and Cocoa, and make a commitment to that effect, including perhaps at Cocoa itself. Failing that I am all for a little resistance to this project in its current form.

The deal that they struck with Beach Line Toll Authority was a bad one. They should own upto it and renegotiate that.

So sorry. No help of the sort requested, from me at this moment. I will be educating people about the whole issue.

So yes, I am sending a letter to Rick Scott, who effective July 1 will be my Governor (sadly), and that letter is going to be quite different from the one that NARP proposes. And trust me I am an ardent rail advocate. Rail service for as many as possible, not just a select few that are convenient for a few. Once I get there I will be spending some time campaigning for the more inclusive approach.

This is very similar to the problem that we have with Amtrak's Next Gen HSR project in NJ. NJ basically becomes a flyover country as currently proposed for the Super Express service, and that would not be acceptable either.
*sighs*

And I wind up back in the middle of the two sides. On the one hand, I believe that AAF/FEC should look to add further stops down the line. It's fair enough to say they got a dubious deal from the expressway people, and I'll agree that more stops would be a good thing down the line.

On the other hand, I see no reason that this project shouldn't be a success as envisioned and see no reason not to support it. They got stuck dealing with a third party that stuffed some obnoxious strings into the deal, but the deal was still a decent one and how it played out might well have saved a lengthy fight. The small number of stops also likely simplified various parts of the planning process and provided a "path of least resistance" to follow.

With that said, as I see things this shouldn't be treated quite the same as an Amtrak proposal because it is a largely private-sector operation. If it was FDOT or Amtrak or another public sector agency spearheading this, I'd be all for adding stops to most trains. I'd say the same if there was a government grant paying for most of it (as would be the case with the Super-Express service on the NEC). Neither item is the case, and the extent of the government subsidy is reduced interest on a loan.

Likewise, if those towns want a stop (or stops) and FEC isn't hot on it, as long as FEC is paying for the show it should be up to those towns to negotiate stops on some trains (albeit presumably with state help). If the state were stepping in to pay for those stops and pick up the tab for any incurred losses due to the trains taking longer (and/or paying for the equipment and any track improvements needed to accommodate even more passenger trains on the route), I'd be fine demanding a commitment in return. In the same vein, if the state gets stuck subsidizing the operation and/or FEC defaults on the loan, forcing additional stops onto the service would be fine.

Ultimately, FEC has taken the biggest leap in this direction that any private non-shortline has taken since the Metroliners, and I'm frankly of the opinion that forcing them to add stops that FEC doesn't want to (at least at the outset) would be akin to forcing the Pennsy to run their Metroliners as locals. As long as FEC is paying the loan, in my mind it is their experiment to run. Let them call the shots.
 
If the local cities want stops, they need to provide some funds to support what they want. All Aboard Florida, the entity that will operate the trains over the Florida East Coast Railroad and the Development Company have done exhaustive studies that have shown where the travel demand is and where fares will justify the cost without subsidies. Anything else besides that original plan should and would require subsidies at the state and local level. Keep in mind that a strong lobby in Florida killed a high speed rail plan that had been approved by Florida voters. It was just after I moved to Jacksonville. I couldn't believe the myths and misinformation that even local representatives were telling people to get them to sign petitions against the already approved plan in front of grocery stores and everywhere you went. I was amazed that local people were so ignorant about passenger trains in general that they believe what they heard and spread it further. Those same instigators are likely trying to kill this project even though no taxpayer funds are involved.
 
Well, and as far as this particular case goes, one saving grace is that FECI is a major political donor...so that should provide some cover. I will say that it is interesting watching as one side of the spectrum attacks the bullet train while folks on the other promoted it...and then things reverse with this project. If there is a consensus in Florida, it seems to be either "We want a train...we're just not sure which one" or "We want a train...just not the one being promoted right now."
 
Well, and as far as this particular case goes, one saving grace is that FECI is a major political donor...so that should provide some cover. I will say that it is interesting watching as one side of the spectrum attacks the bullet train while folks on the other promoted it...and then things reverse with this project. If there is a consensus in Florida, it seems to be either "We want a train...we're just not sure which one" or "We want a train...just not the one being promoted right now."
Actually Anderson, there is alot of support for All Aboard Florida in Florida. Besides Orlando and South Florida, Tampa and Jacksonville are definitely supportive of AAF. The noise you are hearing now is from the Treasure Coast communities. Besides being ticked off that they are not getting a stop with AAF, they have been anti-south Florida as far as development and diversity. In my 17 years living in Florida, people in Port St Lucie to Vero Beach have always talked in somewhat racist terms about people from Miami and Broward, WPB moving northward. That is the real reason why these people don't want AAF. To them AAF represents being assimilated into the larger south Florida metropolis.
Florida is a diverse state. Central and south Florida are "progressive" whereas parts of SW Florida and north Florida and the panhandle are very much like the rest of the south. That is why it appears that FL is conflicted when it comes to so many things (including presidential elections! Hahah)
 
Florida is an uninhabitable sandspit. God knows why people want to inhabit an uninhabitable sand spit. I swear Henry M Flagler was the greatest con-man real estate has ever known.
 
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