Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[jis]

Would Amtrak be able to call at that station? Seems the current one is akin to Staples Mill Rd in Richmond [too far out of center-city].

They would be able to do so as all Seaboard trains did. You just have to back out of it a little ways, or back into it, since both the line towards New York and Orlando head out towards the north from that station.

As I said before, the City of Jacksonville does want to reincarnate that station by what is now the Convention Center, and located close to downtown.

 

[Anderson]

The other thing is that the Brightline model is based on the following factors:
(1) Density of service. Service is expected to start at hourly trains all day, not unlike the Acela or Regional services; it is quite believable that trains could end up running a bit more than hourly at peak times.

(2) Density of population and the size of the existing markets. Yes, there's a gap between WPB and MCO, but South Florida and Orlando are both major population centers at about the right distance to make this work, and there's a not-insignificant amount of traffic already between these markets...as well as within South Florida (where the traffic just sucks).

(3) High average speed and reasonable runtime. End-to-end runtime should be around 3:00 (which is about as long as you want a train trip to be so it can compete with other modes) with an average speed of about 80 MPH. Only the Acela (and only south of NYP) reaches this average speed. Within South Florida, the runtimes are quite short (I think it's about 1:00 or 1:15 Miami-West Palm Beach, versus 2:00 or so on Tri-Rail).

(4) Ability to operate with limited expected interference. The business model inherently presumes that the passenger trains will be given high priority on the Miami-Cocoa segment (and have exclusive use of the Cocoa-Orlando segment), something Amtrak can rarely point to elsewhere.

As a general rule, Amtrak routes with a good host railroad and fast, frequent service tend to do pretty well (notwithstanding non-market pressures to cap fares). It's once-daily (or less) operations that have to support a dozen stations which have the most trouble.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

So this happened, even more good news for this project.

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/in-the-news/press-releases/2016/05/04/brightline-final-plans-approved-for-brevard-indian-river-and-all-the-treasure-coast

 

[user 1215]

Would Amtrak be able to call at that station? Seems the current one is akin to Staples Mill Rd in Richmond [too far out of center-city].

They would be able to do so as all Seaboard trains did. You just have to back out of it a little ways, or back into it, since both the line towards New York and Orlando head out towards the north from that station.
As I said before, the City of Jacksonville does want to reincarnate that station by what is now the Convention Center, and located close to downtown.

Or just leave Amtrak where it's at, let Briteline come into the Osborne station, and extend the stupid people mover 4 miles to connect to the existing Amtrak station (which they should have done when they built the thing).

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Or just leave Amtrak where it's at, let Briteline come into the Osborne station, and extend the stupid people mover 4 miles to connect to the existing Amtrak station (which they should have done when they built the thing).

What benefit is that? Is there any reason to extend the people mover to the Amtrak station OTHER than for Amtrak passengers?

If not... just run a dedicated bus from the Convention Center to the Amtrak Station around the Amtrak call times.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Or just leave Amtrak where it's at, let Briteline come into the Osborne station, and extend the stupid people mover 4 miles to connect to the existing Amtrak station (which they should have done when they built the thing).

What benefit is that? Is there any reason to extend the people mover to the Amtrak station OTHER than for Amtrak passengers?

If not... just run a dedicated bus from the Convention Center to the Amtrak Station around the Amtrak call times.

Jacksonville Transit Authority currently runs a bus from the Amtrak Station to downtown Jacksonville all day Sunday through Saturday. It wouldn't be very cost effective to extend the "Skyway" people mover to Amtrak. There is a need for better transportation to JIA, but no existing rail lines go close so very expensive to build.

 

[user 1215]

I'm just a fan of taking the train as far as you can. There really wouldn't be a benefit - other than to the people mover itself which is pretty useless as-is (though ridership is growing, so long as it's free).

 

[Caesar La Rock]

The Fort Lauderdale station is about to rise.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-brightline-update-20160513-story.html

 

[chrsjrcj]

The West Palm Beach station is well on its way. Here are some photos I took a few days ago:

http://imgur.com/hMSN4mw

http://imgur.com/YPr6yQr

http://imgur.com/4AN0hrf

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Well Tri-Rail will connect with Brightline at the Miami Central station.

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2016/05/17/tri-rail-connection-new-miamicentral-station-advances/

 

[City of Miami]

Well Tri-Rail will connect with Brightline at the Miami Central station.

This is different from the airport station where Tri-Rail goes now?

 

[jis]

Well Tri-Rail will connect with Brightline at the Miami Central station.

This is different from the airport station where Tri-Rail goes now?

Yes. This is the FEC All Aboard Florida station in downtown Miami. Not the station at the airport where TriRail goes now.

 

[City of Miami]

Yes. This is the FEC All Aboard Florida station in downtown Miami. Not the station at the airport where TriRail goes now.

OK, where in downtown Miami is it located.......as in cross-streets?

 

[jis]

Google is your friend

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/miami-central

 

[City of Miami]

Google is your friend

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/stations/miami-central

It looks like it is a couple of blocks north of the current govt center station for MetroRail and the mover. In March I was in this area several times and I did not notice any particular heavy construction; of course, I didn't know what to look for. It's all so close together why is it advantageous for Tri-Rail to move? Especially since they parallel each other pretty much the entire length of Tri-Rail. One walks further than that for many NYC subway connections.
It also looks like there is a RR line that comes down from the north to that area and then veers east to the Port area. Is this the trackage they will use.

 

[jis]

The track coming from the north is the FEC main line that will be used by AAF Brightline. Eventually there is a plan to run TriRail on it all the way to Jupiter for now. But at present TreRail will cross over from its current route to join the FEC along the FEC branch that heads west and intersects with TriRail near Hialeah Market.

Here is the future plan for the eastern corridor:

http://www.tri-railcoastallinkstudy.com/

Here is an article on the TriRail Miami Central connection

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article18291674.html

 

[City of Miami]

Thanks. This is why I ask questions - to bring the picture into focus. I liked Miami and expect to return by next winter.

 

[cirdan]

It also looks like there is a RR line that comes down from the north to that area and then veers east to the Port area. Is this the trackage they will use.

That spur is used by FEC to serve the port.

I understand the line was out of use for quite a stretch due to hurricane damage to one of the bridges, but this was recently repaired, I think with the help of some TIGER money.

I'm not sure how intensively the line is used. Looking at Google Earth there doesn't appear to be space to load more than one train at a time. I think in the past there used to be more rail spurs in the port area but these have not been put back.

Presently the port traffic has the line to itself but it is being upgraded for Brightline, who will be the main user.

 

[jis]

FEC is in the process of reactivating its Port Miami access in a very big way. Here is an article describing some of what is going on: http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2014/05/07/seaport-rail-expand/

Here is a brief description from Port Miami: http://www.miamidade.gov/portmiami/rail-restoration.asp

Another one from Port Miami and FEC: http://www.miamidade.gov/portmiami/on-dock-rail.asp

 

[chrsjrcj]

Now hiring- locomotive engineers

I'll be curious to see what type of folks do they go after. Current FEC train crew, Amtrak crew, Tr-Rail crew? I imagine a mixture of both. I also suppose that depends on how competitive the pay is (which isn't listed, and is probably negotiable depending on experience).

 

[cirdan]

Now hiring- locomotive engineers

I'll be curious to see what type of folks do they go after. Current FEC train crew, Amtrak crew, Tr-Rail crew? I imagine a mixture of both. I also suppose that depends on how competitive the pay is (which isn't listed, and is probably negotiable depending on experience).

I'm surprised they're looking for fully trained engineers.

I guess there aren't too many of those in Florida sitting around in Florida looking for a job,

So either they'll have to poach them from other employers / Railroads (Amtrak, Tr-Rail, CSX, etc) which will only work if they offer significantly better pay or working conditions.

Or they will have to train them themselves, which I would have considered the more logical path.

 

[Palmetto]

It's likely the larger railroads have furloughed some engineers due to the downturn in freight traffic.

 

[cirdan]

It's likely the larger railroads have furloughed some engineers due to the downturn in freight traffic.

good point.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

So this is happening.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-orlando-airport-south-terminal-traffic-20160602-story.html

 

[jis]

I just drove by there the other day. Amazingly massive construction! You can already see the rail right of way coming in from the north into the station that AAF will follow.

Of course it is more than just a rail station. It involves a huge parking structure and starting construction next year is the South Air Terminal Complex Phase I with twenty something gates, part of which will become the International Terminal when completed.

And then, SunRail will come in from the South and a Light Rail line will be built to I-Drive area allegedly. Of course the inter terminal people mover is already under construction to connect the current North Terminal Complex to the new South Terminal Complex and Intermodal station.