Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[user 1215]

This may be a way to recycle rail. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6793644,139.5184709,3a,75y,332.44h,91.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swpvOM8qT7aGUi_WwYKgFBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This is close to my school when I was growing up in Japan. Notice on the street side, they are using old rail with rebar through them. On the other side of the tracks are concrete pylons with concrete ties, but there is a string of barbed wire at the top. Neither are that tumultuous to climb over. I suppose it's a cultural thing. But they get their fair share of suicides in Japan as well. Not as many trespasser incidents, but enough intentional infractions. But even that has taken a bit of a downward curve, as families are billed for cleanup by the railroad. As selfish an act suicide is, this burden causes many to think before they dishonor their family.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

The plan is to fence off the 110-mph Lincoln route St Louis-CHI in its second phase, if there ever is such a thing. All the work to date was built leaving space for the desired fencing. But even in phase one they bragged that a good many miles are already fenced off.

 

[jis]

I didn't say it'd be cheap, I said that's how you do it. Another alternative is to slow all the trains down to 5mph and surround them with 20ft of foam rubber and bubble wrap...but that's what PTC is for.

The best alternative I think is to stop trying to run trains and invest in something with better returns.

It is completely ridiculous to expect that one can realistically come up with a scheme to stop people who go around every form of possible protective warning system to put themselves in front of moving trains. Where is any vague attempt at instilling the sense of personal responsibility among individuals?

 

[chrsjrcj]

I did another round trip "joyride" during the midday today. Select was again sold out, and there was a decent amount of passengers spread out between the three other coaches. In fact, I notice Select was sold out for most of the trains today. Even though Select was available when I booked my ticket, I opted for Smart again. I don't find the free drinks and snacks to be worth the $5 on a short trip, and besides, a free small bottle of water is offered to Smart coach passengers.

The good news is it looks like most people are actually using the service as intended, rather than just a joy ride. Brightline is still working on the street connection between the WPB station and Clematis Street which will make the service easily accessible to Clematis Street patrons that want to use the train. I know many business owners on Clematis Street have been eagerly anticipating the opening of the service, and judging by the amount of people using Brightline during the last two weekends they shouldn't be too disappointed. I guess it will remain to be seen how long the buzz holds up with curious travelers between WPB and FTL.

As far as the trains, both runs were done in under the 40 minutes scheduled. On the return trip, I did notice a woman in Boynton Beach holding a cardboard sign that read "Death Train." Her time would've been better spent educating pedestrians and motorists about the dangers of trying to beat the train. Other than that, a smooth uneventful trip.

 

[user 1215]

Brightline is plagued by another trespasser who tried to race the train. Doesn't Amtrak and perhaps Tri Rail hit 79 mph just a mile away?

 

[AGM.12]

Regardless of whether it is freight or passenger, anytime a new service is started up there will be fatal collisions because the public is not used to that service running. Near where I live, NS started a new intermodal service to Atlanta from Charleston, SC about 30 years ago. During the first month there were, I believe at least two crossing collisions that killed four people simply because they were so used to there not being any trains running during that time of day.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

I've been wondering for a long time. Are the sets semi-permanently attached or are they detachable?

 

[Blackwolf]

I've been wondering for a long time. Are the sets semi-permanently attached or are they detachable?

I believe they are semi-permanently attached.

 

[jis]

Yes. They are semi-permanently attached, like the Acelas.

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[user 1215]

So, once again, Congress-Critters are shooting before taking aim. Last year, in South Florida, there were 23 fatalities, spread amongst CSX, FEC, Tri-Rail and Amtrak: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-reg-train-deaths-rise-20171218-story.html

I think the Feds are upset that a private business could possibly succeed with better, cleaner, faster service.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

?

 

[user 1215]

!

 

[MattW]

Ok, I pretty much hate brightline's guts over their imposing airport-style security theater and thinking every passenger is potential hair-trigger lunatic, but this is positively NUTS! http://floridapolitics.com/archives/254332-brightline-safety-improvement-tab

Why aren't they demanding the same of Tri-Rail which runs at the same speeds?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Senator Mayfield wants to make sure the mantra of "no costs to the taxpayers," is followed when it comes to funding the necessary improvements for this "private" enterprise.

Florida senator says Brightline high-speed rail is not taxpayers' responsibility
Mayfield's proposed legislation calls for safety without 'stopping progress'

Unlike what would have occurred if Scott had accepted the Obama money and built out a high-speed system, All Aboard Florida already had rights to the tracks, so their startup costs were much lower and could be privately funded with no cost to taxpayers.

Sort of.

State Sen. Debbie Mayfield (R-Melbourne) said All Aboard Florida’s Brightline trains will cost taxpayers. Specifically, more trains on the tracks means more maintenance, especially at rail crossings. When maintenance is done on public at-grade crossings, FEC passes all of those costs onto local municipalities, counties and the state.“It’s inappropriate,” Mayfield said. “All Aboard Florida should bear the cost of maintaining the equipment they’ve installed to run their trains and not push that cost off on the taxpayer.”

On the same day News 6 met with Mayfield, she had just finished a meeting with a representative of one municipality that had recently received a $400,000 bill from FEC for track maintenance.“That's a cost that a lot of the taxpayers don’t understand,” Mayfield said. “The railroad kind of just gives them a bill and says, ‘Here's your bill, this is what you owe us.’”

Mayfield told News 6 she wants to make sure maintenance and safety costs for Brightline and any other high-speed rail is not dumped on the taxpayers, who “receive no financial benefit from the rail system.”SB 572, The Florida High-Speed Passenger Rail Act, introduced by Mayfield and co-sponsored by state Sen. George Gainer ® Panama City, is expected to be heard in Tallahassee this session.The bill would require any company operating a high-speed passenger rail system in the state “to be solely responsible for certain maintenance, improvement and upgrade costs.”

Those areas include being accountable and repairing “railroad roadbed, track, and railroad culverts within the confines of the public street or highway,” and “streets or pedestrian grade crossings lying between the rails and for a distance outside the rails of one-foot beyond the end of the railroad tie.”Mayfield’s office calculated that there are 349 at-grade public crossings between Miami and Cocoa affecting approximately one million taxpayers living in those areas.

“You know, when this train leaves Palm Beach it will not stop until it gets to Orlando,” Mayfield said. “So the train will just be coming through (those communities) without any stops.”

 

[chrsjrcj]

Ok, I pretty much hate brightline's guts over their imposing airport-style security theater and thinking every passenger is potential hair-trigger lunatic, but this is positively NUTS! http://floridapolitics.com/archives/254332-brightline-safety-improvement-tab

Why aren't they demanding the same of Tri-Rail which runs at the same speeds?

The security is far less intrusive than airports, and even less intrusive than attending a concert or visiting a theme park. You don't have to take any objects out of your pockets, you simply walk through waist high posts.

This same state senator has been trying to push this bill for years now. As it is, municipalities pay for the costs of the railroad crossings, so the $400k bill she's whining about happens with or without Brightline. It's also interesting that the bill changes the definition of high speed rail to include "passenger trains that travel faster than 80 mph that wasn't carrying passengers prior to January 1, 2017." Brightline argues that the bill unfairly targets them, as the only railroad in the state that meets that definition. This is clearly another attempt to shutdown Brightline, or prevent it from traveling through the Treasure Coast.

 

[jis]

Ok, I pretty much hate brightline's guts over their imposing airport-style security theater and thinking every passenger is potential hair-trigger lunatic, but this is positively NUTS! http://floridapolitics.com/archives/254332-brightline-safety-improvement-tab

Why aren't they demanding the same of Tri-Rail which runs at the same speeds?

I beg to disagree with your assessment. It is clear that you have not been anywhere near Brightline and are just being an armchair jockey on this matter. [emoji6]
There is nothing airport style about the minimal security process.

One has to remember that this is Florida where I have to go through a security checkpost and wanding to get to my doctor’s office in a hospital building to make sure that some lunatic carrying a gun does not manage to get in there. [emoji53]

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[user 1215]

Ok, I pretty much hate brightline's guts over their imposing airport-style security theater and thinking every passenger is potential hair-trigger lunatic, but this is positively NUTS! http://floridapolitics.com/archives/254332-brightline-safety-improvement-tab

Why aren't they demanding the same of Tri-Rail which runs at the same speeds?

Glad you aren't hair-triggered...

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I had to get from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando yesterday so I took Brightline to west palm and walked over to catch the Star from there.

Super impressive operation... If they continue as is, I think it will be extremely popular. Brightline at 79 mph compared to the star at 79 mph is crazy... The Brightline train is crazy smooth.

The operation is very modern... Security is a bit over the top... But such is life.

Stations are awesome with seating areas, charging ports everywhere, a coffee shop / market, even some souvenirs available.

 

[user 1215]

I had to get from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando yesterday so I took Brightline to west palm and walked over to catch the Star from there.

Super impressive operation... If they continue as is, I think it will be extremely popular. Brightline at 79 mph compared to the star at 79 mph is crazy... The Brightline train is crazy smooth.

The operation is very modern... Security is a bit over the top... But such is life.

Stations are awesome with seating areas, charging ports everywhere, a coffee shop / market, even some souvenirs available.

How is security over the top?
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[Anderson]

I think it's "over the top" in the sense that for all intents and purposes, many of us have never seen a railroad with more security than a ticket barrier and a K-9 team. I'm really not sure what that security is for...I'm sort-of wondering what would actually set off those posts, though the bag scanning might be more effective.

That said, I remain worried that since the checkpoints exist, they create a place where it would be easy to implement some lousy security theater later.

 

[jis]

If the risk profile is perceived to increase, say with a few bombs going off on trains, rest assured security theater will increase even if there is nothing in place at present.

In places where there is significant perceived risk one gets to go through metal detectors and get wanded to enter malls and cinema houses too. And this happens in places where there are footfalls beyond anything that most Americans have ever seen. So the argument that to many people etc. does not really stand a chance.

At present all that it will prevent is someone getting into the system with a gun or such.

The fact of the matter is that mainland US is still a relatively safe environment with only stray incidents, and there is very little systemic risks to worry about yet. But that could change as civil society disintegrates, not that it is imminent, but it is within the realm of possibilities. And the danger is going to be primarily from indigenous folks and not from outsiders, but still outsiders will be blamed, since no one likes to admit that they themselves are screwed up.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It's just a lot of security for a glorified commuter rail operation. They are all over the place. Security officers were at the entrance where you buy tickets, obviously at the security screening, in the waiting room, and one on each end of the train when boarding / detraining.

The baggage check itself is fine... I was pretty much the only person with a suitcase (I was actually traveling long distance with my transfer ha) and they treated me so nice. They lifted my bag on and off the belt and were very friendly.

Walking through the posts is just.. walking through posts... Hard to complain about that ha.

 

[user 1215]

Though I disagree with Crescent-Zephyr's description to be over the top (Excessive presence may be one thing, but personal intrusion would be my personal over the top factor), I would say that it would be much easier to sabotage a railroad from the outside than from the inside.

I would caution Brightline preventing people from legally carrying a gun onboard the train in a state where it is legal to do so. What's someone going to do? Hold up a train and get off at the next station? Pull the emergency? Seriously, I don't think there's been a train robbery in over 100 years.

 

[chrsjrcj]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Thalys_train_attack

 

[GBNorman]

I did take the joyride outlined earlier at this topic.

I must agree that Brightline is a Class Act. While I haven't been on Acela this decade, I think Brightline has it topped.

But simply because they are Class hardly means that they are providing meaningful transportation offering joyrides. As I write, I am looking at the construction site called Miami Central. Volks, it ain't going to.be ready anytime soon - and who knows when or if it will move forth to Orlando. There are too many barriers

That there have been three fatalities in about as many weeks. I cringed when the train bisected an entertainment district at Delray Beach at track speed. Someone with a bit too much firewater is going to have things go bad - and that is going to cost AAF some whopper bucks.