Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[cirdan]

They have started doing preparatory draining and other mitigation construction along SR528 between Cocoa and Orlando, in preparation to start actual earthwork for the ROW. One major intersection on SR528 has been completely modified to grade separate the entry-exit ramps from the Brightline ROW. ROW work should begin mid year this year once the drainage structures have been put in place.

What do you mean by drainage structures.

Does this mean temporary drainage to permit construction work? Or is there going to be some permanent drtainage system to keep the tracks dry? Isn't the normal way to build railroads across a virgin swamp usually to dump massive amounts of crushed rock to provide a stable foundation, which, once it has settled, doesn't need specific drainage? Crushed rock being pretty much self-draining.

Or are you talking more about diverting, protecting or accomodating existing drainage ditches that cross the future track bed? For example by building culverts?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Sorry venture! It was GBnorman's post, not yours, that seemed to doubt the completion.

I agree with the central transit hub but where would that be? The Lynx station? The Amtrak station? The airport is as much of a transit hub as anything in Orlando I think.

 

[jis]

What do you mean by drainage structures.

Does this mean temporary drainage to permit construction work? Or is there going to be some permanent drtainage system to keep the tracks dry? Isn't the normal way to build railroads across a virgin swamp usually to dump massive amounts of crushed rock to provide a stable foundation, which, once it has settled, doesn't need specific drainage? Crushed rock being pretty much self-draining.

Or are you talking more about diverting, protecting or accomodating existing drainage ditches that cross the future track bed? For example by building culverts?

Permanent drainage management structures, includes drains and some culvert work too, but not any major bridge/viaduct work yet, like the ones needed for crossing the St.Johns or the Econlockhatchee River basins.

Both the Dallas Blvd and the International Corporate Park Blvd exit ramps have been/are in the process of being rebuilt with grade separation from the Brightline ROW.

 

[user 1215]

Totally off topic - but I was reading through some of the earlier posts in the thread from 2012. Interesting history!

But I came across a name I haven't seen in a while, and it was confirmed the he hasn't been on this site for three years. Anyone know whatever happened to Mr. George Harris?

Meanwhile, I wish I had the time to read all 96 pages of history, but I don't, and for some reason the search function doesn't work with this browser at work. So, please indulge me if already asked: Will the deviation from Cocoa to the airport be single or double tracked?

 

[jis]

George got sick of folks on AU and left.

In real life he is still around AFAIK.

 

[user 1215]

George got sick of folks on AU and left.

In real life he is still around AFAIK.

I hope so. I think he was as knowledgeable from an engineering standpoint as you, but had a politically different viewpoint.
Anyway, hope he is well.

 

[jis]

Meanwhile, I wish I had the time to read all 96 pages of history, but I don't, and for some reason the search function doesn't work with this browser at work. So, please indulge me if already asked: Will the deviation from Cocoa to the airport be single or double tracked?

It will be double track except for a 7 mile single track section between a mile or two west of Dallas Rd and Narcoussee Road. AFAICT even there most of the ROW will have space for two tracks but initially there will be a single track. The only part where things are really tight is about two miles where SR528 intersects SR417 between the Toll Plaza on SR528 and Narcoussee Road.

This is based on 2015 Track Charts. I don't know if things have changed since then. They have not filed any changes with FRA since then, so I presume not. But actual construction is still probably six to nine months away in that area. I believe originally the single track was a cost saving measure in an area that will require lots of over and under passes to get around the tangle of ramps at the SR528/SR 417 interchange.

 

[cirdan]

Meanwhile, I wish I had the time to read all 96 pages of history, but I don't, and for some reason the search function doesn't work with this browser at work. So, please indulge me if already asked: Will the deviation from Cocoa to the airport be single or double tracked?

It will be double track except for a 7 mile single track section between a mile or two west of Dallas Rd and Narcoussee Road. AFAICT even there most of the ROW will have space for two tracks but initially there will be a single track. The only part where things are really tight is about two miles where SR528 intersects SR417 between the Toll Plaza on SR528 and Narcoussee Road.

This is based on 2015 Track Charts. I don't know if things have changed since then. They have not filed any changes with FRA since then, so I presume not. But actual construction is still probably six to nine months away in that area. I believe originally the single track was a cost saving measure in an area that will require lots of over and under passes to get around the tangle of ramps at the SR528/SR 417 interchange.

Intersting. Thanks for that explanation.

The new section is going to be 125mph. Is that correct?

Will that speed be attainable throughout the length of the new section? Or will the snaking that will probably be required to fit between the various highway ramps impose lower speeds?

What about the turnouts at the transitions between the double and single track sections. Will these be 125mph enabled?

 

[jis]

From East to West it is 110mph from Cocoa to just east of I-95, 125mph from thence to about a mile west of SR417 interchange, 90mph from thence to close to Goldenrod Rd. and then slowing down in steps through 80, 50, 35 and 30 down to 20mph entry into the station through the Airport property. The station will have three platform tracks on two platforms.

The transition from double to single track at the eastern end of the single track is at 125mph through a high speed switch. At the west end it is at 90mph.

In short there will be quite a long stretch of continuous grade separated 125mph running.

 

[user 1215]

I don't know if y'all read the comments to the final environmental impact study (FEIS), but they were released back in December and man, this makes for some wild reading. Seriously, if these folks let AAF just proceed, and spend their time and energy making it safe... Sheeesh.

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Document/17653<--opens PDF

I personally like the comments by Indian River County, Florida; Martin County, Florida; and CARE FL: "Alternatives Analysis Needs to Consider Hyperloop One Project"

ROFLOL

 

[jis]

The level of idiocy in those counties is quite unquestionable

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Once Chicago builds a Loop O'Hare hyperloop everybody will be doing it!

 

[frequentflyer]

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/silencing-brightline-one-fourth-crossings-get-improvements/sa5ntuDPjSNXF0AI2Zbs1O/

 

[Pere Flyer]

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/silencing-brightline-one-fourth-crossings-get-improvements/sa5ntuDPjSNXF0AI2Zbs1O/

The headline is misleading, but the article is quite balanced.

“The infrastructure in place will provide a safe environment for those who abide by the law,” [Malissa] Booth said.

Thank you, Ms. Booth, for providing the voice of reason!

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[Brian_tampa]

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2018/03/07/brightline-president-train-ridership-3x-expected.html

Ridership 3X what they expected and Miami to open by end of April. Great news and this shows that Florida will support passenger trains if done right (frequent, on-time service, and good employees such as I have experienced with Brightline).

 

[JRR]

The hysteria over the accidents to date is ridiculous. The people who caused the accidents all went around the gates. I favor law enforcement strictly enforce the law.

Unfortunately, the line is of no benefit to me in Boca.

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[me_little_me]

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/silencing-brightline-one-fourth-crossings-get-improvements/sa5ntuDPjSNXF0AI2Zbs1O/

“The infrastructure in place will provide a safe environment for those who abide by the law,” Booth said.

Isn't that nearly the whole problem? People don't abide by the law. I, for one, have NEVER seen police parked near a crossing to give out tickets to the idiots. And so many cities have red light cameras and send tickets to violators but how many have crossing cameras and do the same. Just like red light cameras (with all their faults) have reduced the number of people running the lights, crossing cameras can do the same for violators without any of the same downsides.

 

[cirdan]

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/silencing-brightline-one-fourth-crossings-get-improvements/sa5ntuDPjSNXF0AI2Zbs1O/

“The infrastructure in place will provide a safe environment for those who abide by the law,” Booth said.

Isn't that nearly the whole problem? People don't abide by the law. I, for one, have NEVER seen police parked near a crossing to give out tickets to the idiots. And so many cities have red light cameras and send tickets to violators but how many have crossing cameras and do the same. Just like red light cameras (with all their faults) have reduced the number of people running the lights, crossing cameras can do the same for violators without any of the same downsides.

This, absolutely

OTOH, I beleive that for rail lines with frequent trains and higher speeds, full segregation should be a long term objective.

 

[JRR]

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/silencing-brightline-one-fourth-crossings-get-improvements/sa5ntuDPjSNXF0AI2Zbs1O/

“The infrastructure in place will provide a safe environment for those who abide by the law,” Booth said.
Isn't that nearly the whole problem? People don't abide by the law. I, for one, have NEVER seen police parked near a crossing to give out tickets to the idiots. And so many cities have red light cameras and send tickets to violators but how many have crossing cameras and do the same. Just like red light cameras (with all their faults) have reduced the number of people running the lights, crossing cameras can do the same for violators without any of the same downsides.

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[JRR]

Great idea. While red light cameras do have some negative results re: accidents, the cameras would be a great use of them without any negative consequences that I can think of.

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[MattW]

They're also flagrantly unconstitutional and nothing more than an attempt at profiteering by local governments. I'm all for increased rail safety, but not like that. Two things need to happen for increased rail safety. One, increased enforcement by actual police. Ticket cars and pedestrians alike for violating the crossing. Not to the level of true zero tolerance, but close. Second, go after the people and estates of the people that cause this. This is two-fold. At the scene, release the train as soon as the relief crew is there, no more "investigating." The local Barney Fifes can play Joe Friday all they want once the passengers have disembarked at the terminal and the train is in the yard. Then sue the victim if they live or their family/estate if they don't.

 

[jis]

They're also flagrantly unconstitutional and nothing more than an attempt at profiteering by local governments. I'm all for increased rail safety, but not like that. Two things need to happen for increased rail safety. One, increased enforcement by actual police. Ticket cars and pedestrians alike for violating the crossing. Not to the level of true zero tolerance, but close. Second, go after the people and estates of the people that cause this. This is two-fold. At the scene, release the train as soon as the relief crew is there, no more "investigating." The local Barney Fifes can play Joe Friday all they want once the passengers have disembarked at the terminal and the train is in the yard. Then sue the victim if they live or their family/estate if they don't.

Whether they are unconstitutional or not is currently an open issue and not a settled one. Of course each can have their own opinion on the matter, but that is of little value in a legal discourse. So until the Courts rule otherwise, they are just fine.

 

[JRR]

It appears that perhaps Boca Raton is doing something. See the attached picture of the Dixie Highway / Spanish River crossing this morning:



An actual Police presence.

As to whether a camera at rr crossings would be constitutional or not, I don’t believe that there had been a court determination of that use.

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[Blackwolf]

It appears that perhaps Boca Raton is doing something. See the attached picture of the Dixie Highway / Spanish River crossing this morning:

IMG_4294.jpg

An actual Police presence.

As to whether a camera at rr crossings would be constitutional or not, I don’t believe that there had been a court determination of that use.

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Is the Porta-John a new arrival as well? Because if it is, maybe they actually intend on having someone there for more than a few minutes.

Coffee and pastries often lead to an accute need for facilities.

 

[JRR]

Don’t know the answer as I don’t usually go by here but went by earlier this morning and saw the cop there with his bible gum machine on and when I came back an hour later, he was still there and snapped the picture while stopped at the light at Dixie Highway.

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