Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[jis]

Tri-Rail Downtown Miami Link

 

[MattW]

Are they going to search Tri-Rail passengers too?

 

[Anderson]

Based on the layout, it seems quite possible (and probably likely) that they'll have security for Brightline but not for Tri-Rail (if only because this would be the only "secured" Tri-Rail station). Also possible is semi-random security screening for Tri-Rail, but that would probably be problematic given the relatively low frequency (e.g. someone missing the hourly walk-up commuter train because of random security is not likely to be a happy camper...or a repeat customer).

 

[Anderson]

Looking at the map for the Tri-Rail line (and trying to recall the Tri-Rail-on-FEC proposals), is there any proposal for a station anywhere between Miami Central and 79th Street down the road?

 

[blueman271]

Looking at the map for the Tri-Rail line (and trying to recall the Tri-Rail-on-FEC proposals), is there any proposal for a station anywhere between Miami Central and 79th Street down the road?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe something in the vicinity of 36th Street to serve the Wynwood, Edgewater and Beverly Terrace neighborhoods.

 

[jis]

Are they going to search Tri-Rail passengers too?

I believe that the concourses for Brightline and TriRail are entirely separate. but we'll see. Specifically I do not think that the TriRail passengers will ever come in touch with any Brightline operating staff or facility at the station.

Looking at the map for the Tri-Rail line (and trying to recall the Tri-Rail-on-FEC proposals), is there any proposal for a station anywhere between Miami Central and 79th Street down the road?

If Brightline has its way, there will be no TriRail on FEC south of West Palm Beach. The commuter operation there will be operated by Brightline using separate Commuter equipment. Naturally there will be many more stations than the ones used for Brightline Express service.

 

[Anderson]

Are they going to search Tri-Rail passengers too?

I believe that the concourses for Brightline and TriRail are entirely separate. but we'll see. Specifically I do not think that the TriRail passengers will ever come in touch with any Brightline operating staff or facility at the station.

Looking at the map for the Tri-Rail line (and trying to recall the Tri-Rail-on-FEC proposals), is there any proposal for a station anywhere between Miami Central and 79th Street down the road?

If Brightline has its way, there will be no TriRail on FEC south of West Palm Beach. The commuter operation there will be operated by Brightline using separate Commuter equipment. Naturally there will be many more stations than the ones used for Brightline Express service.

Ok, this is the first I'm hearing of this...is Brightline gunning to actually run their own (internally-financed and internally-controlled) commuter service? Or are they shooting to get a contract with SFRTA? The second one seems most likely, though it would seem odd to have the same agency paying for two commuter lines that don't "talk" to one another. The first one actually made me a little dizzy to even think about, though given that all they would seem to need would be the trains, operating crews, and perhaps some additional sidings it doesn't seem to be the usual leap to comprehend (even if I'd be surprised to see them be able to make money off of that).

 

[jis]

Service subsidized by the counties. The Brightline contract gives Brightline the first right to run any passenger service on FECR or something to that effect, and they have asserted their right to use that.

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[user 1215]

Service subsidized by the counties. The Brightline contract gives Brightline the first right to run any passenger service on FECR or something to that effect, and they have asserted their right to use that.

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I still don't get it. Tri Rail is literally a mile to the West. It makes plenty of stops. More trains-whoever operates it-will hurt Brightline.
I do agree with a joint terminal for transfers.

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[chrsjrcj]

Tri-Rail serves car-oriented suburbs along 95, while the FEC corridor is more transit friendly. Cities along the FEC have done a lot of work over the last couple of decades toward more pedestrian friendly and less car oriented development.

 

[jis]

How will running more trains that takes twice the time hurt an Express service eventually to Orlando? Does NJ Transit hurt Amtrak on the NEC? The fare differential would be similar too I suspect. Yeah Tri-Rail may be hurt a bit with Commuter Service run by Brightline on the FECR. But that is the right that they have managed to enshrine in their agreement with FECR for investing in the FECR infrastructure, and sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do

FECR is attractive for commuter service because it runs through the down town of each town that it runs through. Tri-Rail is often significantly west of the downtown area and is more oriented towards serving auto-centric suburbia to access the Miami CBDs and Airport.

 

[user 1215]

How will running more trains that takes twice the time hurt an Express service eventually to Orlando? Does NJ Transit hurt Amtrak on the NEC? The fare differential would be similar too I suspect. Yeah Tri-Rail may be hurt a bit with Commuter Service run by Brightline on the FECR. But that is the right that they have managed to enshrine in their agreement with FECR for investing in the FECR infrastructure, and sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do

FECR is attractive for commuter service because it runs through the down town of each town that it runs through. Tri-Rail is often significantly west of the downtown area and is more oriented towards serving auto-centric suburbia to access the Miami CBDs and Airport.

Exactly. More trains at half the speed would require significant passing tracks in addition to 100% double track. Perhaps passing tracks at commuter stations would be logical like at most Shinkansen stations. It just seems like they would be adding significant bottlenecks to a very busy line. It also doesn't help that the FEC has about 3x as many grade crossings.
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[jis]

They actually have a neat simulation showing how it will work, and what additional passing tracks will need to be built. It does not bottleneck at all. If you cannot operate 3tph plus an occasional freight, in each direction on a mostly double track railroad with passing sidings at strategically placed location I suspect you do not know what you are doing.

 

[Anderson]

Also, something to bear in mind is that the commuter service would act as a "feeder" for the Orlando service and the presumed service to Jacksonville. In particular, I'd note that in Brightline's more aggressive projections, the FLL-WPB segment looked like it was rather "over capacity", so bleeding off some of the local traffic might help save space there (so you don't block out MIA/FLL-Orlando pax with FLL-WPB pax). Also worth considering is that any agreement would probably give Brightline the ability to stop at several of the stations of their choosing (they've indicated that they want the right to stop at six stations in South Florida in negotiations with Tri-Rail).

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Also, something to bear in mind is that the commuter service would act as a "feeder" for the Orlando service and the presumed service to Jacksonville. In particular, I'd note that in Brightline's more aggressive projections, the FLL-WPB segment looked like it was rather "over capacity", so bleeding off some of the local traffic might help save space there (so you don't block out MIA/FLL-Orlando pax with FLL-WPB pax). Also worth considering is that any agreement would probably give Brightline the ability to stop at several of the stations of their choosing (they've indicated that they want the right to stop at six stations in South Florida in negotiations with Tri-Rail).

Another thing I think they should advertise once the extension to Orlando opens is the fact that the West Palm Beach station is within walking distance from the Tri-Rail/Amtrak station, so connections could be made to local stations on Tri-Rail from Orlando.

 

[Anderson]

Also, something to bear in mind is that the commuter service would act as a "feeder" for the Orlando service and the presumed service to Jacksonville. In particular, I'd note that in Brightline's more aggressive projections, the FLL-WPB segment looked like it was rather "over capacity", so bleeding off some of the local traffic might help save space there (so you don't block out MIA/FLL-Orlando pax with FLL-WPB pax). Also worth considering is that any agreement would probably give Brightline the ability to stop at several of the stations of their choosing (they've indicated that they want the right to stop at six stations in South Florida in negotiations with Tri-Rail).

Another thing I think they should advertise once the extension to Orlando opens is the fact that the West Palm Beach station is within walking distance from the Tri-Rail/Amtrak station, so connections could be made to local stations on Tri-Rail from Orlando.

That may well come up. TBH they should consider running a shuttle of some sort: At the risk of losing some business MIA/FLL-WPB (and some parking revenue), I think the number of folks who are going to be inclined to meet the "wrong" train out of Miami to save a few bucks is likely to, at peak hours, be far outweighed by folks who either couldn't get a ticket or who're traveling from one of the other stations. Also, it would allow a "full" transfer from Miami International (where Tri-Rail terminates) to Orlando International, and I think there is a market for that, depending on faring rules and the like.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Article with good photos of the Miami station interior:

https://www.thenextmiami.com/sneak-peek-inside-brightlines-terminal-at-miamicentral/

 

[blueman271]

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/04/17/tri-rail-wont-roll-into-downtown-miami-this-year/

Looks like Tri-Rail wont get to Downtown Miami until sometime in 2019.

 

[user 1215]

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/04/17/tri-rail-wont-roll-into-downtown-miami-this-year/

Looks like Tri-Rail wont get to Downtown Miami until sometime in 2019.

How are they routing Tri-Rail?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2018/04/17/tri-rail-wont-roll-into-downtown-miami-this-year/

Looks like Tri-Rail wont get to Downtown Miami until sometime in 2019.

How are they routing Tri-Rail?

Trains will operate the normal route south to Metrorail Transfer where they will turn east via a newly built connection to a line that runs east to the FEC tracks, at which point Tri-Rail will turn south again to run alongside Brightline into Downtown Miami.

 

[jis]

The actual connection to FEC is south of Metro Transfer at CP Iris.

At the point Tri-Rail turns south, it basically joins the Brightline tracks to run up the ramp into Miami Central Station. Tri-Rail is assigned the westmost two tracks. Brightline has exclusive access to the eastmost three tracks at Miami Central Station.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Brightline has a new schedule that goes in effect this Saturday.

My guess is they are operating dry runs to Miami, while still carrying passengers between WPB and FTL.

Also, you can't book a ride for any date starting May 12th. My guess, service is penciled in to start that date.

 

[jis]

As long as it starts before May 26th, we are good for our ride during the FECRS Annual Convention in West Palm Beach. It involves a round trip to Miami and a visit to the various facilities at Miami Central Station, similar to what we did at the West Palm Beach station last year.

New schedule in prep for extension of service to Miami:

https://gobrightline.com/trip/schedule/?utm_source=brightline&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EINFPRC1&utm_content=CTA

 

[Anderson]

...well, it looks like I might be more-or-less living in Florida next month at this rate.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I'm going to be there to ride it on May 27th so hopefully it is open. Does anyone know what the fares are going to be yet?