Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[Anderson]

Unrelated, the GOAA board is also to consider an agenda item to officially name the ITF center at MCO the "Rick Scott and Ann Scott ITF". I guess that when Gov Scott approved spending several $100M of state monies on the ITF, it was an important decision personaly for Gov Scott. I will have to stomach seeing that name every time I go there in return for it being built! LOL

In all fairness, we're only talking about this project having happened because he put a fork in the previous HSR project, giving AAF an opening.

Yes and that fork quite possibly could have been tainted (See Hollingsworth). There was bipartisan support in the FL legislature for HSR and it would have been built but for one man. Scott was very divisive during his first 2 or 3 years in office. He has led the charge against good growth management regulations as well as environmental laws in general. Even previous Republican governors in recent history have never rolled back rules and signed new laws in such a way that benefit developers at the expense of the environment here. I could go on about how much harm he has done. AAF is probably one of the few good things to come out of his being Governor.

Yes...given that it's a political animal and given how broad the support was for HSR, I remember (after the courts said he had the ability to reject the money...IIRC the view more or less said that the legislature couldn't just jam a bill through over his veto on the topic) wondering what would have happened if the legislature had decided to throw him out a month into office over the decision (treating an impeachment like a VONC...something that I truly think we'd be better off if we saw happen more often in this country).

I digress, though: Back in January I got to see something happen that I've seen people lack the context to comprehend. I'm actually hopeful that we'll see a decent system get built up in FL, and it won't be buried in mountains of red tape and state/federal fights and subject to Robert Moses-style financial planning. So even if he blundered his way into a positive contribution, I'm just as happy to let his name go on the frakking station.

 

[Brian_tampa]

I digress, though: Back in January I got to see something happen that I've seen people lack the context to comprehend. I'm actually hopeful that we'll see a decent system get built up in FL, and it won't be buried in mountains of red tape and state/federal fights and subject to Robert Moses-style financial planning. So even if he blundered his way into a positive contribution, I'm just as happy to let his name go on the frakking station.

I think AAF will expand (or at least announce it) to Tampa and/or Jacksonville eventually by 2025, which is what they need to become a truly viable and useful system for Florida. Let's face it, the Orlando station at the airport by itself is not the best situation for them either, other than it is a source of alot of passengers. AAF is primarily a real estate development entity that runs trains to or near its properties. AAF needs more TOD in the Tampa and Jacksonville downtown areas as that is where the real money to be made is with any expansion.
The Orlando airport could become the hub of a future Florida passenger rail network. It is centrally located and offers connectivity to the rest of the world - something that is only seen in Asia and Europe with the level of integration between modes that is planned at MCO. The Brightline station will be at the heart of the new international terminal when it gets fully built out in 15 or so years.

Because Florida has historically been, and still is, greatly influenced (some would say run) by developers, there is little chance that the state would get in the way of AAF expanding after Orlando has been connected. Look at how the Treasure Coast has lost almost every effort they have made to stop phase 2? There is a reason for that. The same reasons HSR had bipartisan support: it means more tourists and RE development for Florida in general.

 

[jis]

In other news Orlando International just became the busiest airport in Florida beating out Miami International for the first time, and that is even before any of Terminal C is in service.

OIA (MCO) has upto 10+13 new gates in the works for the immediate future and huge room to grow (physically) as against the space constrained Miami International. I wonder if there are any implications of this on AAF down the line, in a manner of speaking.

I digress, though: Back in January I got to see something happen that I've seen people lack the context to comprehend. I'm actually hopeful that we'll see a decent system get built up in FL, and it won't be buried in mountains of red tape and state/federal fights and subject to Robert Moses-style financial planning.

The would be not for the lack of trying though by many Republicans and even a few Democrats in the State Legislature. But then again, it is Florida afterall, the land of random political skullduggery

 

[Brian_tampa]

Brightline has moved personnel into the ITF station at MCO. Things are moving along quite nicely in Orlando for AAF.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2018/03/28/whats-next-now-that-brightline-crews-have-moved.html

On another subject, with Amtrak seeming to discontinue running charter and special trains, Brightline is now looking like they are the only ones who know how to run good passenger rail service in this country. BL is offering to run charters and special trains for events such as ball games and other major festivals that go late into the night. If they can keep this promise and maintain hourly service all day and evening, they will become a vital and needed service here in Florida. Unlike Amtrak that has two once a day trains in Florida that are of not much use to most people.

 

[AGM.12]

Looking ahead, Brightline mentioned that one market for its services would be Atlanta to Charlotte. Once they get to Charlotte, theoretically, would they be in a position to bid on running the North Carolina supported services currently operated by Amtrak? It would seem to be a logical extension to go all the way to Raleigh and tap into that real estate market. Who knows? maybe get a piece of the SEHSR action and head for Richmond and on north.

 

[Brian_tampa]

As far as expanding to the SE HSR corridor between Atlanta and Raleigh... well let's just say that Wes Edens (Founder of Fortress Investment Group, and he seems to actively support the concept of HrSR with TOD) is friends with one of the biggest RE developers in the Carolinas. I don't recall the name of the developer but he specifically mentioned wanting to have a BL type of service for the Atlanta to NC market. So who knows what the future may bring? IMO it is all about what terms that AAF/FECI can reach with the potential host railroads. If AAF can bring upgrades such as double tracking and increased speeds to the route in exchange for performance guarantees (like what they have with FECR), then I can definitely see AAF working with NS on this particular route.

I think BL Florida will be isolated operationally for many decades. I can instead see isolated corridors that will be developed independently from each other. Maybe sharing trainset types and other efficiencies much like Southwest Airlines takes advantage of with a single type of plane.

 

[blueman271]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fecrailway/permalink/1736809049713468/

According to the Florida East Coast Railway Society group on facebook, Brightline started running test trains to MiamiCentral yesterday.

 

[pennyk]

I was told today, while at the WPB station, that service to Miami will start in mid-April. That employee also informed me that service to Orlando should start in 18 months (which I do not believe).

The Select class car was full from Ft. Lauderdale to WPB, however, it was virtually empty on my return trip back to Ft. Lauderdale.

I was impressed with the stations, the train and the employees.

 

[jis]

By their own admission construction completion is 18 months from July. [emoji57]

So expect service some three to six months after that.

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[Anderson]

I'm trying to remember where Brightline mentioned that particular city pair...IIRC, Atlanta-Charlotte is one of the "big" city pairs that are ripe (along with some of the Texas pairs).

I tend to agree that we're likely to see the growth of some disconnected lines/limited systems.

As to the start schedule, I find that to be believable. That would put start-of-service in late spring 2020...which, I feel compelled to note, is less time than some studies have taken as well as having dealt with both frivilous lawsuits and not having had on-hand federal money to work with.

Edit: The mid-April timeline feels reasonable. Sigh...looks like I'll be taking another trip to Florida this spring;-)

 

[GBNorman]

I was told today, while at the WPB station, that service to Miami will start in mid-April. That employee also informed me that service to Orlando should start in 18 months (which I do not believe).

Ms. Penny K, if that was "Sunshine Gal", or otherwise the Station Manager at West Palm, I had a meet up with her myself on my January joyride.

Note the photo linked by Mr. Blueman in his immediate posting. Note the hard hats, the safety mesh, and that the non-rail structure could hardly be called complete. Even if rail has now been laid into the station (I could not tell waiting at the Government Center Metro station through a delay - and the apprehension I was feeling over the growing possibility of missing my flight home from MIA), that hardly makes it ready to handle revenue passengers. AAF has had enough safety issues (party at fault notwithstanding) since service started; need they add one arising from a revenue passenger injury?

But the gal at WP is a spokesman for AAF, and apparently the "party line" is now two more weeks for Miami Central service.

Ask me, and the answer will be closer to Xmas than Easter.

 

[pennyk]

Ms. Penny K, if that was "Sunshine Gal", or otherwise the Station Manager at West Palm, I had a meet up with her myself on my January joyride.

But the gal at WP is a spokesman for AAF, and apparently the "party line" is now two more weeks for Miami Central service.

The person to whom I spoke in WPB was a male employee and not a "gal" (woman). I believe he was a rank and file employee just checking on those of us in the Select waiting area. He was very friendly and went around asking waiting passengers if we had any questions.

 

[jis]

A dude instead of a gal eh?

So should we believe someone who has a stake in it or someone who has spent all his time saying only negative things and until yesterday firmly believed it won’t run at all? [emoji848] [emoji57]

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[user 1215]

This is what I could see of the Miami from the neighboring light rail platform. If they open this month, it'll be a miracle.

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[jis]

Since they just started testing last week, I would guess at the earliest by the end of the month, more likely sometime in May.

I don't think they plan to have the entire station concourse done when they start service. They will most likely have the lounge area and adequate number of platform access points done, and will finish the rest of the business area of the concourse in due course and have the businesses move in when ready.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Hm, I believe the two most western tracks (the side closest to Metrorail/Metromover) will be designated for Tri-Rail. Maybe they're focusing on the Brightline side (three eastern tracks).

If we're making a forum betting pool, I put my money on July. The sooner, the better. I look forward to taking Brightline to see the Marlins (better known today as the Yankees' farm team) and the Heat play.

 

[GBNorman]

Mr. Venture, it should be noted the photo within your immediate posting was taken from platform at the Metro Rail Government Center station, which is "heavy rail" to the same extent as is the Atlanta system, MARTA ( a system I use when there to get from "Ehh to Bee"). It is important to distinguish at that station as same is also served by Metro Mover; an automated "people mover"system.

As I've noted earlier in the topic, last January I had a "mite bit" more of a peek at what you photographed than I would have cared for. Metro Rail had "one of their delays" and I was getting quite apprehensive about making my flight home (it was OK - even if TSA at MIA is "Keystone Kops" when compared with ORD).

But "cutting to the chase", your photo is simply additional confirmation that opening by end of month is some kind of fantasy. I still hold "closer to Xmas than Easter". My January 2019 MCS-WP joyride is already planned.

 

[user 1215]

In Miami with my fam on vacation, and wife won't let me carve out time to ride even FTL-WPB.

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[Steve4031]

In Miami with my fam on vacation, and wife won't let me carve out time to ride even FTL-WPB.

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Grounds for divorce.

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[Mystic River Dragon]

Good grief, VentureForth, where are their priorities? Perhaps we will have a Gathering down there someday, and you'll be able to ride it then.

I'm betting on July for that part to open, because it seems everything I would love to be on the first ride of down there opens when it's too hot to visit!

Also, just planning ahead--what do people dress like on Brightline? Is it dressy? Corporate? Vacationer?

 

[jis]

When I rode it I was wearing my Cargo Pants, a typical Florida Bush Shirt and White Sneakers.

Just wear whatever comfortable clothes you would normally wear to hang out in Florida

BTW, speaking of Brightline service to Miami, the RPA/NARP plans to hold its Fall Meeting in Miami with several Brightline related events included, detail being decided.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

It would be nice if there was a way to know ahead of time what color the train would be. (Oh, the pink train--I'll wear my pink shoes! Oh, the green train--now where did I put those green slacks?

)

Also, can you go to that meeting even if you don't live in Florida? Do you know the dates yet, jis? If it's late enough in the fall that it won't be too hot, I might think about it and combine it with a visit with my retired priest friend who lives in FTL. (I was going to go to the one in Philly next weekend, but one of my cousins has decided to visit then.)

 

[jis]

It is usually sometime in October. The dates will be officially announced at the upcoming Spring Meeting in Alexandria I think.

 

[GBNorman]

At the Ft. Lauderdale station:

 

[GBNorman]

Brightline attire (on sale $12.99 at the station Gift Shoppe):