Brightline Trains West!

[Petur]

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Desert high-speed rail line could block sheep, mountain lions. Democrats want more crossings

''The California Department of Transportation, better known as Caltrans, is overseeing the private project that would add a zero-emissions railway from Victorville to Las Vegas as a connection between the entertainment hub and Los Angeles.''

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article255474876.html#storylink=cpy


https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article255474876.html

 

[user 1215]

I wouldn't say finally until track is actually getting laid. This sort of thing can take decades to develop and can easily be abandoned. I hope it does work out!!

 

[MARC Rider]

''The California Department of Transportation, better known as Caltrans, is overseeing the private project that would add a zero-emissions railway [my emphasis] from Victorville to Las Vegas as a connection between the entertainment hub and Los Angeles.''

A "zero emissions railway?" The only "zero emissions" railway is one that's been abandoned. Even electrified lines have emissions, as there are emissions from most of the common types of electrical generation, and as far as I know, Brightline is planning to run diesels on this line. Yeah, maybe the emissions per passenger mile are lower than several hundred single-occupancy cars, but there will still be emissions.

 

[jis]

A "zero emissions railway?" The only "zero emissions" railway is one that's been abandoned. Even electrified lines have emissions, as there are emissions from most of the common types of electrical generation, and as far as I know, Brightline is planning to run diesels on this line. Yeah, maybe the emissions per passenger mile are lower than several hundred single-occupancy cars, but there will still be emissions.

The Las Vegas Brightline West project is slated to be electrified since the planned speeds are infeasible using diesel traction.

 

[user 1215]

So, yes, there will be emissions, but at the power source, not off the train itself. Though, this could be powered by Hoover Dam, so could be emissions almost-free.

 

[joelkfla]

So, yes, there will be emissions, but at the power source, not off the train itself. Though, this could be powered by Hoover Dam, so could be emissions almost-free.

Or solar and/or wind. CA leads the nation in solar, with more than 3x the next nearest state, and NV is 6th. CA is also 6th in wind power.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brightline built their own solar farm to partially power the trains. Seems like the area they'll be traveling through would be a prime location.

 

[cirdan]

So, yes, there will be emissions, but at the power source, not off the train itself. Though, this could be powered by Hoover Dam, so could be emissions almost-free.

Buying electricity from an existing dam that is not being upgraded would only displace other customers and force them to buy from other sources. Thus it is not net zero emissions.

 

[leemell]

Or solar and/or wind. CA leads the nation in solar, with more than 3x the next nearest state, and NV is 6th. CA is also 6th in wind power.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brightline built their own solar farm to partially power the trains. Seems like the area they'll be traveling through would be a prime location.

CHSR is entirely renewable power, solar and wind. Brightline West will be the same.

 

[George Harris]

CHSR is entirely renewable power, solar and wind. Brightline West will be the same.

I suspect this is true only in the minds of certain dingbat politicians, with which California is well supplied.

 

[leemell]

CHSRA has designed and will build their own solar arrays and purchase only from renewable sources.

 

[neroden]

At this point solar and wind are simply cheaper than anything else. We still have issues with heavy construction; electric backhoes, bulldozers, etc. are perfectly *feasible* and would be cheaper to operate than the gasoline versions, but because these are such niche products made in such small quantities, manufacturers have been quite late to produce the electric versions; they usually start with the high-volume products.

 

[cirdan]

At this point solar and wind are simply cheaper than anything else. We still have issues with heavy construction; electric backhoes, bulldozers, etc. are perfectly *feasible* and would be cheaper to operate than the gasoline versions, but because these are such niche products made in such small quantities, manufacturers have been quite late to produce the electric versions; they usually start with the high-volume products.

this is changing . For example many mining companies are now going electric . Not just for environmental reasons but also because of ventilation . As the scale ramps up the prices will come down .

to me the bigger greenwash is mass buying green electricity without supporting additional capacity which is just displacing other consumers .

 

[neroden]

this is changing . For example many mining companies are now going electric . Not just for environmental reasons but also because of ventilation . As the scale ramps up the prices will come down .

to me the bigger greenwash is mass buying green electricity without supporting additional capacity which is just displacing other consumers .

Soooo, in most (if not all) of states which have a renewable energy portfolio requirement -- requiring utility companies to have a certain percentage of their electricity be renewables -- if I then buy renewable electricity by contract from a third party which isn't the utility, this *doesn't count* towards the utility's required-by-law renewable percentage, so they have to procure more renewables. That's how it works in NY, anyway.

At this point it's almost becoming irrelevant because the market forces are so strong that nearly every company is buying far more renewable energy than legally required, because it's cheaper than the alternatives.

 

[cirdan]

Another interesting Brightline West article.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenge...m_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=30467

 

[user 1215]

Another interesting Brightline West article.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenge...m_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=30467

I don't doubt that Brightline West can be operational before CHSR has any form of functionality. They just need to improve ride comfort if they are going to use electric derivatives of their East Coast cousins. Even Metrolink was more comfortable in 40-50 year old Bombardier Bi-Levels than Brightline Miami. (Metrolink Note: Those Hyundai Rotem cab cars are claustrophobic)

 

[MARC Rider]

Another interesting Brightline West article.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenge...m_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=30467

"25 daily round trips?" That's more than runs than in the Northeast Corridor, where they have 47 million people, and the train passes through at least 5 metro areas with populations of 1 million or more. This thing is going to run from a suburban transit hub passing through sparsely populated desert with the only large city directly served being Las Vegas. It will require a 2-seat ride from the densely populated parts of Los Angeles, which will probably depress ridership. It seems to me they'd be better off trying to make arrangements with Metrolink to run through trains.

 

[leemell]

I don't doubt that Brightline West can be operational before CHSR has any form of functionality. They just need to improve ride comfort if they are going to use electric derivatives of their East Coast cousins. Even Metrolink was more comfortable in 40-50 year old Bombardier Bi-Levels than Brightline Miami. (Metrolink Note: Those Hyundai Rotem cab cars are claustrophobic)

Brightline West has a contract with Siemens for 200MPH Velaros.

 

[leemell]

"25 daily round trips?" That's more than runs than in the Northeast Corridor, where they have 47 million people, and the train passes through at least 5 metro areas with populations of 1 million or more. This thing is going to run from a suburban transit hub passing through sparsely populated desert with the only large city directly served being Las Vegas. It will require a 2-seat ride from the densely populated parts of Los Angeles, which will probably depress ridership. It seems to me they'd be better off trying to make arrangements with Metrolink to run through trains.

50,000,000 one way trips a year between LA and LV. They are anticipating 11,000,000 on the train.

 

[joelkfla]

50,000,000 one way trips a year between LA and LV. They are anticipating 11,000,000 on the train.

Huh?

 

[leemell]

Huh?

50 million is the total. 85% is by car or bus.

 

[MARC Rider]

I suspect they’ll get it to Union Station sooner rather than later. But I think they’ll own the market. Rail always seems to be judged on a totally unrealistic inconvenience factor as if all the other modes are totally convenient. Let’s face it, air travel is a total pain. You have to get across town to the airport, get there early for security, flights are delayed and cancelled right and left. It’s terrible. Then there’s driving. It’s dangerous, it’s congested, there are trucks blocking traffic, it’s aggravating, and there are frequent delays. The bus takes away some of the dangers and hassles of driving, but it’s cramped, slow, and uncomfortable. Let’s judge the train against reality and not fantasy. The train wins hands down.

The sooner they can operate a one-seat ride directly into Union Station, the better off they'll be. The plan seems to require travelers to either take a 75-minute ride on a commuter train to reach their proposed terminal in Rancho Cucamonga, or drive at least an hour through the LA suburban sprawl to reach the station. And that drive is the worst part of the traffic.

 

[Alice]

The train isn't competing with buses, it is competing with planes. I just looked up flights from the LA area to Las Vegas between noon and 3pm today. 32 from LAX, 3 from Burbank, 1 from Long Beach, 1 from Santa Ana. That is quite a bit of demand, especially since I do not think it is the busiest part of the weekend. I haven't been following this train closely, but earlier incarnations were going to start the party when you boarded, an amenity that isn't such a good idea by plane or car.

 

[jis]

The train isn't competing with buses, it is competing with planes. I just looked up flights from the LA area to Las Vegas between noon and 3pm today. 32 from LAX, 3 from Burbank, 1 from Long Beach, 1 from Santa Ana. That is quite a bit of demand, especially since I do not think it is the busiest part of the weekend. I haven't been following this train closely, but earlier incarnations were going to start the party when you boarded, an amenity that isn't such a good idea by plane or car.

There will be no party on this one. It will be a comfortable and fast means of transportation.

I think you may be confusing this one with the other proposal called X-Train or something like that, which was intended to be a party train...

https://la.curbed.com/2015/8/11/9931670/los-angeles-las-vegas-party-train

 

[MARC Rider]

The train isn't competing with buses, it is competing with planes. I just looked up flights from the LA area to Las Vegas between noon and 3pm today. 32 from LAX, 3 from Burbank, 1 from Long Beach, 1 from Santa Ana. That is quite a bit of demand, especially since I do not think it is the busiest part of the weekend. I haven't been following this train closely, but earlier incarnations were going to start the party when you boarded, an amenity that isn't such a good idea by plane or car.

Oh, I think there's a market for the service, I'm just not sure about 25 round trips per day, which might be more than the Northeast Corridor, especially when the train doesn't even give you a one-seat ride into the city. I suspect when they start, they won't be doing 25 round trips per day.

 

[Alice]

There will be no party on this one. It will be a comfortable and fast means of transportation.

I think you may be confusing this one with the other proposal called X-Train or something like that, which was intended to be a party train...

https://la.curbed.com/2015/8/11/9931670/los-angeles-las-vegas-party-train

You are right, I'm mixing them up.