Brightline Trains West!

[NES28]

Construction of Brightline West should be pretty fast since structural elements are pretty limited (i.e. no major bridges).

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Construction of Brightline West should be pretty fast since structural elements are pretty limited (i.e. no major bridges).

Good point. Hopefully they can work on all the major sections simultaneously and get this rolling as fast as possible once the debt is raised.

 

[NES28]

They certainly did that with Brightline in Florida.

 

[GDRRiley]

A bit older news but this is a document brightline sent to the FRA. They plan on using Valero Novas not Valero Classics. 8000KW of power would make it seem like its the 360kmh/220mph version

.

 

[Anderson]

A bit older news but this is a document brightline sent to the FRA. They plan on using Valero Novas not Valero Classics. 8000KW of power would make it seem like its the 360kmh/220mph version

.

This makes me wonder - power consumption decisions aside, if they're going for the 220 MPH version, why not just file for that? Admittedly, tech developments over time can outrun some of these plans, so that's always a possibility here - and so is "under-promise and over-deliver"...but is there any real difference in what they'd need to do with the FRA?

 

[jis]

This makes me wonder - power consumption decisions aside, if they're going for the 220 MPH version, why not just file for that? Admittedly, tech developments over time can outrun some of these plans, so that's always a possibility here - and so is "under-promise and over-deliver"...but is there any real difference in what they'd need to do with the FRA?

Well they have to get the track and the train certified either way. So at least from the 30,000' level, no. But the details to be certified for higher speed will probably be more stringent.

 

[GDRRiley]

This makes me wonder - power consumption decisions aside, if they're going for the 220 MPH version, why not just file for that? Admittedly, tech developments over time can outrun some of these plans, so that's always a possibility here - and so is "under-promise and over-deliver"...but is there any real difference in what they'd need to do with the FRA?

they are already going to be all class 9 track unless sections of Cajon pass slow below 160mph then that could be 8.
Geometry could certainly be and issue along with number/length of sidings
I suspect the only place they'll go 220mph is on CASHR if they get a a track sharing thing worked out

 

[Touchdowntom9]

A bit older news but this is a document brightline sent to the FRA. They plan on using Valero Novas not Valero Classics. 8000KW of power would make it seem like its the 360kmh/220mph version

.

Hey, if they are spending billions on such a major project, thank god they are getting the newest possible rolling stock. Glad to see they are going all out here and not being complacent with older tech

I'm floored that so much work had to go into a deck just to request a door style that has been used in countless other European counties

they are already going to be all class 9 track unless sections of Cajon pass slow below 160mph then that could be 8.
Geometry could certainly be and issue along with number/length of sidings
I suspect the only place they'll go 220mph is on CASHR if they get a a track sharing thing worked out

Would you expect the track to have a wide range of speed restrictions or is it likely that it will be running at or very close to 160mph the entire time? I would almost prefer to run at a constant speed rather than briefly breaking 200 just to slow to 100 moments later (not a realistic comment but hopefully you get the gist).

 

[GDRRiley]

Hey, if they are spending billions on such a major project, thank god they are getting the newest possible rolling stock. Glad to see they are going all out here and not being complacent with older tech

because it has to be made in the US if they want fed money and Siemens is bidding on CASHR I was more surprised at the time when they didn't announce it was using a 220mph platform

I'm floored that so much work had to go into a deck just to request a door style that has been used in countless other European counties

the FRA is stuck decades behind in most cases

Would you expect the track to have a wide range of speed restrictions or is it likely that it will be running at or very close to 160mph the entire time? I would almost prefer to run at a constant speed rather than briefly breaking 200 just to slow to 100 moments later (not a realistic comment but hopefully you get the gist).

Cajon pass is going to be on the slower side because they don't have space for large curves and they are again pushing 4-4.5% grades.

re reading the FRA document it says 50 miles with an approximate 140mph top speed so that could be class 8 from RC to Apple valley

 

[Touchdowntom9]

because it has to be made in the US if they want fed money and Siemens is bidding on CASHR I was more surprised at the time when they didn't announce it was using a 220mph platform

the FRA is stuck decades behind in most cases

Cajon pass is going to be on the slower side because they don't have space for large curves and they are again pushing 4-4.5% grades.

re reading the FRA document it says 50 miles with an approximate 140mph top speed so that could be class 8 from RC to Apple valley

If the slowest parts of the BLW route are essentially equal to the fastest parts of the NEC, well then that would be incredible.

 

[GDRRiley]

If the slowest parts of the BLW route are essentially equal to the fastest parts of the NEC, well then that would be incredible.

Its what you'd expect from a new built line.
The S line improvments should deliver a 160mph railway once they put wires up and with tilting trains

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts on SEHSR have been moved from this thread to the SEHSR thread:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/sehsr-south-east-high-speed-rail-discussions.76832/
Please post any further SEHSR related posts to the SEHSR thread and restrict posts to this thread to its subject matter which is Brightline West.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

A bit older news but this is a document brightline sent to the FRA. They plan on using Valero Novas not Valero Classics. 8000KW of power would make it seem like its the 360kmh/220mph version

.

I was looking at the specs for the Velaro Novas on Siemen's website and these are going to be some really long trainsets. The 7 car trainsets that Brightline West will be getting is going to be 202 meters long, which equates to about 662 ft 8in long. About the same length as a 7 car ICE 4 train from Germany, albeit much faster. I saw lengths of each car being mentioned on Siemen's site as being 28.75 meters long which equates to 94 ft 3in long (I assume the driving cars at each end maybe slightly longer).

https://www.mobility.siemens.com/gl...h-speed-and-intercity-trains/velaro-novo.html

 

[GDRRiley]

I was looking at the specs for the Velaro Novas on Siemen's website and these are going to be some really long trainsets. The 7 car trainsets that Brightline West will be getting is going to be 202 meters long, which equates to about 662 ft 8in long. About the same length as a 7 car ICE 4 train from Germany, albeit much faster. I saw lengths of each car being mentioned on Siemen's site as being 28.75 meters long which equates to 94 ft 3in long (I assume the driving cars at each end maybe slightly longer).

https://www.mobility.siemens.com/gl...h-speed-and-intercity-trains/velaro-novo.html

200m is the standard length for a high speed trainset. Car lengths are up this generation to reduce the number of bogies
It will be intresting to see if California buys any 400m trainsets or if they are all 200m and get coupled when needed

 

[Caesar La Rock]

200m is the standard length for a high speed trainset. Car lengths are up this generation to reduce the number of bogies
It will be intresting to see if California buys any 400m trainsets or if they are all 200m and get coupled when needed

I agree, California is going to be an interesting order as I wonder if they'll go for the Novas as well or get the classic version of the Velaros? One thing I should point out, China Railways has a 10ft 8 1/2 inch wide version of the classic Velaros, so a wider version of those trains can be ordered. I think for startup operations, they'll get 200m sets first.

 

[GDRRiley]

I agree, California is going to be an interesting order as I wonder if they'll go for the Novas as well or get the classic version of the Velaros? One thing I should point out, China Railways has a 10ft 8 1/2 inch wide version of the classic Velaros, so a wider version of those trains can be ordered. I think for startup operations, they'll get 200m sets first.

Novas if they get picked. No reason to not go for the latest. Siemens will already be building them in the US for brightline.
These are 10ft10in wide already, the first ones will be 200m there is 6-8 planned. Not sure if brightline has said how many sets they expect to need now and into the future

 

[Mailliw]

Is Brightline West actually ordering 7 car trainsets? The configuration in the FRA document looks like it's just Siemens sample configuration. I'd be surprised if Brightline went with both a cafe car and a 3 class setup with lie-flat seats.

 

[Anderson]

Is Brightline West actually ordering 7 car trainsets? The configuration in the FRA document looks like it's just Siemens sample configuration. I'd be surprised if Brightline went with both a cafe car and a 3 class setup with lie-flat seats.

I would be a bit surprised, but it's possible? The best justification would be if they plan to offer that third class partly in conjunction with some casinos for high rollers, which might make some sense in the event that they extend all the way into LA (where the runtime might hit or exceed three hours, with a lot of endpoint business).

 

[Septa9739]

I would think you’d almost have to go with seven car sets just to have any hope of profitability. Otherwise, they could hit the Amtrak LD problem where a sold out train really struggles to break even. (Well that and wonky accounting.) I also pause at the 12,000,000. That would be about that of the whole NEC, just a slightly ambitious goal.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Is Brightline West actually ordering 7 car trainsets? The configuration in the FRA document looks like it's just Siemens sample configuration. I'd be surprised if Brightline went with both a cafe car and a 3 class setup with lie-flat seats.

Unless Brightline West has a change of heart, that's the available configuration with the Velaro Novas as presented by Siemens themselves. Either a 7 or 14 car set that train is available as per Siemens. They're basically an updated, lighter, and much faster version of a German ICE 4 train.

 

[cirdan]

Unless Brightline West has a change of heart, that's the available configuration with the Velaro Novas as presented by Siemens themselves. Either a 7 or 14 car set that train is available as per Siemens. They're basically an updated, lighter, and much faster version of a German ICE 4 train.

My understanding is that the 7 car configuration is just an example of what can be done, maybe tailored with a specific customer use case in mind. With distributed traction systems and equipment you can probably order anything from a 3 car set to a 20 car set and it would only take relatively minor tweaks to be made feasible.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

My understanding is that the 7 car configuration is just an example of what can be done, maybe tailored with a specific customer use case in mind. With distributed traction systems and equipment you can probably order anything from a 3 car set to a 20 car set and it would only take relatively minor tweaks to be made feasible.

That is very true. I'm just going by what Brightline West has indicated they wanted, but yes trains of those sizes can be ordered. Granted, it would be really odd to see a three car train capable of doing 200+mph unless it's a test set lol.

 

[Willbridge]

My understanding is that the 7 car configuration is just an example of what can be done, maybe tailored with a specific customer use case in mind. With distributed traction systems and equipment you can probably order anything from a 3 car set to a 20 car set and it would only take relatively minor tweaks to be made feasible.

There might be a software limit in the traction system regarding how many units it can control.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

There might be a software limit in the traction system regarding how many units it can control.

For high speed trainsets, 2 seems to be the usual number, although China Railways and Eurocity that operates international trains from England to cities in Europe using 16 car trainsets. Most railways in Europe, the max amount of trainsets controlled by the driver (what they call the engineer over there) is about 3 or 4 units.

Never seen much more then that other then in England and the Netherlands, where I've seen videos, pictures, and even have pictures I've purchased myself of trains made up of up to five multiple units in one train. Of course that was with older multiple units, as newer trains over there seem to be with the standard of many European railroads of having either a long trainset, or 2-3 shorter trainsets to form a service.

 

[GDRRiley]

My understanding is that the 7 car configuration is just an example of what can be done, maybe tailored with a specific customer use case in mind. With distributed traction systems and equipment you can probably order anything from a 3 car set to a 20 car set and it would only take relatively minor tweaks to be made feasible.

the 7 car set is 202m, they lengthend each car which is why its down from 8 for a 200m set