broken ticket scanner

[jphjaxfl]

We've had this discussion a number of times in the past and while I agree it would be great to be able to print tickets at home, office, hotel, etc, Amtrak has no way to verify the validity of that ticket when you board, especially from un-staffed stations. Airports validate just as you board the plane.
Can you image the hassle for the conductor staff if they had to call in for every ticket that was pre-printed and confirm it wasn't a fake/duplicate? When they can overcome that obstacle then it could become a reality.

Quite a few railways in Europe offer printing at home options, e-ticketing or even a ticket as phone text message sent in the form of a barcode.

It's obviously not that difficult to achieve if you want to.

I don't disagree, Neil - but Amtrak simply doesn't have the equipment available on the trains to handle this other than as they now do.

When people print their own tickets in Europe and then board the train with that ticket what type of system is used to ensure it is a valid ticket (as airports do when you board and they scan the printed pass into the system)?

The conductors have hand held scanners that scan the bar codes to verify that the ticket is legitimate. Since Amtrak can swipe credit cards for meals in the dining car, the technology to scan bar codes on tickets should not be that difficult. It would also save a lot of the paperwork that conductors have to do as all the information would be electonically scanned into the system at each station as passengers board and have their tickets scanned. It would likely be less expensive for Amtrak to administer over the long term once the initial equipment is acquired.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I don't understand the drive for e-ticketing - is it really that hard to maintain the responsibility for obtaining and keeping track of tickets?

It's all about customer/user friendliness and giving them the choice.

E- ticketing has made air travel a lot easier, those old paper tickets are a relic from the olden days.

If the passenger books the ticket on the internet, why can he not print out a ticket at home if he chooses and just turn up at the station and board, rather than queue up at a booking office window or hope the Quiktrak machine hasn't had an off day?

Amtrak's ticketing procedures seem to just suit Amtrak. Bit daft really, issuing a large paper ticket to you, then minutes later taking 90% of it off you again.

Not to mention the cost to Amtrak of administering paper tickets. Airlines have saved a bundle with electronic ticketing and travelers like it.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

A lot of things seem wrong with this. In my years as an Amtrak traveller, I have yet to find a conductor who is not willing to work with the polite, claimed to be reserved, but unticketed passenger. The most typical response is to board, "But you have to get off at the next station with any kind if ticket printing facilities to print your tickets."

I can't help but think that what the poster is not telling us is that her son probably did not fit my above description. If her son started belligerent or quickly turned belligerent, this would be a response I could see.

And lastly, let me tell you that I agree with Rnizlek. I do not travel on Amtrak without a few hundred dollars either in my wallet or a moneybelt, and I never travel anywhere without at LEAST $2500 worth of credit. I don't like carrying that kind of cash on me, but the fact of the matter is, I never know what's going to happen. I get off the train at some podunk town and get left behind, for example. That's my fault right there. But I still need to get home. A taxi to a place where I can buy a bus, plane, or train ticket is the minimum I need.

Even when I was a wee kid travelling alone, my dad never let me go anywhere without his Amex card and a note instructing whomever I give it to help me get home as well as authorizing purchases on his card by me for this explicit purpose.

Honestly, you should always have atleast one creditcard with a high limit that you keep in your wallet, and only use in the event you need to spend a lot of money, right now, or you are screwed. I'd honestly and truly say that is a cardinal rule of travel. By Amtrak or any other way.

 

[printman2000]

The conductors have hand held scanners that scan the bar codes to verify that the ticket is legitimate. Since Amtrak can swipe credit cards for meals in the dining car, the technology to scan bar codes on tickets should not be that difficult. It would also save a lot of the paperwork that conductors have to do as all the information would be electonically scanned into the system at each station as passengers board and have their tickets scanned. It would likely be less expensive for Amtrak to administer over the long term once the initial equipment is acquired.

Seems I recall that with the credit card system, it cannot always make a connection and stores the information until it does. Seems I also recall it is based on cell phone towers.

A handheld scanner to check the validity of an e-tickets just would not work. It would take too long to dial in and check each and every ticket. Not to mention all of the areas not covered by cell phone towers.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Some of the post have caused me to consider that the machine was not broken, but in the printing and getting the barcode paper to his son, something may not printed correctly to be read. This my also explain the conductor not accepting it thinking it was a false barcode. For example how did the son get his copy, was it faxed? Or was it folded through the barcode making it unreadable? Just 2 thoughts.

 

[pebbleworm]

Paper tickets really are a holdover from the 20th century- my guess is Amtrak still uses them because they can't afford to upgrade their equipment. I print out airline boarding passes at home all the time. I just had a ridiculous experience with an Amtrak reservation. I booked a ticket that I may very well have to change, and HAD to have the paper tickets mailed to me. The usual option of picking them up at the station would not work because the agent was sick. No human at the station to print out a ticket, no ticket machine at the station, and no staffed station within 50 miles. No replacement agent available, no idea when the station would be manned again, and no spare ticket machine that could be set up even temporarily at the station. If I do have to change the ticket, I'll have to accept the $60.00/10% change fee as the price of a story. And now I'm worried that If I do have to change the reservation, the new paper tickets won't arrive on time.

 

[Neil_M]

The conductors have hand held scanners that scan the bar codes to verify that the ticket is legitimate. Since Amtrak can swipe credit cards for meals in the dining car, the technology to scan bar codes on tickets should not be that difficult. It would also save a lot of the paperwork that conductors have to do as all the information would be electonically scanned into the system at each station as passengers board and have their tickets scanned. It would likely be less expensive for Amtrak to administer over the long term once the initial equipment is acquired.

Seems I recall that with the credit card system, it cannot always make a connection and stores the information until it does. Seems I also recall it is based on cell phone towers.

A handheld scanner to check the validity of an e-tickets just would not work. It would take too long to dial in and check each and every ticket. Not to mention all of the areas not covered by cell phone towers.

Maybe the LD trains would be more of a challenge although the lower passenger numbers might be easier to work with and possibly you could 'top up' the on board ticket equipment whenever the train reaches "civilization".

However, surely Acela and the NE Regionals should be an ideal candidate to launch any such system.

 

[Ispolkom]

The conductors have hand held scanners that scan the bar codes to verify that the ticket is legitimate. Since Amtrak can swipe credit cards for meals in the dining car, the technology to scan bar codes on tickets should not be that difficult. It would also save a lot of the paperwork that conductors have to do as all the information would be electonically scanned into the system at each station as passengers board and have their tickets scanned. It would likely be less expensive for Amtrak to administer over the long term once the initial equipment is acquired.

Seems I recall that with the credit card system, it cannot always make a connection and stores the information until it does. Seems I also recall it is based on cell phone towers.

A handheld scanner to check the validity of an e-tickets just would not work. It would take too long to dial in and check each and every ticket. Not to mention all of the areas not covered by cell phone towers.

Maybe the LD trains would be more of a challenge although the lower passenger numbers might be easier to work with and possibly you could 'top up' the on board ticket equipment whenever the train reaches "civilization".

However, surely Acela and the NE Regionals should be an ideal candidate to launch any such system.

Especially since the German system (if I read the article correctly) is an off-line one, where the scanner confirms the ticket with the passenger's ID or credit card, and data is later downloaded. One problem the article's writers seem oddly complacent about is fraud. Perhaps German railroad passengers are an honest lot.

 

[jackal]

Rest assured Amtrak IS working on an e-ticketing system. I don't know when it will be in play, but they have an active group working on implementing a system. Yes, there are technical challenges to overcome (it's not all rosy as some here say it should be), but they are not impossible to deal with (as some others here insinuate).

 

[Neil_M]

One problem the article's writers seem oddly complacent about is fraud. Perhaps German railroad passengers are an honest lot.

I take it you have not seen a German rail undercover ticket checking squad in action? You wouldn't even think about trying to travel without a Fahrkarten! :lol: :lol:

 

[wayman]

One problem the article's writers seem oddly complacent about is fraud. Perhaps German railroad passengers are an honest lot.

I take it you have not seen a German rail undercover ticket checking squad in action? You wouldn't even think about trying to travel without a Fahrkarten! :lol: :lol:

In the Netherlands, it's very simple. On many of the rural trains and on almost all city buses and streetcars in the country, there's no regular conductor. Maybe one time in twenty, an inspector boards and checks everyone's ticket. And, just tossing numbers out for example, if you don't have a $5 ticket, you get a $500 fine. It's an enormous fine, and the inspections are just frequent enough that it's never to your advantage to "game the system", such that nobody ever dares take the risk. But it saves a lot of money, and keeps fares lower for all passengers as a result, to not have to pay full-time conductors for every train, bus, and streetcar!

 

[Ispolkom]

One problem the article's writers seem oddly complacent about is fraud. Perhaps German railroad passengers are an honest lot.

I take it you have not seen a German rail undercover ticket checking squad in action? You wouldn't even think about trying to travel without a Fahrkarten! :lol: :lol:

My blood runs cold. I did get nailed once by a Moscow metro ticket inspector, but that was pretty indistinguishable from any other shakedown. On our local light-rail the inspectors always seem to be armed transit cops.

 

[Tony]

I am confused. :huh:

I thought one was allowed to board the train with only a valid reservation number, if one was boarding from an unstaffed station. From what I read here, the station his kid was at, was indeed unstaffed.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Some of the post have caused me to consider that the machine was not broken, but in the printing and getting the barcode paper to his son, something may not printed correctly to be read. This my also explain the conductor not accepting it thinking it was a false barcode. For example how did the son get his copy, was it faxed? Or was it folded through the barcode making it unreadable? Just 2 thoughts.

Did it even have a barcode?

What condition was the paper?

Conductors tend to be reasonable people. Something must have triggered the conductor to act the way he did.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

One problem the article's writers seem oddly complacent about is fraud. Perhaps German railroad passengers are an honest lot.

I take it you have not seen a German rail undercover ticket checking squad in action? You wouldn't even think about trying to travel without a Fahrkarten! :lol: :lol:

I experienced a team on the Berlin U-Bahn. Two undercover males who entered the car, flashed their badges and quickly but politely checked everyone's tickets/passes. I never saw billfolds and purses fly open so fast in my life.

 

[AlanB]

The conductors have hand held scanners that scan the bar codes to verify that the ticket is legitimate. Since Amtrak can swipe credit cards for meals in the dining car, the technology to scan bar codes on tickets should not be that difficult. It would also save a lot of the paperwork that conductors have to do as all the information would be electonically scanned into the system at each station as passengers board and have their tickets scanned. It would likely be less expensive for Amtrak to administer over the long term once the initial equipment is acquired.

Seems I recall that with the credit card system, it cannot always make a connection and stores the information until it does. Seems I also recall it is based on cell phone towers.

A handheld scanner to check the validity of an e-tickets just would not work. It would take too long to dial in and check each and every ticket. Not to mention all of the areas not covered by cell phone towers.

The system wouldn't work that way. The handheld scanner will in effect be loaded up with the valid barcodes for that train prior to departure and whenever and where ever possible, the entire onboard system will remain in touch with Amtrak's main computer system constantly updating the handhelds. So unless someone buys a last minute ticket, something you really can't do anyhow since there is a 1 hour minimum and the system remains off line during that entire hour, you wouldn't have a situation where the scanner would encounter a barcode that it didn't already know about.

Even then, it is possible to encode considerable info into a barcode, such that a hand held scanner would know immediately if someone had just manufactured a barcode. That would enable the scanner to alert the conductor that the barcode is totally invalid or that it just doesn't know about that particular e-ticket and that the conductor should somehow flag that passenger in case it later turns out that the ticket is invalid.

 

[transit54]

Aloha
Some of the post have caused me to consider that the machine was not broken, but in the printing and getting the barcode paper to his son, something may not printed correctly to be read. This my also explain the conductor not accepting it thinking it was a false barcode. For example how did the son get his copy, was it faxed? Or was it folded through the barcode making it unreadable? Just 2 thoughts.

Exactly why I asked what I did in my post on the first page. This is what I suspect also. The thought of two, relatively new QT machines being simultaneously down doesn't make a lot of sense. Plus, if that were the case, there would almost undoubtedly be other passengers in the same boat (as there were when I ran into my problem in CRT) and they would have backed up the situation.

Here's what I bet happened:

1) Pax arrives at BRP, tries to scan barcode.

2) Barcode does not scan due to one of many other reasons

3) Pax assumes they can just bring the paper on board the train

4) Pax moves to the platform area and waits for the train.

What should have happened between steps 2 and 3 is that the passenger should have tried entering the reservation number into the QT machine. I've done this before (on a new QT machine) and it works perfectly. I'd never really rely on a barcode - when I worked in the airline industry, a good 40-50% of barcodes didn't scan on our kiosks. The solution was just to input the reservation number, but I can't tell you how many people gave up after their code didn't scan (or tried futilely to get it to scan for a while instead of tapping on the screen and entering their reservation number).

Another thing I've learned in traveling is never assume anything. If I couldn't get my ticket to print and didn't know what to do (as was the case when I was in CRT), I'd call Amtrak to get help. If I didn't have enough time to call them because my train was approaching, well, I should have gotten to the station earlier. In any event, when you travel, come prepared for everything and have options. When I worked in the airlines, I worked with people all day who ran afoul of something because they didn't come prepared or because they made assumptions.

I can't comment on the customer service situation of this issue, because I wasn't there. So much of customer service involves the exact words used, the tone of voice, etc. Is it possible that the conductor provided poor customer service? Absolutely. But don't fault him because he was following Amtrak policy which is clearly spelled out on their website. If the original poster has an issue with how her son was treated, by all means contact Amtrak for extra compensation and with a complaint. But if the complaint is Amtrak's policy, well, sorry, that's paper ticketing for you. The same thing happens whether it be at a train, a bus or a sporting venue. A ticket is like cash - if you don't have it, regardless of who's fault it was, you don't have it and need to buy another one. Should the original poster get a refund on her son's original ticket (or, if the QTs were actually broken, the higher priced ticket)? Absolutely.

 

[amamba]

I have also printed tickets from a QT machine by just entering my reservation confirmation code into the system. If the barcode wouldn't scan, the pax could have easily just typed it in. I am assuming that the piece of paper with the barcode must have also had the confirmation code on it.

 

[zephyr17]

I have also printed tickets from a QT machine by just entering my reservation confirmation code into the system. If the barcode wouldn't scan, the pax could have easily just typed it in. I am assuming that the piece of paper with the barcode must have also had the confirmation code on it.

The confirmations from Amtrak.com have the confirmation code clearly printed on them in addition to the bar code.

 

[RRrich]

Without REALLY knowing anything that everyone else doesn't know, I just suspect that the young man passed the barcode under the scanner and when it didn't work for whatever reason, he said "Well I did my part, let them fix it" Then I suspect he mouthed off to the conductor.

I don't know anything that happened, but I have spent 20 years teaching youngsters in the City of St Louis High Schools and I think I some knowledge of kids.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Without REALLY knowing anything that everyone else doesn't know, I just suspect that the young man passed the barcode under the scanner and when it didn't work for whatever reason, he said "Well I did my part, let them fix it" Then I suspect he mouthed off to the conductor.
I don't know anything that happened, but I have spent 20 years teaching youngsters in the City of St Louis High Schools and I think I some knowledge of kids.

Agreed.

 

[PRR 60]

Just for the record, Amtrak, in this case, treated the passenger properly. The OP's son only had the reservation confirmation. That conformation clearly states that it is not good for travel. It must be converted to a ticket for travel. When he tried to board the train with only the confirmation, he was properly denied travel. The conductor had no way of knowing if a ticket had been issued and was being used by someone else, or if the confirmation was even legit. The conductor was correct in his (or her) actions, and to do otherwise would be a rules violation. Try boarding a plane or even getting through security with only a printed confirmation. Yes, you can print airline boarding passes ahead of time, but Amtrak does not have that (yet). You have to plan accordingly.

The problem is that the passenger was unable to get a proper ticket before boarding. With two QuikTrak's and an agent at Bridgeport, my only thought is that the passenger showed up at the station without enough time to handle a glitch. When the QT would not cooperate, and perhaps with little time before train departure, the passenger took a chance that the confirmation would be good enough. It isn't.

By the way, I would not jump to the conclusion that the individual "mouthed-off" to anyone. Nothing in the event suggests that. No matter how polite the passenger was, the conductor had no choice. No ticket. No travel.

 

[AlanB]

The problem is that the passenger was unable to get a proper ticket before boarding. With two QuikTrak's and an agent at Bridgeport, my only thought is that the passenger showed up at the station without enough time to handle a glitch.

There are no Amtrak ticket agents in Bridgeport. As far as Amtrak is concerned, that is an unstaffed station. It only offers the Quik-Trak option.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

There are no Amtrak ticket agents in Bridgeport. As far as Amtrak is concerned, that is an unstaffed station. It only offers the Quik-Trak option.

I thought one could board a train with only a reservation number, when boarding at an unstaffed station, no? While I had a ticket, I remember others doing just that at WRJ.

 

[MrFSS]

There are no Amtrak ticket agents in Bridgeport. As far as Amtrak is concerned, that is an unstaffed station. It only offers the Quik-Trak option.

I thought one could board a train with only a reservation number, when boarding at an unstaffed station, no? While I had a ticket, I remember others doing just that at WRJ.

Probably only if there is no ticket machine in the station, though.