Business Class - Let It Go

[Amfleet]

Ever since I have started riding Amtrak, especially in the Northeast, I have never found the big deal on Business Class. It cost around $50 above the rail-fare and all you get is a little more leg room, curtains, foot rest (most of them I can't even get to work), and a free drink. I have also been reading reports where ex-Club and Metroliner cars are being distributed about the Coach section of the train and Business Class, at some points, getting a standard coach. The following quote came from a trip report written by Dan Chazin. The trip was taken in November 2002:

Today's Train #192 consists a mish-mash of various types of Amfleet and Acela equipment. Pulled by AEM-7 engine #912, it includes three unreconditioned 84-seat Amfleet I coaches, two Acela Coachclass cars, two 60-seat Metroliner cars, my Club/Custom Class car, and a café car with coach seating on both sides of the service counter. The café service counter in my car was not used, and the first car on the train - an Acela Coachclass car - was used for Business Class!

WHAT A RIP OFF!!!

Your thoughts. Get rid of it or keep it??

 

[jccollins]

My thoughts: give business class customers what they pay for all the time and every time. A standard coach used for the business class is unacceptable - passengers who purchased business class and are forced to ride in regular coach should receive a refund for the difference, even if some of the other services are provided. Curtains should be standard on all windows in all cars. These should not be considered a premium for business class only. I like the business class concept, but in reality, in needs its own reform - like a few things at Amtrak do. Business class should be kept around. The very term itself can be useful in attracting business travelers to take the train for a change.

 

[AlanB]

As some of you know, I can most often be found in first class if it exists on the train. However, where FC is not available I do usually travel in BC. I do agree with JCCollins though, it needs to be a step above the normal coach seat. It also needs to have a uniform set of amenities throughout Amtrak, even if that means calling the BC on Acela Express trains something else

Even airlines offer a choice of coach and either First Class or some type of Business class. Passengers want choices, and some of us don't mind paying extra for a few amenities. However Amtrak needs to always provide those amenities, substitutes are not acceptable. Plus those amenities should be uniform throughout Amtrak.

 

[tp49]

There is talk about instituting Business Class on the Capital Corridor much as they have on the Surfliners in Southern California. I am not opposed to the idea of business class and there are times where I would be willing to pay more for that type of service. I also agree with JC that if you are going to charge for Business/First class service that they should have cars for the purpose and not use regular coaches, and there should be uniformity of ammenities.

 

[Steve4031]

BC is not worth the extra charge on midwest trains either. It was no big deal on the surfliner between San Diego and LA. Except, on this route BC guaranteed a reserved seat on a standing room only train on the day that I rode.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

All I can do is echo some thoughts already presented. I would say business class is worthwhile and worth a small extra change but only if the concept is maintained and consistent everywhere.

It is a kind of relief to know you are hopefully not going to have to fight the madness of coaches, esp. say, on the N.E. corrider.

 

[battalion51]

I think they should try Business Class Cars on the Silver Meteor and Star. If we were to use the Metroliner FC cars I think it'd be a booming idea. More room to spread out, drinks and possibly access to food in the lounge. What do you think?

 

[AlanB]

I think they should try Business Class Cars on the Silver Meteor and Star. If we were to use the Metroliner FC cars I think it'd be a booming idea. More room to spread out, drinks and possibly access to food in the lounge. What do you think?

I agree that they probably should try that on the rest of the Silver Service trains. I suspect that there would be people willing to pay extra for some more comfort, even if they don't get a sleeper. Charge an extra $50 to $75 bucks more, depending on distance traveled.

I do think that they should use a refurbished ex-Metroliner First Class car. What I would do though, is to only sell out the back half of the car to BC passengers. I would then leave the front half of the car as a quasi first class lounge for sleeping car passengers.

Then you can serve sodas, tea, & coffee at the service counter. I would also say that BC passengers should either get free meals in the diner or at least discounted meals.

 

[Viewliner]

I completely agree with Alan, but then maybe it should be a Dinette style car (with metroliner comfort) otherwise you might as well use those seats for revenue. I think the Palmetto should go with that, plus regain its Sleepers and Diner ASAP.

 

[AlanB]

Viewliner,

See the nice thing about the ex-Metroliner FC cars, is the 2 & 1 seating pattern. That makes for a more comfortable BC car, especially with the foot rest and calf rest.

You could either then decide whether to put in tables in the front half, leave the current seats for FC passengers, or come up with some other seating arrangement.

 

[Viewliner]

I know, thats what I meant, Making 1/2 the car Table Seating and the Other half 2-1 Seating for BC. Or, even if they just made the seats in one half conference tables like AE.

 

[battalion51]

Well the calf and leg rests are a must on long distance service since regular Coachclass has them. The 2-1 seating arrangement is my key point. I personally would set the train up like this:

Motive(s)

Mail/Baggage

Crew Dorm

Sleepers

Business Class

Diner

Lounge

Coachclass

This gives a few advantages, it makes it so Coach passengers do not walk through BC to get to where they are going, and don't have to go long distances to reach the lounge/diner. There is another very important feature this gives, the dual vestibules. If you look at the way the trains are set up Vestibule-wise sleepers run vestibule forward, while coaches run vestibule on the bottom (lounge can go either way preferably B-end forward so Dining car staff has stairs to unload their garbage. Now with the dual vestibuled BC cars the 10 Car can use the forward vestibule to load its standard rooms so they don't have to walk around the deluxe rooms. In addition to this the dining car staff can use the rear vestibule to unload its garbage and whatnot. This allows the lounge to run the vestibule on the bottom creating a vestibule between all cars except the dining/lounge, making for easier evacuations should they be necessary.

 

[Steve4031]

I never did like those singe seats on those cars. They are too far away from the window, and the window is too high up. It is hard to look down and check out junctions, and or sidings. So I would probably just go coach so I could get an amfleet II with the larger windows.

 

[battalion51]

One thing I would love to investigate if they were put into BC service is if larger picture windows could be cut out, a little bigger than those of an Amfleet II.

 

[AlanB]

Well the calf and leg rests are a must on long distance service since regular Coachclass has them. The 2-1 seating arrangement is my key point. I personally would set the train up like this:

While I have to admit that I've never actually sat in an Amfleet II car, I've never noticed a calf rest when I've walked through the cars. All I've ever seen is a foot rest.

Are there really calf rests in Amfleet II's? :unsure:

 

[Amfleet]

The response and ideas have been very interesting. I agree to make business class worth the amenities need to be added. How about a regular Amfleet I (non-food service) with 2-1 seating, foot rest, and leg rest. There is something I would pay for.

I woulld like to see a "Business Class" service on the Silver Service trains, but I think demand would be so great that 18 seats won't be enough.

Alan, there are calf/leg rests in Amfleet II Coaches (at least the referbishments). However, I tried them out and were not as great as a Superliner.

 

[AlanB]

I never did like those singe seats on those cars.  They are too far away from the window, and the window is too high up.  It is hard to look down and check out junctions, and or sidings.  So I would probably just go coach so I could get an amfleet II with the larger windows.

Steve,

Are we talking about the same cars? :unsure:

All the Metroliner FC cars that I've ever been in had the single seat right next to the window. Plus while I have to admit the windows are not as large as say the Acela's, they aren't that bad.

 

[AlanB]

Alan, there are calf/leg rests in Amfleet II Coaches (at least the referbishments). However, I tried them out and were not as great as a Superliner.

Amfleet,

When I say calf rest, I'm not talking about the footrest on the back of the chair ahead of you. I'm referring to a nicely padded piece that pulls up from the bottom of your own seat, much like a recliner would have.

Are we indeed talking about the same thing? I don't doubt you, but I've never noticed them while I've walked through either Amfleet II's or Superliners. Again as I've already admitted, I'm a coach novice. While I could probably have logged far more Amtrak miles by riding in coach, I always opt for the sleeper.

 

[express]

Yeah, they have leg (calf) rests.

I actually took a trip with a friend new to Amtrak long distance several years ago, and he didn't notice them until several hours into the trip, when I pointed them out.

 

[Amfleet]

Yes, the calf rests (not the foot rest that is attached to the seat in front of you) are on every seat in an Amfleet II and Superliner coaches. They swing up and then with a black nob on the arm rest you can retract it. That would be a rough ride not being able to put your feet up for over 24 hours. B)

 

[AlanB]

Yes, the calf rests (not the foot rest that is attached to the seat in front of you) are on every seat in an Amfleet II and Superliner coaches. They swing up and then with a black nob on the arm rest you can retract it. That would be a rough ride not being able to put your feet up for over 24 hours. B)

Cool, B) I never really noticed them before. Of course I wasn't actually looking for them either.

Sadly, they are one of the few things that I feel is lacking in the FC cars on Acela.

 

[Amfleet]

Look bottom center if the photo, see that pink thing hanging down. That's the calf rest. The ones on a Superliner I are blue, in an unrefurbed Amfleet II they are probably red, and a referbed Amfleet II blue.

 

[Amfleet]

Sadly,  they are one of the few things that I feel is lacking in the FC cars on Acela.

Well I would think with all the facing pairs of seats, calf rests would not work?

 

[AlanB]

Sadly,  they are one of the few things that I feel is lacking in the FC cars on Acela.

Well I would think with all the facing pairs of seats, calf rests would not work?

That's probably true, but that's no excuse for not installing calf rests on the remaining seats. The seats that are back to back don't have tray tables, so apparently one can vary what's attached to the seats.

 

[Steve4031]

[Steve,

Are we talking about the same cars? :unsure:

All the Metroliner FC cars that I've ever been in had the single seat right next to the window. Plus while I have to admit the windows are not as large as say the Acela's, they aren't that bad.

In 95 or 96, I rode first class on a train designated as metroliner in the timetable. The train had an electric engines, and maybe 6 amfleet cars. the the first class section was on the rear car. There was 2 and 1 seating on both sides of the snack counter. The seats were a solid red color. I suspect these are the same cars that you guys are talking about.

The window size maybe a matter of preference. However, I like to lean right next to the window and look down at the tracks , especially on the corridor when we are going 120 mph. That seating configuration made this process difficult for me, so I edge out onto the platform later in the trip.