Capitol Limited & Lake Shore Limited Delays Summer/Fall 2014

[Barciur]

For this saturday? It shows up for me...

 

[afigg]

What's up with 49 today? Not even bothering with having it leave NYP?

Both #29 and #49 (10/8) are shown on Amtrak Track-a-Train enroute to Toledo. They are listed as in Service Disruption which often results in the train data not showing up on Amtrak Status Maps, even the train is running part of the route.

 

[afigg]

For this saturday? It shows up for me...

At the moment, ALB-CHI sales are blocked out for Thursday, but are available for Friday Oct. 11. In the other direction, CHI-ALB sales are blocked on Friday, but are available on Saturday. So it appears they plan to let westbound #29 and #49 go through to Chicago on Saturday morning, then turn around and come back on Saturday night.
If NS really has cleared up the route or at least made it better, perhaps Amtrak will change its plan and let the westbound trains through on Thursday. But after the terrible delays of last week and weekend, it would be understandable if Amtrak wants to be sure that the trains are not going to be delayed 6 hours going from TOL to CHI.

 

[richm49]

I guess from a personal perspective it looks like this:

If I get bussed both ways, I expect a nice compensation. So it'll be a good trip as it'll be a lot cheaper, but also less quality. I don't want to do 5 hours on a bus, but I will if that means geting to Chicago say at 1pm, rather than 7pm.

If I don't and I get delayed, at least I'll have the roomette to be in - so it won't be as bad as being delayed in coach. And on the way back if I have to be sent to WAS to be eventually put to Lancaster, then once again - at least it'll be in a roomette.

So I can't lose. Just exciting to follow all of this.

Getting a nice compensation from Amtrak may be fine financially but who really wants to leave CHI on a bus at 9:30 P.M ( the scheduled departure time for 48/LSL) and ride 5-6 hours in the middle of night to board a train in TOL in wee hours of the morning? I sure as hell do not want to do that. I will be avoiding this entire IN-OH freight rail delay mess and re-route my entire return trip from Arizona down to the Southern route via 2/SL and then 20/Crescent direct to NYP instead of my original route 4/SWC and 48/LSL. It will cost a few bucks extra and will require overnight in NOL on my dime but I will at least avoid this whole freight delay and bus mess by staying as far away from CHI as I can.

Of course it all depends on who you are and what the purpose of your trip is etc. If I'm travelling with my mom or someone I know to connect to a westbound train or if I have to be back on time somewhere, I am totally with you. If I'm 10 years older than I am now and don't care for those kinds of adventures, I am totally with you.

If I'm me in my current situation, though, where I have an extra day off at work to fall back on and I'm in this primarily for an adventure, I'll just chalk it down as an abnormal adventure, grit my teeth through the bus ride and make the most out of the the trip. And come back when things are better. I've gotten used to crappy connections and uncomfortable trips with my 24 hour door-to-door trips across the atlantic

In short - I don't want to do it, but it won't be as bad as it will be for most people. Still, sounds like it **might** become irrelevant, because:

According to someone on Train Orders, things are happening in Chicago:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3543711

That sounds great. Here's hoping!

Call me skeptical but I will believe it when I start to see 29/30 and 48/49 running into and out of CHI anywhere even close to being on time! Until then, I am still staying far away from this mess.I just read some of the postings on train orders.com from pax who were actually on these trains cut short at TOL. To say the least it was a total clusterf**k by Amtrak personnel who could not get things right when it came to loading the right people onto the right buses. One pax had to get on and off three different buses,including moving baggage back and forth before finally heading to the proper destination. I have no desire to let that happen to me despite the supposed "good news".

 

[Barciur]

That's totally fair and I completely understand everyone who is doing it. It might sound masochistic. I'm just hauling a small backpack with me, a pen and a notebook and I will be noting everything down for how my trip goes in a few weeks. You'll be able to read a travelogue of the mess (if such still occurs, hopefully not, though) from a safe distance

 

[richm49]

That's totally fair and I completely understand everyone who is doing it. It might sound masochistic. I'm just hauling a small backpack with me, a pen and a notebook and I will be noting everything down for how my trip goes in a few weeks. You'll be able to read a travelogue of the mess (if such still occurs, hopefully not, though) from a safe distance

Good luck!!

 

[neroden]

According to someone on Train Orders, things are happening in Chicago:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,3543711

Good news. If NS has been chewed out by shippers and other Class Is during 16 hours of meetings, and the AAR rep has warned NS that their handling of Amtrak is going to be a PR disaster when it comes to Congress and the courts, maybe the NS executive office will finally start giving this area the attention it needs. Since they obviously weren't doing so for the last year.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

How does a railroad go from 4 to 12 hours delay to on-time overnight?

I smell something bad.

Ok I doubt the Amtrak will be on-time at first, but still how does this happen? Three hours before the arrival of Amtrak you clear a path, so the two trains see nothing but green?

 

[Barciur]

It looks like 29 and 30 lost about 1.5 hours between Cleveland and Alliance, OH - so problems not just west of Toledo..

 

[John Bobinyec]

How does a railroad go from 4 to 12 hours delay to on-time overnight?

I smell something bad.

Ok I doubt the Amtrak will be on-time at first, but still how does this happen? Three hours before the arrival of Amtrak you clear a path, so the two trains see nothing but green?

No major railroad would clear a path three hours before an Amtrak train. If they have that kind of excess capacity, they are usually trying to abandon that line and let Amtrak pick it up. Witness recent events on the SWC.

jb

 

[Mark P]

I've been following this topic on and off for the past few days, and it sounds like all the issues have been on the NS tracks between CHI and PGH. I am taking the Cap Limited around thanksgiving between WAS and PGH, on the CSX tracks. Has this section seen the same kind of crazy hours-long delays that is plaguing the western end? Or should I expect everything to run smoothly?

Edit: To clarify, I am originating out of WAS, traveling to PGH.

 

[RampWidget]

I've been following this topic on and off for the past few days, and it sounds like all the issues have been on the NS tracks between CHI and PGH. I am taking the Cap Limited around thanksgiving between WAS and PGH, on the CSX tracks. Has this section seen the same kind of crazy hours-long delays that is plaguing the western end? Or should I expect everything to run smoothly?

My trip this past weekend on 29(4) went well on the CSX section of the route, but that's not to say CSX is immune to delays. We pulled from WAS exactly on time and were a little less than one hour late at PGH, IIRC. We lost about 50" at Viaduct Jct. west of Cumberland waiting on two eastbounds coming off Sand Patch and then reversing around a westbound that was ahead of us on the same track. I'm guessing that the crews on the two eastbound trains were close to their Federal hours of service limits, but that's only my opinion.

According to Amtrak's Web site, the latest performance numbers for 29/30 (September) are:

Primary Cause of DelaysSeptember 2014



Train Interference: 63.9%

• 86.2% on Norfolk Southern
• 13.5% on CSX Corporation
• 0.3% on Amtrak

Track and Signals: 14.1%

• 63.8% on Norfolk Southern
• 34.2% on CSX Corporation
• 1.9% on Amtrak

Operational: 13.2%

• 64.6% on Amtrak
• 27.2% on Norfolk Southern
• 8.2% on CSX Corporation

 

[RampWidget]

No major railroad would clear a path three hours before an Amtrak train. If they have that kind of excess capacity, they are usually trying to abandon that line and let Amtrak pick it up. Witness recent events on the SWC.

jb

Maybe not three hours, but I have visited dispatching offices and on more than one occasion witnessed routes cleared up to an hour in advance for Amtrak in single-track territory.

Edit: grammar

 

[richm49]

I've been following this topic on and off for the past few days, and it sounds like all the issues have been on the NS tracks between CHI and PGH. I am taking the Cap Limited around thanksgiving between WAS and PGH, on the CSX tracks. Has this section seen the same kind of crazy hours-long delays that is plaguing the western end? Or should I expect everything to run smoothly?

Edit: To clarify, I am originating out of WAS, traveling to PGH.

According to archived data from statusmaps.net you should be in good shape for your trip. For the month of September, 29/CL arriving in PGH averaged only 28 minutes delays. There were two days of meltdowns on 9/5 and 9/15 when it arrived 181 and 193 minutes late but even with those big delays factored in the average is still under half an hour. In fact, in 30 days of September 29/CL actually arrived on time 12 of the 30 days with 6 other delays of 15 minutes or less! That is a fairly good on time performance. Based on this data you should be in good shape for you trip. However, that being said you may want to track the on-time performance for 29/CL for yourself as the date for your trip gets closer.Simply go to status maps.net, click on "status file archives" and enter train # 29 and search the date/dates that you want the info for. Good luck and have a good trip.

 

[acelafan]

I've been following this topic on and off for the past few days, and it sounds like all the issues have been on the NS tracks between CHI and PGH. I am taking the Cap Limited around thanksgiving between WAS and PGH, on the CSX tracks. Has this section seen the same kind of crazy hours-long delays that is plaguing the western end? Or should I expect everything to run smoothly?

Edit: To clarify, I am originating out of WAS, traveling to PGH.

According to archived data from statusmaps.net you should be in good shape for your trip. For the month of September, 29/CL arriving in PGH averaged only 28 minutes delays. There were two days of meltdowns on 9/5 and 9/15 when it arrived 181 and 193 minutes late but even with those big delays factored in the average is still under half an hour. In fact, in 30 days of September 29/CL actually arrived on time 12 of the 30 days with 6 other delays of 15 minutes or less! That is a fairly good on time performance. Based on this data you should be in good shape for you trip. However, that being said you may want to track the on-time performance for 29/CL for yourself as the date for your trip gets closer.Simply go to status maps.net, click on "status file archives" and enter train # 29 and search the date/dates that you want the info for. Good luck and have a good trip.

John's archive data is excellent. I am taking it and putting it into a searchable format at this link:

http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php ( you can also just Google "Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database" )

Just stick in the train number you want, station, and dates.

Here is a link showing #29 arriving/departing from PGH:

http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history.php?train_num=29&station=pgh&date_start=9%2F1%2F2014&date_end=9%2F30%2F2014&sort=schAr&sort_dir=DESC&limit=&co=gt&limit_mins=

 

[Barciur]

Any news on today's 29? When did it get to TOL? Final arrival in CHI?

 

[Barciur]

Anybody knows what's been happening to passengers missing their Pittsburgh connection? Are they being taken to WAS if they are goijng to Philly, or being bussed?

 

[neroden]

I read elsewhere that Amtrak has secured the buses from Toledo to Chicago through Sunday. We shall see what happens on Monday.

 

[richm49]

According to statusmaps.net there is no activity reported for either 29 or 49 Westbound to CHI for either 10/8 or for 10/9 . Does not show anything, not even truncated service to TOL. What is going on with these trains? Has Amtrak just annulled them or are they just not showing up on the database? I would not hold my breath waiting for this mess to get cleared up any time soon. Glad that I got rid of my reservations for 49/LSL later this month and turned them in for sleeper on 51/Cardinal.

 

[Barciur]

They are not showing because AMTRAK put them on Service Disruption and that makes them not show up on Amtrak Status Maps.

 

[richm49]

They are not showing because AMTRAK put them on Service Disruption and that makes them not show up on Amtrak Status Maps.

I guess that is Amtrak's answer to dealing with this mess. Just make the trains disappear from an activity database. Maybe they think that people will just forget about them if they don't report movement activity.

 

[acelafan]

Service Disruptions reported on #29 since Sept 1st:

http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history_file.php?date_start=9%2F1%2F2014&date_end=12%2F31%2F2014&train_num=29&sort=origin_date&sort_dir=DESC&sd=1&c=-1

Service Disruptions reported on #49 since Sept 1st:

http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history_file.php?date_start=9%2F1%2F2014&date_end=12%2F31%2F2014&train_num=49&sort=origin_date&sort_dir=DESC&sd=1&c=-1

Service Disruptions reported system-wide since Sept 1st:

http://juckins.net/amtrak_status/archive/html/history_file.php?date_start=9%2F1%2F2014&date_end=12%2F31%2F2014&train_num=&sort=origin_date&sort_dir=DESC&sd=1&c=-1

 

[Henry Kisor]

No. 29 (10) left WAS on time today at 4:05. The Amtrak desk at WAS assured my party that the train would not be stopped at Toledo and the passengers bused onward, but would go straight through to CHI.

We'll see what happens now.

No. 30 (9) is more than 4 hours late now.

 

[afigg]

The westbound trains did show up on Track-a-Train, but with no data for stations stops. I saw CL #29 was still enroute to TOL mid-morning, so it was running very late. Probably got jammed up between PGH and TOL as #30 has been the past couple of days.

With 3+ days of bustitutions, the bus transfer process should be a little better organized, so the delays for last night's eastbound trains may be about as best as can be done. The driving time from CHI to TOL is the same as the CL and LSL trip times, so the buses are not covering a overly slow segment of Amtrak service where the bus can make up time lost getting the large mass of passengers on and off the buses. Especially transferring grumpy passengers from the buses to the train at TOL at middle of the night hours which can't be fun. The status maps data is not showing the departure time from TOL, but starts with Sandusky:

CL #30 (10/8) departed SKY 1 hour and 29 minutes late, then PGH 3 hours and 49 minutes late.

LSL #48 (10/8) departed SKY 2 hours and 3 minutes late, then SYR 3 hours and 22 minutes late.

If the delays between TOL to CHI are back down to less than 2 hours, might as well as run the trains to CHI, because that is how roughly much time is being lost with the buses.

 

[jis]

2 or 3 hour delays are manageable. 6 hours is not. There not enough crew available on the Toledo extra board to run the service with regular 6 hour delays.

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