Cars to be rebuilt

[Upstate]

I would much rather ride in a Viewliner roomette than a Superliner roomette. The fact that you have a private sink and toilet is a HUGE plus IMO.

Toilets in the room is just wrong. First off if one person wants to use the toilet the other is stuck waiting in the hall. Then if they poop you run the risk of stinking up the room. If you don't want to use the in room toilet then you have to go through the dining car and lounge car to get to a coach with a toilet.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Its called money.

no its called employment. installing the outlets at each seat keeps the employees working. they have family's to support. let them rebuild the superliners and add outlets. keeps them working untill new cars arrive instead of laying them off for years while new cars get built.

 

[AlanB]

Its called money.

no its called employment. installing the outlets at each seat keeps the employees working. they have family's to support. let them rebuild the superliners and add outlets. keeps them working untill new cars arrive instead of laying them off for years while new cars get built.

Yes, but employees don't usually like working if they aren't getting paid, so it does come back to money. If there is no money to pay for the parts needed to do the overhaul (and add outlets while the overhaul is happening), then you can't keep the employees on the payroll.

 

[AlanB]

Since this thread is ostensibly about the cars being rebuilt, I'll mention that a lot of the Amfleets being rebuilt are actually Cafe cars (currently stored due to various incompatible interior configurations) that will be rebuilt as coaches.

I have no info on the wrecks that are sitting in Bear, but of the 41 AMF's mothballed for lack of funds to make the needed repairs to pass FRA inspections, here's the break down:

17 are coaches or full length business class coaches

22 are some form of cafe or dinette

2 I can't tell as those numbers don't exist on any roster that I have available.

Breaking it down further:

1 Amcafe

2 Amdinettes

3 Metroliner dinettes

4 Metroliner Club cars

15 Amcoaches

1 Cafe Lounge

1 Full dinette

3 Metroliner Full dinette

2 Business class cars

1 Amclub

1 Club-dinette (the current BC car used on most single level routes other than the NEC)

5 Regional cafes

2 Unkown

 

[colobok]

Viewliners desing must be changed. It is stupid to have shower in EVERY bedroom. They took so much space and they are no convenient to use anyway (too small, bad design).

One shower room per car is enogh. Instead bedrooms for 4 passengers (like family bedroom) would be great to have!

 

[AlanB]

Taking a look at the Superliner side of things, here's a breakdown of what was wrecked and sitting in BG as of March 10th of this year:

13 Coaches

9 Sleepers

5 Diners

7 Lounges

6 Dorms

That's a total of 40 cars out of service. Of that amount I have no idea how many are actually repairable and how many are just sitting around for insurance purposes and/or are being canabalized for parts. Back in 2002 it was stated by Stan Bagley from Amtrak that 16 of the wrecks at that time were beyond repair. Extrapolating from that, I would tend to figure that at least 10 of the current 40 wrecked cars is beyond repair, and perhaps as many as 15 or 16 are actually beyond repair.

 

[AlanB]

Viewliners desing must be changed. It is stupid to have shower in EVERY bedroom. They took so much space and they are no convenient to use anyway (too small, bad design).One shower room per car is enogh. Instead bedrooms for 4 passengers (like family bedroom) would be great to have!

Unfortunately just removing the shower from the bedroom would do nothing to increase space within the Bedroom, since it doubles as the bathroom too. You'd have to remove the entire bathroom and sink with vanity in order to shoehorn in any more beds into the Bedroom. And if you take out the bathroom in the room, then everyone in that room would have to walk two cars back to the lounge car to use the facilities.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Its called money.

no its called employment. installing the outlets at each seat keeps the employees working. they have family's to support. let them rebuild the superliners and add outlets. keeps them working untill new cars arrive instead of laying them off for years while new cars get built.

And with your plan we're going to run out of money by squandering it on Superliners that will require a full overhaul in another few years anyway while the baggage and heritage cars fall to pieces and we have nothing to replace them...

And then what?

Amtrak needs to use this money in the long term, not the short term. They're getting a one-shot deal to fix their system and try and bring it back. WHo knows? They may actually turn a profit after all this is over...

 

[colobok]

Viewliners desing must be changed. It is stupid to have shower in EVERY bedroom. They took so much space and they are no convenient to use anyway (too small, bad design).One shower room per car is enogh. Instead bedrooms for 4 passengers (like family bedroom) would be great to have!

Unfortunately just removing the shower from the bedroom would do nothing to increase space within the Bedroom, since it doubles as the bathroom too. You'd have to remove the entire bathroom and sink with vanity in order to shoehorn in any more beds into the Bedroom. And if you take out the bathroom in the room, then everyone in that room would have to walk two cars back to the lounge car to use the facilities.

Yes, remove shower and entire bathroom! One or two general bathrooms for the car is enough. People in Superliners go to common bathrooms, so what is the problem?

 

[jackal]

Viewliners desing must be changed. It is stupid to have shower in EVERY bedroom. They took so much space and they are no convenient to use anyway (too small, bad design).One shower room per car is enogh. Instead bedrooms for 4 passengers (like family bedroom) would be great to have!

Unfortunately just removing the shower from the bedroom would do nothing to increase space within the Bedroom, since it doubles as the bathroom too. You'd have to remove the entire bathroom and sink with vanity in order to shoehorn in any more beds into the Bedroom. And if you take out the bathroom in the room, then everyone in that room would have to walk two cars back to the lounge car to use the facilities.

Yes, remove shower and entire bathroom! One or two general bathrooms for the car is enough. People in Superliners go to common bathrooms, so what is the problem?

I doubt removing the shower and bathroom (which isn't that big) is going to add enough space to add any more accommodations than currently exist in the car--especially since you'd then need to use that room to add a couple of shared bathrooms for the car.

If I'm paying that much money (or points ) for a bedroom, I rather like the idea of having my own private bathroom and shower. Taking it out may actually hurt bedroom sales.

Now, toilets in roomettes is a different story...that seems pointless...

 

[colobok]

Viewliners desing must be changed. It is stupid to have shower in EVERY bedroom. They took so much space and they are no convenient to use anyway (too small, bad design).One shower room per car is enogh. Instead bedrooms for 4 passengers (like family bedroom) would be great to have!

Unfortunately just removing the shower from the bedroom would do nothing to increase space within the Bedroom, since it doubles as the bathroom too. You'd have to remove the entire bathroom and sink with vanity in order to shoehorn in any more beds into the Bedroom. And if you take out the bathroom in the room, then everyone in that room would have to walk two cars back to the lounge car to use the facilities.

Yes, remove shower and entire bathroom! One or two general bathrooms for the car is enough. People in Superliners go to common bathrooms, so what is the problem?

I doubt removing the shower and bathroom (which isn't that big) is going to add enough space to add any more accommodations than currently exist in the car--especially since you'd then need to use that room to add a couple of shared bathrooms for the car.

If I'm paying that much money (or points ) for a bedroom, I rather like the idea of having my own private bathroom and shower. Taking it out may actually hurt bedroom sales.

It's you are the only one person travelling in the bedroom.

But if you have 3 or 4 people then you need to buy 2 roommettes instead of one bedroom (30000 points instead of 20000 )

And I really doubt people buy bedrooms because of the shower...

 

[AlanB]

I doubt removing the shower and bathroom (which isn't that big) is going to add enough space to add any more accommodations than currently exist in the car--especially since you'd then need to use that room to add a couple of shared bathrooms for the car.

While one could not add a new room to the train car, taking out the entire shower/vanity/bathroom unit would allow one to put two child sized bunks into the room, creating a family room in effect. The big problem is that you'd then have to sacrafice two roomettes over to public bathrooms for the entire car. So in effect to add two kids to a bedroom, we'd be sacrificing one bedroom and two roomettes. Not a good deal from Amtrak's perspective.

 

[AlanB]

If I'm paying that much money (or points ) for a bedroom, I rather like the idea of having my own private bathroom and shower. Taking it out may actually hurt bedroom sales.

It's you are the only one person travelling in the bedroom.

But if you have 3 or 4 people then you need to buy 2 roommettes instead of one bedroom (30000 points instead of 20000 )

And I really doubt people buy bedrooms because of the shower...

Actually there are people who do buy the bedrooms for the shower, but many more do so simply for the larger space and the convienence of having the bathroom in the room. Granted on a Viewliner everyone has a bathroom in the room, but still it is nicer that the bedroom has an enclosed bathroom. And of course on the Superliner, it's the only public room with a bathroom inside the room.

 

[nferr]

I would much rather ride in a Viewliner roomette than a Superliner roomette. The fact that you have a private sink and toilet is a HUGE plus IMO.

Toilets in the room is just wrong. First off if one person wants to use the toilet the other is stuck waiting in the hall. Then if they poop you run the risk of stinking up the room. If you don't want to use the in room toilet then you have to go through the dining car and lounge car to get to a coach with a toilet.

I was talking about traveling solo. Yes, it's problematic with two in a roomette. Traveling solo give me a Viewliner roomette anyday over a Superliner roomette.

Having your own private toilet facilities worked fine in the 10-6 days. Anything beats a public toilet IMO.

 

[sunchaser]

If I'm paying that much money (or points ) for a bedroom, I rather like the idea of having my own private bathroom and shower. Taking it out may actually hurt bedroom sales.

It's you are the only one person travelling in the bedroom.

But if you have 3 or 4 people then you need to buy 2 roommettes instead of one bedroom (30000 points instead of 20000 )

And I really doubt people buy bedrooms because of the shower...

Actually there are people who do buy the bedrooms for the shower, but many more do so simply for the larger space and the convienence of having the bathroom in the room. Granted on a Viewliner everyone has a bathroom in the room, but still it is nicer that the bedroom has an enclosed bathroom. And of course on the Superliner, it's the only public room with a bathroom inside the room.

We are some of those that purchase a bedroom (Superliner) for the bathroom, shower, & added overall space. We originally looked at the roomette, but decided for the above reasons (and others) to choose bedrooms. It did raise the overall price. But the thought was, since we are travelling such a long distance, we wanted the ability to really be comfortable & stretch out if needed. Also the extra chair is an added bonus to me.

 

[Trogdor]

Since this thread is ostensibly about the cars being rebuilt, I'll mention that a lot of the Amfleets being rebuilt are actually Cafe cars (currently stored due to various incompatible interior configurations) that will be rebuilt as coaches.

Where did you hear this?

Marc Magliari, last Saturday.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Since this thread is ostensibly about the cars being rebuilt, I'll mention that a lot of the Amfleets being rebuilt are actually Cafe cars (currently stored due to various incompatible interior configurations) that will be rebuilt as coaches.

You must have mis-understood. They are not going to convert food service cars to coaches. It would be stupid on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.

 

[Trogdor]

Since this thread is ostensibly about the cars being rebuilt, I'll mention that a lot of the Amfleets being rebuilt are actually Cafe cars (currently stored due to various incompatible interior configurations) that will be rebuilt as coaches.

You must have mis-understood. They are not going to convert food service cars to coaches. It would be stupid on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.

So you must be calling an Amtrak spokesman a liar. That, or you're calling me a liar. Either way, be careful what you say.

Stored Amfleet food service cars do nobody any good. Coaches that can earn revenue to improve short-distance corridor service (given the lack of anything else available) are what Amtrak needs.

I suppose you have a better idea on where Amtrak can get a bunch of coaches on short notice.

 

[had8ley]

While we're on the re-building page....I rode the Crescent with the "New York Club" cafe. All they've done to the smoking section is remove the door and left the bench like seating. Wouldn't these be ideal candidates for a half cafe, half Business Class makeover?

 

[Steve4031]

Regarding the food service cars . . . I don't know if there is a shortage of these cars, but they could put seating in both ends with windows and then use the middle part for something else. It could be used for luggage or bikes, etc. (I know that is a reach) or they could use it for a crew area to free up space in the regular food service car. I would think that this is a time for outside the box thinking.

I saw a post about superliner cars being rebuilt. They could almost make the Sunset daily plus add superliner service someplace else. one these cars are put back into service. They could start putting them into service on the midwest routes to replace the problematic horizon cars next winter.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

If they're planning to convert every single food service Amfleet car to a coach, where do they expect to come up with lounge cars for a few more Downeaster trainsets? And why are they passing up the opportunity to add a cafe car to the Hiawatha Service trains? And what if extensions into Virginia require a few more cafe cars for the Northeast Regional?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

With regard to the Dining Car situation, there was a bit of news to come out of the NARP Meeting yesterday in Baltimore. Joe McHugh Vice President, Government Affairs and Corporate Communications was there and spoke briefly about the rebuild projects. He said that the Amfleet/Diner/Baggage restorations are continuing and they plan to pretty much empty the warehouse, so to speak, with only a few cars left mothballed when all is said and done. With the Diners going back onto the Lake Shore, they're still going to be perilously short on spares until the new cars arrive in a few years, he said, so they are seriously looking at bringing the Viewliner Diner back into service later this year. He said that right now it's being transported from Bear to Beech Grove to draw up new blueprints for the new Viewliner Diners when they go to the production line, and after that it may go out for revenue service to fill in while the new diners are being negotiated.

If they put real dining cars back on the LSL, is it possible that the LSL's pretend dining cars could take over as the LSL lounge cars so that the Boston section sleeper passengers can get hot meals (even if there's no flat iron steak)?

 

[AlanB]

While we're on the re-building page....I rode the Crescent with the "New York Club" cafe. All they've done to the smoking section is remove the door and left the bench like seating. Wouldn't these be ideal candidates for a half cafe, half Business Class makeover?

While it probably would be nice to start offering BC seating on the LD's, I see two problems with this. First, more than half the Amfleet II cafe cars have already been converted to Diner-Lite cars. And the second, and IMHO, bigger problem is that these cars represent the only lounge car on the train. They're already not big enough for a full passenger load even when they have tables on both ends of the cars. Putting BC seating would further cut down on the lounge's capacity. I'd much prefer to see either table returned to the car like it once had, or finish completing the Diner-Lite conversions to achieve a uniform fleet.

 

[AlanB]

If they're planning to convert every single food service Amfleet car to a coach, where do they expect to come up with lounge cars for a few more Downeaster trainsets?

I'm not sure that Amtrak actually has a shortage of single level cafe cars right now, so I don't think that's really a problem. And eventually with new Bi-levels for many of the Chicago runs, Amtrak will have even more single level cafe cars available.

And why are they passing up the opportunity to add a cafe car to the Hiawatha Service trains?

We don't even run cafe cars on the two and a half hour Empire Service between ALB & NYP, why would they want to put cafe cars on the one and a half hour Hiawatha service. Besides, that's a State Sponsored service. Amtrak isn't going to add anything to that service that the states aren't going to pay for.

And what if extensions into Virginia require a few more cafe cars for the Northeast Regional?

The extensions are just that, extensions of existing Amtrak NEC trains, so they already have cafe cars.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Since this thread is ostensibly about the cars being rebuilt, I'll mention that a lot of the Amfleets being rebuilt are actually Cafe cars (currently stored due to various incompatible interior configurations) that will be rebuilt as coaches.

You must have mis-understood. They are not going to convert food service cars to coaches. It would be stupid on so many levels, I don't know where to begin.

So you must be calling an Amtrak spokesman a liar. That, or you're calling me a liar. Either way, be careful what you say.

Stored Amfleet food service cars do nobody any good. Coaches that can earn revenue to improve short-distance corridor service (given the lack of anything else available) are what Amtrak needs.

I suppose you have a better idea on where Amtrak can get a bunch of coaches on short notice.

I am not calling you a liar. I said specifically, "you must have misunderstood", and telling the truth is only laying out information as it occurs in your mind. Lying is stating information you know to be untrue.

There are several reasons why the Amfleet I cafe cars can not be full coaches. They have mechanical equipment, reinforcements, and so on that would make the conversion extraordinarily expensive and downright silly.

Now, here is what I think is actually the plan, and what I think Magliari was saying, is that they were planning on converting these cars to a layout similar to the original AmCafe layout- coach seats on both sides of the snack bar. I guess you could call that a "coach", and it would make more sense. After all, the snack bar doesn't take that much space, when you get down to it.

There are trains on the system running with Club-Dinettes and full-dinettes that really don't need them. For example, the Downeaster is a short run. There isn't much need for table seating on that train. Running it with a club-snack-coach car that has the BC section in one end, the snack bar, and coach seats in the other would increase capacity significantly.

Likewise, people have mentioned the Hiawatha. Yeah, Wisconsin doesn't pay for a food service car. But Amtrak runs the at-seat carts anyway. Perhaps they could (and will) experiment with the idea of a mid-train snack-coach instead. All you give up is a few seats, while greatly improving the selection and types of food available.

Another place it might work is providing a second snack car on long regional trains.

Honestly, I've never understood why they got rid of the the snack-coach configuration. Its not great railroading, but NEC regional trains have never been about that.