Cashless Acela cafe

[PRR 60]

All airlines are now cashless in the US (I think I can make this generalized statement). It was to cut down the time it takes for each transaction to occur and the logistics of handeling peddy cash. Theft is less of an issue.

Perhaps major airlines, but some of the regional carriers are not. Traveling on an AA connection from mainline to regional you go from credit or debit card only, to cash only.

 

[tricia]

Nobody has verified a theft issue, but the time and costs of reconciling, securing, and depositing cash probably more than offset the additional transaction costs of credit cards. Also, a better POS and system for inventory control would allow cafes to open sooner and stay open later, with the same labor. That caouldn't hurt. Runs like NYP to Albany might start to make sense again.

When balancing costs and benefits, there's an additional cost to consider: How many passengers who would have paid cash decide instead not to make a purchase? I know I'm reluctant to fuss with a credit card for, say, a $2 soft drink.

 

[Don Newcomb]

When balancing costs and benefits, there's an additional cost to consider: How many passengers who would have paid cash decide instead not to make a purchase? I know I'm reluctant to fuss with a credit card for, say, a $2 soft drink.

I might be one of those. I balance my accounts monthly and micro-purchases are a PITA to keep track of.

 

[fairviewroad]

All airlines are now cashless in the US (I think I can make this generalized statement). It was to cut down the time it takes for each transaction to occur and the logistics of handeling peddy cash. Theft is less of an issue.

Perhaps major airlines, but some of the regional carriers are not. Traveling on an AA connection from mainline to regional you go from credit or debit card only, to cash only.

This is also true on Delta. Plastic-only on mainline, cash-only on regional. I'm not sure about United. It's weird...but whatever. IMO relatively few regional flights offer BOB beyond alcohol, and if you really need your liquor on a one-hour flight you will probably figure out how to make that happen.

When balancing costs and benefits, there's an additional cost to consider: How many passengers who would have paid cash decide instead not to make a purchase? I know I'm reluctant to fuss with a credit card for, say, a $2 soft drink.

I might be one of those. I balance my accounts monthly and micro-purchases are a PITA to keep track of.

For debit cards, yes. But for credit cards, I don't see it as a hassle. Frankly, it's the way our economy is moving. I like to at least have a cash option, personally, but I'm no longer hung up on using cash just because it's a small transaction.

 

[PVD]

Keep in mind that many regional flights are operated by companies other than the mainline under contract. A few of the regionals are owned by the mainline but most are not.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Personally, as a businessman, cash is a serious pain on so many levels. A lot of my customers thought I preferred cash because of the transaction fees- they were wrong.

I personally find swiping easier.

 

[fairviewroad]

Keep in mind that many regional flights are operated by companies other than the mainline under contract. A few of the regionals are owned by the mainline but most are not.

A meaningless distinction for members of the traveling public. And if the "parent" carrier wanted a uniform BOB experience for their passengers across all of their regional carriers, they could certainly demand it in the contract. I just doubt it's a big enough concern for them to go to the mat on.

 

[PVD]

It shouldn't be meaningless, and to the experienced traveler it isn't.. The planes are different, the crews are different, usually less experienced, the ability to carry on bags is seriously limited by size, and IFE is not normally offered. The regionals usually do work under very tight arrangements, and are very cost conscious if it helped them they would do it. Most flights on regionals the only sales are the drinks, and the passenger capacities per plane (and thereby cabin crew size are smaller.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Keep in mind that many regional flights are operated by companies other than the mainline under contract. A few of the regionals are owned by the mainline but most are not.

A meaningless distinction for members of the traveling public.

I'm a member of the traveling public and I find the difference between mainline and regional service to be night and day. Nearly every trip I take is routed so that it utilizes mainline flights as much as possible. Cramped seats and limited service regional jets flown with overworked and undertrained staff employed by regional carriers with lax standards and poor safety records is not my idea of a good time.

 

[fairviewroad]

Keep in mind that many regional flights are operated by companies other than the mainline under contract. A few of the regionals are owned by the mainline but most are not.

A meaningless distinction for members of the traveling public.

I'm a member of the traveling public and I find the difference between mainline and regional service to be night and day. Nearly every trip I take is routed so that it utilizes mainline flights as much as possible. Cramped seats and limited service regional jets flown with overworked and undertrained staff employed by regional carriers with lax standards and poor safety records is not my idea of a good time.

Kudos to you for being an informed traveler.

I think a lot of people know the difference between a large plane and a small plane, but I suspect the vast majority neither know nor care whether the flight is technically operated by Delta/AA/United or Air Wisconsin/Chatauqua/Compass etc. The parent carriers market the flights as being their own, right up until the moment something goes wrong, in which case it's "don't blame US..."

 

[neroden]

Nobody has verified a theft issue, but the time and costs of reconciling, securing, and depositing cash probably more than offset the additional transaction costs of credit cards. Also, a better POS and system for inventory control would allow cafes to open sooner and stay open later, with the same labor. That caouldn't hurt. Runs like NYP to Albany might start to make sense again.

When balancing costs and benefits, there's an additional cost to consider: How many passengers who would have paid cash decide instead not to make a purchase? I know I'm reluctant to fuss with a credit card for, say, a $2 soft drink.

Yep, I'm the same. I won't put small charges on credit cards. Same reason, too. Sitting and writing down the accounting records and then balancing them later in the month is a huge pain. Petty cash is much, much faster.

Watch how slow credit cards are when you are someone who insists on actually accounting for them with a register and keeping track of the balance.

I guess nobody on Amtrak is in a hurry, though. They can afford for every cafe transaction to take 5 minutes.

 

[PRR 60]

I've used Quicken since 1999. It makes keeping track of every transaction easy, no matter how small. I save the day's receipts and enter them each evening. The program downloads bank and investment data and compares them to the records I've manually entered. Anything weird going on is flagged very quickly. As a result, cash transactions for my wife and me are few and far between.

 

[afigg]

Edit: As to why not to run the NERs on this, also remember that a bunch of Regionals go "other places" and there's a lot of equipment interchanges (so it wouldn't be implausible to wake up and find a cash-drawer-free cafe on the Crescent or even wind up in the Midwest). With the Acelas, the market is limited, generally upscale, and it's a small number of trains operating in a fixed corridor...and moreover, Amtrak likely knows how many transactions are cash on the Acela.

I expect the NERs cafe cars will go cashless as well in a few years. The trend towards to using debit or credit cards to pay for almost everything for almost all retail transactions is going to to continue. I personally use my credit cards a lot more than I used to for almost all food and meal purchases along with most other purchases because of the cash back and points programs.

One question is whether any of the state DOTs that are providing subsidies for food service on their state supported trains would require the cafe service to go cashless in the near future? If they are convinced that they are losing money to cafe attendants pocketing some of the cash, then if the Acela cafe service has gone cashless, why not their state subsidized train? Of course, politics at the state level will play a role in any such decision.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

It was only 2 years ago the Heartland Flyer cafe got a cash register! Before, the attendant simply tallied up on a sheet of paper or a calculator and kept the cash in a kitty. But even then they took credit cards (with proper ID).

 

[jis]

I guess unlike what some have mentioned I actually find it easier to keep account of credit card transactions than cash ones. That together with what some might even consider exorbitant cash back offers on credit card transactions has of late found me doing hardly any cash transactions at all, no matter what the amount. So far on record the smallest credit card transaction that I have run is $0.79! This bias is further pushed by the fact that any credit card fees are sunk cost with the idea to recoup it and then some, and usually more the transactions the further one comes ahead.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I guess unlike what some have mentioned I actually find it easier to keep account of credit card transactions than cash ones. That together with what some might even consider exorbitant cash back offers on credit card transactions has of late found me doing hardly any cash transactions at all, no matter what the amount. So far on record the smallest credit card transaction that I have run is $0.79! This bias is further pushed by the fact that any credit card fees are sunk cost with the idea to recoup it and then some, and usually more the transactions the further one comes ahead.

We have new vending machines at work and they have the card reader. I've only used my card twice with it butI may go back to using cash because I discovered they tack on 10 cents to the price shown in the machine. I'd rather they increase the price shown.

 

[jis]

Yeah. I avoid those businesses that penalize the use of credit cards. But in general I seldom have enough cash or change in my pocket to carry out any reasonable transaction any more in the US.

But outside the US since US credit cards are mostly useless in any unstaffed retail situation it is another story. It might take US several years to catch up with the rest of the world and start issuing credit or any card that actually works.

As DA has mentioned before the Chip and Signature card with a magstrip are an useless innovation which has mostly feel good value without actually making anything more secure against the most common fraud vectors. Since Europeans and many Asians actually seem to value security they simply don't accept these cards at unmanned vending machines.

 

[PRR 60]

Yeah. I avoid those businesses that penalize the use of credit cards. But in general I seldom have enough cash or change in my pocket to carry out any reasonable transaction any more in the US.

But outside the US since US credit cards are mostly useless in any unstaffed retail situation it is another story. It might take US several years to catch up with the rest of the world and start issuing credit or any card that actually works.

As DA has mentioned before the Chip and Signature card with a magstrip are an useless innovation which has mostly feel good value without actually making anything more secure against the most common fraud vectors. Since Europeans and many Asians actually seem to value security they simply don't accept these cards at unmanned vending machines.

I actually have a real, live chip and pin card, and ironically it's that dinosaur of all credit credit card dinosaurs - a Diners Club card. The USA Diners Club card is issued by Bank of Montreal and, for acceptance purposes, is a Mastercard. I have not had a chance to use it for a true chip and pin transaction yet.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Yeah. I avoid those businesses that penalize the use of credit cards. But in general I seldom have enough cash or change in my pocket to carry out any reasonable transaction any more in the US.

But outside the US since US credit cards are mostly useless in any unstaffed retail situation it is another story. It might take US several years to catch up with the rest of the world and start issuing credit or any card that actually works.

As DA has mentioned before the Chip and Signature card with a magstrip are an useless innovation which has mostly feel good value without actually making anything more secure against the most common fraud vectors. Since Europeans and many Asians actually seem to value security they simply don't accept these cards at unmanned vending machines.

I keep a small stash of cash (mostly coins) in my office desk just for the vending machines. Luckily for my waist, I usually don't have cash on me when I'm near the vending machines.

 

[neroden]

I've had very consistent trouble with credit card companies suddenly and mistakenly deciding that my card has been stolen. Like, about six times a year.

Cash actually WORKS. Reliably. If you don't carry it, you could find yourself unable to pay for anything due to frivolous decisions at the "fraud detection" computers at your credit card company.

Of course, they're much more generous about debit cards, because in the US debit cards have no security and thieves can clean out your account completely and you don't get the money back for months or years. EU rules are much more reasonable about this.

Because of how craptastic the US financial "system" is, I use checks when possible, but most people don't take checks, so I use cash when checks aren't accepted. Credit cards, I tolerate for Internet transactions and things with long lead times (so that I have time to argue with the card company).

Anyway, it's good to learn that Acela has no cafe food available for purchase with money anymore. Means that Northeast Regional is objectively preferable, so it'll be easier to resist paying the extra cost for the slightly faster Acela..

 

[BCL]

Yeah. I avoid those businesses that penalize the use of credit cards. But in general I seldom have enough cash or change in my pocket to carry out any reasonable transaction any more in the US.

But outside the US since US credit cards are mostly useless in any unstaffed retail situation it is another story. It might take US several years to catch up with the rest of the world and start issuing credit or any card that actually works.

As DA has mentioned before the Chip and Signature card with a magstrip are an useless innovation which has mostly feel good value without actually making anything more secure against the most common fraud vectors. Since Europeans and many Asians actually seem to value security they simply don't accept these cards at unmanned vending machines.

The biggest sources of fraud these days in the US are card skimming and database breaches. A system based on token and response at least prevents that. I was under the impression that it required some sort of live communication with the processor, but it sounds like a token can be issued at the point of sale and the response reconciled later. There's probably a limit on such transactions unless there's a live link to the processor.

The key to all this should be that the randomly generated token should be big enough that trying to determine the algorithm should be pretty much impossible.

 

[trainman74]

So far on record the smallest credit card transaction that I have run is $0.79!

I have used a credit card at a City of Los Angeles parking meter to buy 25¢ worth of parking.

 

[BCL]

So far on record the smallest credit card transaction that I have run is $0.79!

I have used a credit card at a City of Los Angeles parking meter to buy 25¢ worth of parking.

There was a time when minimum transaction amounts weren't allowed by the merchant agreement. Now I think most state laws say it can be a minimum $10. ID wasn't allowed to be asked for too, but now it's specifically allowed by state and maybe federal law.

I've paid for a 50 cent newspaper with a credit card. Quite a few parking meters/ticket dispensers I've used post something like a 50 cent credit minimum.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Cash makes no enemies!

 

[BCL]

Cash makes no enemies!

I've been to China, where credit cards are a fairly new phenomena. Hotels and major restaurants may take them easily, but I went into a department store where I was told they might be able to accept Visa if I went to their central bookkeeping office.

I've seen visitors from China in the US carrying wads of cash in envelopes. I've heard of a few who got robbed too, after flashing that much cash. They have little idea that carrying that much cash is a bad idea.