Cell Phone Headache

[leemell]

If someone on the train did have a cell phone jammer, it would disrupt the whole train - including the sleepers, the credit card machines from the cafe and Dining Car, and the Conductor who calls ahead or calls Amtrak to obtain an onboard upgrade!

LOL, you saying an 800MHz phone jammer will wipe out the entire radio spectrum all the way down to the VHF frequencies the railroads use?

I dont think the technology is that powerful. It doesn't take much to over ride a 800MHz cell signal.

No...he's saying that if the conductor calls Amtrak regarding an on board upgrade (i.e. uses a cell phone) that will be disrupted. The credit card terminals operate over a cellular connection, too. Obviously the power the jammer would affect it's range, but the point is that it could disrupt other services on the train. Additionally, as trains become equipped with WiFi, it would have the possibility to knock out internet for the train, which is delivered over a cellular connection (except in particular NEC stations, where Amtrak's system uses the station's WiFi for backhaul of data).

The portable jammers that I have seen only reach about 10M at most and many times only 3M. That is not even half the length of the coach cars. I saw a couple tested in an RF anechoic chamber with a spectrograph. Very low power.

 

[HotlantaAl]

The portable jammers that I have seen only reach about 10M at most and many times only 3M. That is not even half the length of the coach cars. I saw a couple tested in an RF anechoic chamber with a spectrograph. Very low power.

Thank you!

That's exactly what I meant, very low power!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It's up to all of us to speak up if our rights are being infringed upon.

Except for possibly in the designated Quiet Car, I don't think we have a right to silence from all our fellow passengers.

Nobody said anything about demanding "silence," but thanks for yet another of your pointless straw man arguments.

 

[Cristobal]

Amtrak made an unscheduled stop outside Salem. Oregon to kick off a 39 year old lady that had been talking on her cell phone since Oakland, California. The article stated she ignored requests not to use her phone and became confrontational. She calmed down as police escorted her off the train.

It must have been the Coast Starlight on the way to PDX and SEA.

I have observed passengers around me doing the same. On a train from SAS to DFW, a person talked the whole time about her trip, her husband, her sons, her club duties, her dinner party and her friends and did not understand why the train was stopping so much. If she would have shut up long enough to hear the track work announcements, she would have known. I finally went to the bar car to consume heavy drink as I was seated right behind her. I came back with a cane borrowed from a passenger up front only to find she was gone.

I had a sales manager once make a presentation to me once. His phone kept ringing and he kept taking the calls. I stood up finally and said, "when you have time for me, call me and I will listen." I have never owned a cell phone until this year and have managed quite well. I do not know my number.

http://www.kmtr.com/...AQ.cspx?rss=191

That's 16 hours. 16 HOURS!! And she was on her cell phone all that time? Unbelievable...

That's not even possible. There are many cell phone 'dead zones' through that region as the CS winds through the mountains of northern CA/southern OR. Of course, she looks like the type that would become even louder and more enraged every time she dropped a call. I'd be willing to bet that it was one too many middle-of-the-night tirades that actually got her tossed off the train.

 

[lthanlon]

Click through to that video's YouTube page to see shocking racism in its full glory. Must be laundry day for so many white sheets to be flapping in the wind. Very distressing.

 

[The Chief]

There are some great and hilarious readers' comments on this ^ story about this aggressive, threatening and loud phone-using pax from Portland Oregonlive.

This story is getting bigger, one may say it's blowin' up the phone,,,

edit adding destination location / mileage,,,

Some posters wondered why toss her near Salem instead of earlier,,,stories indicate she was going to Tigard, Oregon, a Portland suburb town, only about 40 miles from Salem. So it was to her benefit, as stories say she was picked up at the PD by a family member.

 

[Rider]

Yeah - once again going with consensus - not a thing wrong in the world with cell phones - what is the problem is idiots with them. Kinda like idiots behind the wheel of cars - nothing wrong with cars (except gas guzzling). It's the idiots.

Here's my political platform: "It's the idiots, stupid."

Cell phone jammers? Gimme a break. Silly idea. I use my phone on the train, but softly. And would quickly desist, or move to the cafe, if asked.

We do all (including me) have to learn to speak up and tell people to shut up. Or, if we feel intimidated, we have to go find an attendant or a conductor (always one or two in the cafe) and complain.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

I had a issue on the CS last year with a A Very cranky DCA . she barked at me for having my phone on me ..

"no electronics in the dining car" .....

I told her " I guess your watch is first "

My US Airforce Aux ( CAP ) work while on duty is way more important then some ladys wishful thinkings on a bloddy train .

""Mam My job is to take calls from FEMA CALEMA US Air Force and other GOV entity's and then dispatch CAP assets to save lives .

I would call my job when on duty to be vital to the state of CA and her people .

If I do not take My phone calls while on duty people in CA could die ! .

And Interfering with my job in any way is on par by law as interfering with a LEO investigation . I looked it up .. not good .""""

She was not pleased with my response .

Peter .....

 

[The Crazy Vacationer]

This story made the evening news in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

I applaud Amtrak from removing annoying cell phone users. Apparently, she became verbally abusive to nearby passengers when they asked her to talk a little less loudly. What is it about cell phones that makes people think they need to yell? I see this all the time.

 

[George B]

I had a issue on the CS last year with a A Very cranky DCA . she barked at me for having my phone on me ..

"no electronics in the dining car" .....

I told her " I guess your watch is first "

My US Airforce Aux ( CAP ) work while on duty is way more important then some ladys wishful thinkings on a bloddy train .

""Mam My job is to take calls from FEMA CALEMA US Air Force and other GOV entity's and then dispatch CAP assets to save lives .

I would call my job when on duty to be vital to the state of CA and her people .

If I do not take My phone calls while on duty people in CA could die ! .

And Interfering with my job in any way is on par by law as interfering with a LEO investigation . I looked it up .. not good .""""

She was not pleased with my response .

Peter .....

Just because you are associated with a non-profit corporation that has a charter with the United States Congress (which is all that CAP is) does not in any way give you Law Enforcement powers. Nor are you UCMJ, so you do not have military powers. Be careful about presenting yourself as having either of those. Neither the military or law enforcement have a sense of humor about presenting yourself as being sworn, or trying to give the impression that you have those powers.

A MAJOR component of CAP is public relations, and you did a disservice to that by reacting the way you did. I am on-call 24/7, even during vacations, and there are many ways to be compliant with rules and requests of the crew and still be reachable via cellphone. Just put the thing on vibrate and stick it in your pocket. If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody. If you are on alert and have to answer a phone immediately, then let the conductor and the crew know ahead of time. Just because you might be called for an emergency doesn’t mean you have to act like you are in an emergency all of the time.

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that? I’ve been on-call for 16 years, and it isn’t hard to be courteous to others about your cell phone use, yet make sure you are available.

 

[MrJake]

Lots of dog-whistle racism in the comments on this story from the various news sites. Makes me sad.

 

[fairviewroad]

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that?

No worries. If the conversation actually took place as reported, I don't think anyone who overheard will have the slightest

clue what CAP is.

 

[George B]

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that?

No worries. If the conversation actually took place as reported, I don't think anyone who overheard will have the slightest

clue what CAP is.

Very true!

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Lets see I NEVER said I was a cop . I have NO arrest powers . But Like a Post man or a EMS or a Cop while on duty any assult or hiderince is not takeing lightly .

Second I had My phone IN my pocket ON vibrate . and I GOT a call ffrom CALEMA . I took the call and was walkimg to the lounge car to get My duty binder out to take down Mission notes and other data..

On the way That is when she gave me her undeeded opinion .. and taht is when I gave her a the speech .

I see no need to tell the conductor that iam On duty . normaly I never have a issue with others second guessing why iam on a cell phone .

In fact interifering with ANYONE during a lifesaving operation is a crime . ANY call I get is assumed to me to be a pritty critiacal call

This really applyes to anyone

if you stop a Md on a train from him doing his job after HE or She has decided to take on the case of a person who is sick and taht person dies as a DIRECT result of a nothers persons actions . that person can be charged witha crime .

this is all I was reminng her off . While I was on the phone .

EDIT: My policy is to take the call while leaving or getting up so IT do not risk it dropping to voice mail .

had I waited to take it in the lounge I would have missed it and teh CALEMA number isnot caller ID on my phone SO I have no way to call them back ..

NOW the USAFRCC I Do have the direct line with and I do with them refuse teh call and call back in a few seconds if I need to .

Perhaps I gave her a hard time but i am SO sick of anyone bothering me .

people are way to nosy and I hate it SO much .

..........................

Now On the flip side ALL my teachers and friends are aware what I do and know if its a call I need to take that itrs for work not fun

I deal with them on a day to day basis and are FAR more likely to be involved with me being called .

and lets face it

A) most conducotrs would not know CAP from a fly on the wall and would not care ...

B) they are super busy . Esp the dude I had to deal with on teh CS that day .

he was teh same cranky dude who was VERY rude to 2 Chinese sudents with a 2 Inch to large cary on bag In Eugene . ( the handle poked out too far )

I all readdy knew He was not approchable .....

Perhaps I need to make a form to hand to people to let it do the taking ...

peter...

 

[SP&S]

This story made the evening news in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

I applaud Amtrak from removing annoying cell phone users. Apparently, she became verbally abusive to nearby passengers when they asked her to talk a little less loudly. What is it about cell phones that makes people think they need to yell? I see this all the time.

When you speak into a regular landline phone, you hear yourself thru the earpiece. In most cell phones, you don't hear yourself at all. This causes people to, unconsciously, raise their voice to compensate. It's still irritating as anything. I applaud the crew for their actions, but if she'd been loudly yammering all the way from Oakland I'm surprised she didn't get the boot earlier, say in Dunsmuir.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

This story made the evening news in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

I applaud Amtrak from removing annoying cell phone users. Apparently, she became verbally abusive to nearby passengers when they asked her to talk a little less loudly. What is it about cell phones that makes people think they need to yell? I see this all the time.

When you speak into a regular landline phone, you hear yourself thru the earpiece. In most cell phones, you don't hear yourself at all. This causes people to, unconsciously, raise their voice to compensate. It's still irritating as anything. I applaud the crew for their actions, but if she'd been loudly yammering all the way from Oakland I'm surprised she didn't get the boot earlier, say in Dunsmuir.

Maybe they needed to wait till they could get the news cameras in place.

 

[leemell]

This story made the evening news in Minneapolis-St. Paul.

I applaud Amtrak from removing annoying cell phone users. Apparently, she became verbally abusive to nearby passengers when they asked her to talk a little less loudly. What is it about cell phones that makes people think they need to yell? I see this all the time.

When you speak into a regular landline phone, you hear yourself thru the earpiece. In most cell phones, you don't hear yourself at all. This causes people to, unconsciously, raise their voice to compensate. It's still irritating as anything. I applaud the crew for their actions, but if she'd been loudly yammering all the way from Oakland I'm surprised she didn't get the boot earlier, say in Dunsmuir.

Hearing yourself in the earpiece is referred to as sidetone. With regard to cell phones, most have some sidetone, a few have none. A fairly decent article on telephone sidetone is here.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Side tone is a HUGE help with phones . I use it witth My ham HTs and Skype . Why its not a option on all phones is beyond me . Its a software re route for the audio Bit stream .

Anyone here Know some C?

I do NOT use bluetooth ear plug I use a Modded motorrola Pro Headset I added BT too ( soon a david clark headset some day soon ) for My gear . I added a Small Class D Amp to run a sidetone but I need to replace the batts ..... I wantted to tap in to the BT batt but its 3V not 5 so Its not going to run ..

Peter

 

[John Bredin]

Just because you are associated with a non-profit corporation that has a charter with the United States Congress (which is all that CAP is) does not in any way give you Law Enforcement powers. Nor are you UCMJ, so you do not have military powers. Be careful about presenting yourself as having either of those. Neither the military or law enforcement have a sense of humor about presenting yourself as being sworn, or trying to give the impression that you have those powers.
A MAJOR component of CAP is public relations, and you did a disservice to that by reacting the way you did. I am on-call 24/7, even during vacations, and there are many ways to be compliant with rules and requests of the crew and still be reachable via cellphone. Just put the thing on vibrate and stick it in your pocket. If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody. If you are on alert and have to answer a phone immediately, then let the conductor and the crew know ahead of time. Just because you might be called for an emergency doesn’t mean you have to act like you are in an emergency all of the time.

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that? I’ve been on-call for 16 years, and it isn’t hard to be courteous to others about your cell phone use, yet make sure you are available.

While I agree with most of this, I have to ask with regards to:

If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody.

If I'm on the train and I run into someone I know, do we have to go "to an area where [we will] not bother anybody" before having a live conversation? :blink: :wacko:

IMHO, the touchstone for cell phone usage is live conversation. If you're in a time or place where having a live conversation would be rude -- theater, church, quiet car, middle of the night in a coach or sleeper -- then having a cell phone conversation would also be rude. Conversely, however, if you're in a time and place where having a live conversation is normal and acceptable, then taking or making a phone call is also acceptable so long as you're not louder than normal conversation.

Being courteous to others is a two-way street, and a train car is neither a cocktail party on one hand nor a monk's cell on the other. Unless it's the middle of the night or I'm in a quiet car, I shouldn't have to retreat to a vestibule because my phone rings.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If I'm on the train and I run into someone I know, do we have to go "to an area where [we will] not bother anybody" before having a live conversation?

It's not quite the same though. The human ear can pick out words at a much softer level when spoken live than when played through a tiny cell phone speaker. As mentioned there is also the sidetone level issue that can inadvertently promote louder than normal speaking and louder than the phone actually requires to function. There are also visual cues and body language that can help fill in the blanks where a softly spoken word is missed that simply don't work over the phone. In some cases the person on the other end is in a much noisier location and so the person in the quiet area will shout in order to be heard, and some people just shout everything all the time in order to avoid repeating themselves. Unlike a live conversation, the person on the phone is unlikely to notice anyone getting annoyed with their unnecessarily loud voice before it has already become a major problem. In the end these differences can conspire to make for a far more annoying experience than two folks having a conversation in person. Mobile phones require us to pay more attention to the sound of our own voice and how it's impacting those who are around us. Unfortunately that's a message that seems to be lost on many and even the folks who witness this often choose to suffer in silence rather than speak up and help perpetuate the problem through inaction. Or at least that's the way I see it.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Just because you are associated with a non-profit corporation that has a charter with the United States Congress (which is all that CAP is) does not in any way give you Law Enforcement powers. Nor are you UCMJ, so you do not have military powers. Be careful about presenting yourself as having either of those. Neither the military or law enforcement have a sense of humor about presenting yourself as being sworn, or trying to give the impression that you have those powers.
A MAJOR component of CAP is public relations, and you did a disservice to that by reacting the way you did. I am on-call 24/7, even during vacations, and there are many ways to be compliant with rules and requests of the crew and still be reachable via cellphone. Just put the thing on vibrate and stick it in your pocket. If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody. If you are on alert and have to answer a phone immediately, then let the conductor and the crew know ahead of time. Just because you might be called for an emergency doesn't mean you have to act like you are in an emergency all of the time.

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that? I've been on-call for 16 years, and it isn't hard to be courteous to others about your cell phone use, yet make sure you are available.

While I agree with most of this, I have to ask with regards to:

If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody.

If I'm on the train and I run into someone I know, do we have to go "to an area where [we will] not bother anybody" before having a live conversation? :blink: :wacko:

IMHO, the touchstone for cell phone usage is live conversation. If you're in a time or place where having a live conversation would be rude -- theater, church, quiet car, middle of the night in a coach or sleeper -- then having a cell phone conversation would also be rude. Conversely, however, if you're in a time and place where having a live conversation is normal and acceptable, then taking or making a phone call is also acceptable so long as you're not louder than normal conversation.

 

Being courteous to others is a two-way street, and a train car is neither a cocktail party on one hand nor a monk's cell on the other. Unless it's the middle of the night or I'm in a quiet car, I shouldn't have to retreat to a vestibule because my phone rings.

Exactly . and this is why I was to be honist ticked off !

and that is also why i was in teh longe car til after my shift was over so i would not disturbe anyone taht night

whats also is a factor was It was not My day to be on call till the next day after I was off the train . But My CO needed some one to fill in for a few hours and Well I got a call at dinner .

I would Never go in a thetre or a place like that while On duty call . Its seting up a disaster !!. but to any NORMAL person a dining carr is not a theatre .

This was HER problem not mine .

 

[George B]

Just because you are associated with a non-profit corporation that has a charter with the United States Congress (which is all that CAP is) does not in any way give you Law Enforcement powers. Nor are you UCMJ, so you do not have military powers. Be careful about presenting yourself as having either of those. Neither the military or law enforcement have a sense of humor about presenting yourself as being sworn, or trying to give the impression that you have those powers.
A MAJOR component of CAP is public relations, and you did a disservice to that by reacting the way you did. I am on-call 24/7, even during vacations, and there are many ways to be compliant with rules and requests of the crew and still be reachable via cellphone. Just put the thing on vibrate and stick it in your pocket. If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody. If you are on alert and have to answer a phone immediately, then let the conductor and the crew know ahead of time. Just because you might be called for an emergency doesn’t mean you have to act like you are in an emergency all of the time.

Do you think that the attendant, or anybody else that might have heard you, has a favorable impression of CAP after that? I’ve been on-call for 16 years, and it isn’t hard to be courteous to others about your cell phone use, yet make sure you are available.

While I agree with most of this, I have to ask with regards to:

If the phone vibrates and you need to take a call, then excuse yourself to an area where you can take the call and not bother anybody.

If I'm on the train and I run into someone I know, do we have to go "to an area where [we will] not bother anybody" before having a live conversation? :blink: :wacko:

IMHO, the touchstone for cell phone usage is live conversation. If you're in a time or place where having a live conversation would be rude -- theater, church, quiet car, middle of the night in a coach or sleeper -- then having a cell phone conversation would also be rude. Conversely, however, if you're in a time and place where having a live conversation is normal and acceptable, then taking or making a phone call is also acceptable so long as you're not louder than normal conversation.

Being courteous to others is a two-way street, and a train car is neither a cocktail party on one hand nor a monk's cell on the other. Unless it's the middle of the night or I'm in a quiet car, I shouldn't have to retreat to a vestibule because my phone rings.

You make a good point…..there are people who can chat for hours on their cell phone while they are sitting next to people and not bother a soul. There are people who can talk for three minutes to the person next to them and drive everybody nuts. I was referring to compliance with requests from crew members. If an attendant or a conductor states that phone calls are not to be taken in particular cars, as has been announced on most trains I have been on, then I will try my best to comply with that. I have to keep my phone with me at all times, but when it is on vibrate and out of site on my person, nobody is really going to notice it. And, if they do, as long as I don’t use it (including not using data services), then nobody bothers me about it.

When I travel by train, the entity I work for that requires I be on-call knows in advance that cell coverage on trains can be very spotty. If it is during a period of time where I have to be able to answer or return a call within seconds or minutes, then I cannot travel by train. Often, I cannot travel at all. So, if you are “on-duty” and are required to answer an incoming call immediately, I don’t know why you would be on a train anyway.

The only cars where cell phone usage has been discouraged or not allowed by the crew has been in the Dining Car and in some Coach Cars. Sleepers have never been mentioned. But, common courtesy should tell people that on a train, your phone should be on vibrate most of the time, or a combination of low-volume ring and vibrate. That doesn’t always work for some people for a variety of reasons. But, most people could get by with vibrate during the daytime.

 

[henryj]

Glad she got kicked off, but Amtrak should have done it sooner. I was on a city bus(an express bus) going home to Katy from downtown Houston and experienced the same thing. This women was talking on her phone before the bus arrive, continued to talk all the way out to Katy, a 45 min trip, and when I left the park and ride in my car I noticed she was sitting on the bench still talking. The bus driver got so rattled that he missed his exit and had to circle back. They don't say in the article what language she was using, but the one I experienced was dropping the F and MF bomb with every other word and talking all about her sexual relations and who had what std and on and on. To experience that for 16 hours non stop would be excruciating to say the least. Probably the best solution would be to accidently just spill your drink on her as you made your way down the aisle. :lol:

 

[busboy]

Lets see I NEVER said I was a cop . I have NO arrest powers . But Like a Post man or a EMS or a Cop while on duty any assult or hiderince is not takeing lightly .

Second I had My phone IN my pocket ON vibrate . and I GOT a call ffrom CALEMA . I took the call and was walkimg to the lounge car to get My duty binder out to take down Mission notes and other data..

On the way That is when she gave me her undeeded opinion .. and taht is when I gave her a the speech .

I see no need to tell the conductor that iam On duty . normaly I never have a issue with others second guessing why iam on a cell phone .

In fact interifering with ANYONE during a lifesaving operation is a crime . ANY call I get is assumed to me to be a pritty critiacal call

This really applyes to anyone

if you stop a Md on a train from him doing his job after HE or She has decided to take on the case of a person who is sick and taht person dies as a DIRECT result of a nothers persons actions . that person can be charged witha crime .

this is all I was reminng her off . While I was on the phone .

EDIT: My policy is to take the call while leaving or getting up so IT do not risk it dropping to voice mail .

had I waited to take it in the lounge I would have missed it and teh CALEMA number isnot caller ID on my phone SO I have no way to call them back ..

NOW the USAFRCC I Do have the direct line with and I do with them refuse teh call and call back in a few seconds if I need to .

Perhaps I gave her a hard time but i am SO sick of anyone bothering me .

people are way to nosy and I hate it SO much .

..........................

Now On the flip side ALL my teachers and friends are aware what I do and know if its a call I need to take that itrs for work not fun

I deal with them on a day to day basis and are FAR more likely to be involved with me being called .

and lets face it

A) most conducotrs would not know CAP from a fly on the wall and would not care ...

B) they are super busy . Esp the dude I had to deal with on teh CS that day .

he was teh same cranky dude who was VERY rude to 2 Chinese sudents with a 2 Inch to large cary on bag In Eugene . ( the handle poked out too far )

I all readdy knew He was not approchable .....

Perhaps I need to make a form to hand to people to let it do the taking ...

peter...

If your role is so vital, and you need to be in constant telephonic contact with your underlings who await your orders to launch the fleet, then why in the world would you be on a train. A train which travels thru mountainous rural areas where cell phone signals are not available. If your function is that important, you should be at home or in your office where there's no chance of missing one of those important calls. After all, as you indicated, lives are on the line.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

If your role is so vital, and you need to be in constant telephonic contact with your underlings who await your orders to launch the fleet, then why in the world would you be on a train

Once again I was not scheduled to be on call till after I got off !!!! .

I was asked to Fill in for some one else as they got sick.

I told My CO that I was on a train and I was not the best pick to fill In . He said he had no one else who would fill in . would YOU back talk YOUR boss . No .

""""""with your underlings who await your orders to launch the fleet,""""

I am not a high up person . People under me are a few cadets and new Coms Ops .

what I do is a EXACTLY what a 911 operator does .. I take down mission info and find Who can take the mission I Am basically a dispatcher . :help:

the Incident commanders are the people who Run the missions .

I call the ICs a to see who can take the Mission . and I have only 30 min to find one .

once a IC has the ball ..Its out of my hands . Till I get another call .

EDIT spelling .

Peter