Connecticut DOT new car order for Alstom

[jis]

9 August 2023 – Alstom and the Connecticut Department of Transportation (CTDOT) confirmed an order for 60 single-level rail coach cars valued at approximately €285 million (approximately USD $315 million) with options to build an additional 313 cars, as part of CTDOT’s coach renewal program for its statewide rail system. Delivery is scheduled to begin in 2026.

https://www.alstom.com/press-releas...ment-transportation-its-statewide-rail-system

 

[jiml]

Presuming locomotive-hauled? It's hard to tell from the illustration that could be a cab car or MU, and no clues in the text.

 

[jis]

https://portal.ct.gov/DOT/CTDOT-Pre...ew-Rail-Cars-to-Modernize-Commuter-Rail-Lines
https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/commuterregional/alstom-lands-315mm-ctdot-order/

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Presuming locomotive-hauled? It's hard to tell from the illustration that could be a cab car or MU, and no clues in the text.

As for as we know, they're locomotive hauled coaches. The basis for these coaches is a family of multiple units, called the Adessias.

 

[jis]

Presuming locomotive-hauled? It's hard to tell from the illustration that could be a cab car or MU, and no clues in the text.

Apparently dual mode locomotive hauled, but it is hard to tell except for a brief mention in the Governor's announcement article.

 

[daybeers]

As far as I know, they will be pulled by the current diesel engines and the six dual-mode engines ordered recently.

While this order was supposed to be placed 3 years ago and $5.25 million per car is absolutely ridiculous, I'm still excited to get rid of the old cars.

 

[tgstubbs1]

As far as I know, they will be pulled by the current diesel engines and the six dual-mode engines ordered recently.

While this order was supposed to be placed 3 years ago and $5.25 million per car is absolutely ridiculous, I'm still excited to get rid of the old cars.

I was wondering how much regular coach cars cost when I realized the cost of these cars. They are rated to 125 mph , have wi-fi and USB, lots of certifications, so I guess they are ready for the long term.

 

[jis]

I was wondering how much regular coach cars cost when I realized the cost of these cars. They are rated to 125 mph , have wi-fi and USB, lots of certifications, so I guess they are ready for the long term.

They are speced for 40 year operating life.

 

[PVD]

There is a possible clue, it says 125 mph capable. Since there is no cat on these cars, and 3rd rail can't do 125 it seems it would have to be loco hauled.

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

As far as I know, they will be pulled by the current diesel engines and the six dual-mode engines ordered recently.

While this order was supposed to be placed 3 years ago and $5.25 million per car is absolutely ridiculous, I'm still excited to get rid of the old cars.

I’m excited to see and ride the new cars, too. But I do like the current engines and will miss them when they are phased out.

I am delighted at how this line has evolved into a success story, when they started with other states’ castoffs.

Although maybe it’s not that surprising. I rode it a few times in the early days, and everyone involved — from the people who repainted those old scraps, to those who scrubbed and cleaned every crevice of every car, to the cheerful, helpful conductors, to the man from CTDOT who spoke at a local Rail Users Network meeting about it — seemed passionate about making it work.

 

[blueman271]

I understand what the original order is for, I do not understand what the option is for. Does the state really need 300 some cars to cover the New Haven Line expresses and the branch lines?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

There is a possible clue, it says 125 mph capable. Since there is no cat on these cars, and 3rd rail can't do 125 it seems it would have to be loco hauled.

Where in Connecticut is there track that runs at 125 mph. New Haven east?

Connecticut has drawn a line with Amtrak about not supporting high speed rail on Metro North tracks. So to see that there buying equipment that is tweaked to 125 mph, and will be more costly to maintain the truck for 125 mph is interesting.

 

[PVD]

125 mph capable does not mean they will run (or ever run in service) at that speed, it merely means they will be tested and approved to that standard.

 

[Septa9739]

As to the price I think what it costs to exercise options is important. I don’t know what that cost is, but the contract may be set up to encourage options being taken.

 

[daybeers]

I was wondering how much regular coach cars cost when I realized the cost of these cars. They are rated to 125 mph , have wi-fi and USB, lots of certifications, so I guess they are ready for the long term.

The Amtrak Midwest Ventures were only $2.7 million and have all those features too.

Even the ACS-64s were $6.66 mil each 10 years ago!

Sigh.

 

[Lcon]

The Hartford line; New Haven to Springfield is given in most of the articles. Is already rated to 110mph. So using 125mph rated equipment makes sense.
Without farther modernization of the system, rails and stations yeah it won’t reach 125mph limits.

 

[west point]

Brightline has proved that 125 MPH operations are possible with diesel hauled locos. IMO that makes any order for regular LD and regional rail equipment now be 125 MPH or more. As well any commuter equipment should be included. That is what appears to be happening.

 

[jis]

Brightline has proved that 125 MPH operations are possible with diesel hauled locos. IMO that makes any order for regular LD and regional rail equipment now be 125 MPH or more. As well any commuter equipment should be included. That is what appears to be happening.

I suppose prrof was needed in the US, where some believe even the laws of Physics are different Diesel trains have operated at 125mph for several decades in the UK. Those Paxman Valenta powered HSTs have always been a pleasure to ride. They have since had their power packs upgraded to MTU ones.

 

[MARC Rider]

I suppose prrof was needed in the US, where some believe even the laws of Physics are different Diesel trains have operated at 125mph for several decades in the UK. Those Paxman Valenta powered HSTs have always been a pleasure to ride. They have since had their power packs upgraded to MTU ones.

Uh, yeah. I rode something called the Inter City 125 on British rail back in 1985. I believe the number referred to the train's top speed, in miles per hour, as the UK was still transitioning to Metric at the time.

 

[Lcon]

I suppose prrof was needed in the US, where some believe even the laws of Physics are different Diesel trains have operated at 125mph for several decades in the UK. Those Paxman Valenta powered HSTs have always been a pleasure to ride. They have since had their power packs upgraded to MTU ones.

The Rolling Stock was never the problem. GE Genesis and Dash 8s are rated for 110mph,
City Sprinters the Amfleet/Metroliner coaches 125mph. Even a rolling Apartment building like the Superliner coach is rated to 100mph.
Amtrak Day zero EMD E8A a US made locomotive that traced its line back to 1937 was rated to 117mph.
The problem is the turns, rails, stations and signals.
The Acela, Amtrak’s flagship and the fastest operating train on the North American continent. With a top speed of 150 mph Takes about an hour and a half to traverse the route segment from New Haven CT to Providence RI. The Northeast regional using a City Sprinter locomotive and amfleet coaches take the same Hour and a half.
It’s like trying to drive through midtown Manhattan at rush hour. Doesn’t matter if you’re behind the wheel of a Lamborghini Hurucan, Cadillac Escalade V, or a fully loaded garbage truck. Potential top speed is irrelevant if you don’t have the conditions in place to allow for you to accelerate to it.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts discussing units of measure have been moved to a thread on that subject at:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/metric-and-imperial-units-discussion.85821/
Please continue discussion of units of measure in this new thread, and leave this thread for discussing the CTDOT rail car order placed with Alstom.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation...

 

[Tlcooper44]

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/08/12/connecticut-pays-double-for-substandard-trains/
An interesting take as per usual.

 

[daybeers]

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/08/12/connecticut-pays-double-for-substandard-trains/
An interesting take as per usual.

I agree with the substance of the article, though: $5.25m is absolutely ridiculous. I'm also quite worried of teething problems with this untested model that's based on an unpowered EMU compared to the years of service the Ventures would have by the time these see revenue service. IMO CTDOT needs to explain this ludicrous price.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

IMO CTDOT needs to explain this ludicrous price.

Yes, please a breakdown of why and how this price. It might be something quite simple, but yes I do want to see the breakdown.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2023/08/12/connecticut-pays-double-for-substandard-trains/
An interesting take as per usual.

Interesting article that asks very good questions. I have a sinking feeling the price maybe due to the fact these coaches are essentially unpowered multiple units, being used as hauled coaches behind a locomotive. I do have to ask, besides Shore Line East, does Connecticut have any future electrification plans out there?

If so, then coaches being hauled for a number of years before conversion to multiple units isn't exactly a new idea. Now if there isn't any future electrification plans, then I'm confused as everyone else as to why CDOT are acquiring new coaches that are more expensive than anything out there on the market.