CONO crew pulled out of service ????

[jis]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

I can understand your position as a pax completely... however....if the crew makes the slightest mis-cue in announcing that they have violated a rule/s then they can hang themselves. It's kinda like when you were a kid and your momma told you not to go to Sallys and you spent the whole day with her~ you're busting at the seams when you get home but don't need to tell anyone. I've defended men in investigations that wished they had sewn their lips shut at the site of a rules infraction. Granted, a short announcement to the effect that a new crew is on its way to relieve the present crew is not unwarranted.I just don't think the T&E crew would want to answer the same question 200 times, "Why are you being relieved?"

Indeed there can be all kinds of legal ramifications of talking too much or disclosing too much publicly under such circumstances. Since the short announcement was made, I really see no reason whatsoever to throw a tantrum over this. If you must know, get yourself a scanner and hope that they say something over it, which they may or may not. But I am with AlanB and had8ley on this.

 

[grounded flyboy]

Sounds like we need to get the govt involved. The FAA set a standard last year that any aircraft that set on the taxiway for three hours and one minute was subject to a fine of $28,000 per pax. As a result, thru this winter travel season there has been a record (by a factor of 10) number of cancellations at the gate for air carriers.

So, do you want to be a few hours late or not get on the train at all??

We were all born 100 years too late... at the turn of the last century, if you got in your wagon on the east coast in the spring you prayed to make it to the west coast by the fall. Technology is a wonderful thing !!

PS... I agree with most commentors... civility goes a long way.

 

[mwmnp]

running through a banner test,

What's that?

It's a rule test designed to make sure the operating crew is alert to all signs and signals along the tracks and is able to stop, as required under operating rulebooks, within half the range of vision if moving at restricted speed on a main track.

Generally to perform the test on a main track with signals, the supervisor in charge of conducting the test will coordinate with the dispatcher to purposely make a signal display an aspect that makes the train slow down to restricted speed. Farther on down the track, the supervisor will have placed a banner that the crew will have to stop short of in order to pass the test. To make the test "more effective," the banner is usually placed in a location where visibility is limited, such as around a curve, or the test is conducted in times of low visibility, like a foggy night. If the crew is unable to stop short of the banner or has to use emergency brakes to do so, the test is considered a failure, and they will be pulled off the train.

This is one of many rules tests mandated by individual railroad policies and the Federal Railroad Administration. Any freight or passenger train operating crew is subject to be tested at any time while performing their duties.

 

[rrdude]

running through a banner test,

What's that?

It's a rule test designed to make sure the operating crew is alert to all signs and signals along the tracks and is able to stop, as required under operating rulebooks, within half the range of vision if moving at restricted speed on a main track.

Generally to perform the test on a main track with signals, the supervisor in charge of conducting the test will coordinate with the dispatcher to purposely make a signal display an aspect that makes the train slow down to restricted speed. Farther on down the track, the supervisor will have placed a banner that the crew will have to stop short of in order to pass the test. To make the test "more effective," the banner is usually placed in a location where visibility is limited, such as around a curve, or the test is conducted in times of low visibility, like a foggy night. If the crew is unable to stop short of the banner or has to use emergency brakes to do so, the test is considered a failure, and they will be pulled off the train.

This is one of many rules tests mandated by individual railroad policies and the Federal Railroad Administration. Any freight or passenger train operating crew is subject to be tested at any time while performing their duties.

Jay Hadley, just curious, how many "banner test" did you experience while hogging?

 

[had8ley]

running through a banner test,

What's that?

It's a rule test designed to make sure the operating crew is alert to all signs and signals along the tracks and is able to stop, as required under operating rulebooks, within half the range of vision if moving at restricted speed on a main track.

Generally to perform the test on a main track with signals, the supervisor in charge of conducting the test will coordinate with the dispatcher to purposely make a signal display an aspect that makes the train slow down to restricted speed. Farther on down the track, the supervisor will have placed a banner that the crew will have to stop short of in order to pass the test. To make the test "more effective," the banner is usually placed in a location where visibility is limited, such as around a curve, or the test is conducted in times of low visibility, like a foggy night. If the crew is unable to stop short of the banner or has to use emergency brakes to do so, the test is considered a failure, and they will be pulled off the train.

This is one of many rules tests mandated by individual railroad policies and the Federal Railroad Administration. Any freight or passenger train operating crew is subject to be tested at any time while performing their duties.

Jay Hadley, just curious, how many "banner test" did you experience while hogging?

Just once and it wasn't by my own RR officials. The NS (Norfolk Southern) clowns had East Bridge Jct. throw a red block on us at the foot of the bridge eastbound.I got a 663 (b) from the Tower~ (authority to pass a red signal at restricted speed) They were hiding in the turn out about 100 yards east of East Bridge Tower and didn't put the banner up until we were about 5 car lengths away. The jerks claimed they could test any train coming or going to the NS even if it wasn't on their tracks (and it wasn't).Oh, I really wanted to dump these idiots in Needles, CA in about mid-August to look for one of "their" trains. It only took the conductor an hour and a half to walk the 178 car train that went into emergency when I drew down a full service application. We had the entire bridge blocked and Central Avenue~ a very busy street. Funny thing~ they never pulled that test again to my knowledge at that location. Maybe # 2 sitting right behind us had something to do with it. :lol:

 

[train person]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

And even if they tell you 'exactly' why the train is stuck, what are you going to do with that information? As long as someone tells you the approximate length of delay, and a general reason why, thats all you need to know.

You ain't exactly going to crew the train yourself are you?

 

[PaulM]

Since when does "you could have done better" constitute compensation? I understand "they did poorly" but to say "it was adequate but I think theres room for improvement" does NOT entitle you to a fifty buck voucher every time you call.

My rule is I call when it's a serious mechanical problem. Bean counters, not just Amtrak's, are great when it comes to calculating material and labor costs, but are clueless when it comes to the costs of poor quality, reliability, customer service, etc. If the customer doesn't complain, they never will improve.

Although I've never knowingly encounter a 4 hour delay caused by rule violations, and don't expect to in the future, I've added them to my list just in case.

 

[The Irony]

I'm seeing some irony in the calls for civility and manners on this board, on the part of Amtrak staff - which I agree with - where a good many threads reach a point where they go astray from the original topic and many uncivil comments are made --- just sayin'

 

[had8ley]

I'm seeing some irony in the calls for civility and manners on this board, on the part of Amtrak staff - which I agree with - where a good many threads reach a point where they go astray from the original topic and many uncivil comments are made --- just sayin'

Most people I know who try to stir the pot start off with "just sayin'~ are you one of those ???

 

[Trogdor]

Most people I know who try to stir the pot start off with "just sayin'

Ummm........okay. Doesn't make any sense, but, okay.

 

[just sayin']

Not stirring anything - merely an observation - usually one sees "just sayin'" at the end of sentences, really

 

[Michael061282]

Charm school would be overloaded if Amtrak ever signed up those in need...

While not denying that there is still some dead wood out there, frankly I've been seeing some general improvement in the conductors over the last year or so. I just had a fabulous conductor last Tuesday on Acela. He was outstanding, made all the required announcements and as he lifted each ticket in the first class car, he made it a point to actually look at each ticket.

He'd then say things like "Your ticket looks perfect Alan. Thank you. Enjoy your trip." or "Everything looks in order Alan. Thank you for riding with us today." But he made it a point to address each person by using their first name by reading it off the ticket as he pulled it.

Thats why everyone should take the time to email Amtrak whenever you have a really good employee, not just when you have a crappy one. The actually seem to listen and will follow up.

With a couple of notable exceptions, (Saiid on the Empire Builder and the Blue Pen **** LSO on the SWC are you reading this?), every single crew member I've had the last 5 or 6 years has been outstanding. Even on a few VERY late trains with some mightily annoyed passengers who aren't in the mood to be nice.. they've all been great.

 

[had8ley]

Most people I know who try to stir the pot start off with "just sayin'

Ummm........okay. Doesn't make any sense, but, okay.

It makes a lot of sense to me...we had a Superintendent who didn't know how to communicate with his men. When he wanted something done he didn't know how to come right out with it. He would always say, "just sayin" at the end of most sentences implying he wanted something done. Don't hear it up north so maybe it's just a southern expression.

 

[jis]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

And even if they tell you 'exactly' why the train is stuck, what are you going to do with that information? As long as someone tells you the approximate length of delay, and a general reason why, thats all you need to know.

You ain't exactly going to crew the train yourself are you?

Ah! but I bet there are some hapless railfans who at least fantasize about offering their services as a substitute engineer to rescue the train from its plight and then be received in the White House for the special hero award :giggle:

 

[Partyman]

Juts got home from riding the Cono back from New Orleans. Everything went smooth this go around. Only a few minutes late at a few stops, nothing major. And I think that was mostly taking time for passengers getting off and on. Every one of the crew I ran into was very pleasant. The conductor said hello to me on 2 different occasions. The sleeper attendant was outstanding. The dinning car staff was very accommodating. I really enjoyed myself this go around.

 

[chandj]

Hey, at least the conductor on my last trip on the Pennsylvanian had the decency to just sleep quielty in the lounge!

Once many years ago I was on a train crossing Canada east to west and the train was stopped on the track for several hours because a group of Mohawk people were baracading the tracks in protest (not against the train operator--highways were blocked as well). No one told us anything until they thought they would have to get us off the train to bus us to an airport for a fly-around. We might not have had a "right" to know, but especially in a potentially dangerous situation, it would have been nice to feel informed.

 

[haolerider]

Screw the You don't have a right to know. IF THE ****ING TRAIN IS STUCK IN A SIDING FOR 4 HOURS I WANT TO KNOW WTF IS GOING ON. QUIT IGNORING US. WE PAY YOUR SALARY. IF WE QUIT RIDING AMTRAK YOU'RE OUT OF A JOB.

I am constantly amazed at this naive idea that Amtrak employees are your employees and that if you quit riding the train they are out of a job! They are no more your employees than the IRS are your employees or any other government funded department of business.

Should you expect a polite and civle response to a question - Yes, by all means, but the vulgar comments above are not civil. You should be held to the same standards when commenting on this board as you expect from the Amtrak employees. Perhaps there is a reason you don't receive a civil response - it may be in the way you ask a question or demand an answer. You get what you give!

 

[njdon]

Whether it's a right or not I think the train crews would find passengers much less demanding if they simply let folks know what's going on. I'm not sure why Amtrak or any other public conveyance would not have learned that fundamental lesson in passenger satisfaction by now.

 

[AlanB]

Whether it's a right or not I think the train crews would find passengers much less demanding if they simply let folks know what's going on. I'm not sure why Amtrak or any other public conveyance would not have learned that fundamental lesson in passenger satisfaction by now.

First, let me preface things by saying that many crews are actually quite good at making announcement when things go wrong. Yes, there are some that simply don't, but at least in my experience there are more crews that will make announcements than crews that don't.

Now, there are many reasons why you may not hear an announcement right away or even with some regularity. For example, if the train has just hit someone, the conductors' first job is to administer what first aid they can assuming that the victim(s) are still alive. Can't make announcements when you're standing on the road bed. And of course as already noted, they're actually not allowed to tell you many details other than the fact that the train has hit something. Or in the case of what started this topic, if the crew has been relieved of duty, they they really aren't allowed to do anything.

Finally, there are some crews that won't make announcements simply because they know that no matter what they do, some will still not be satisfied. They could make an announcement every 5 minutes and some pax just won't be happy no matter what, until the trains starts moving. So they figure that it's just better to hide than face the angry mob. Personally I disagree with that idea, as it's better to keep most pax calm even knowing that some will still give you a hard time. But it is what it is.

I recall a few years back when a badly delayed Silver train got into NY and the reporters all interviewed about 4 or 5 people who had nothing but horror stories to tell. They never heard an announcement, never saw anyone from Amtrak, blah, blah, blah.

One enterprising reporter looking for the real story, managed to interview at least 6 people who all said that they heard regular announcements and while they weren't happy that they were late, they never felt abandoned by the crew or in the dark. Clearly the negative reviews were a case of people either looking for the media spotlight and/or trying to set themselves up for compensation.

 

[Ryan]

Taking that a step further, then there's the people that will complain that the announcements are *too* frequent, reporting the same information over and over again (because there's no new information to give).

You really can't win, people are ALWAYS going to find something to complain about (which, before I get accused of just being an Amtrak apologist, doesn't excuse all crews or claim that a perfect job is done every time).

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

On the CZ two years ago UP was having some signal issues and one of the ACs got on the horn trying to explain that trains have "traffic lights" and said we could not go until we got a green signal.

Ten minutes later the same AC got on again to explain that it was the host RRs responsibility to fix the signals.

Another ten minutes later he explained that the crew couldn't get out and fix them.

We got moving for about an hour and got stuck at another red signal. He got on an explained the same thng had happened and asked for patience.

Ater ten minutes he explained that he would be sitting in the SSL with "over 500 pages worth of manuals and instructions" for operating the train for anybody who would like to see it for themselves.

We were only down about two hours... I left my sleeper to go to the lounge for a snack and low and behold the table side was full of people griping and groaning about how illl informed thery were, about how late they were going to be, and how they were going to miss their connections in Chicago... And we were just out of Glenwood Springs, CO.

Normally I like to be forthcoming to unknowledgable pax, but this was just a tinderbox of angry pax who had no right to be angry. The AC was polite and calm, until his fifth announcement.

 

[transit54]

Back when I worked at JetBlue, there was an internal policy that during any delay or disruption, passengers were to be given an update every 15 minutes, even if that update was there was no new information. While there are certainly reasons why the crew would be unable to make an announcement (i.e. they are outside the train dealing with the situation) I generally think its good policy to make frequent announcements on a regular basis.

That being said, the only time I ever suffered a major delay on Amtrak (Vermonter striking a person north of Springfield, MA) the crew provided us very frequent updates throughout the entire process and kept us very well informed. I ended up sending Amtrak a letter complementing the crew's efforts to keep us informed.

 

[nferr]

They announced the operating crew was being replaced for a rules infraction. I think that's pretty much telling you what's going on.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

They announced the operating crew was being replaced for a rules infraction. I think that's pretty much telling you what's going on.

But not till after sitting forever not going no where. Then when the 2nd crew got on they got hostile and down right rude to the passengers when they asked what happened. If amtrak wants to grow tell the employees to grow up.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

They announced the operating crew was being replaced for a rules infraction. I think that's pretty much telling you what's going on.

But not till after sitting forever not going no where. Then when the 2nd crew got on they got hostile and down right rude to the passengers when they asked what happened. If amtrak wants to grow tell the employees to grow up.

You weren't there, you are getting information second hand. You have zero right to ascribe terms like "hostile" to these people.