Cross-border Food Service

[TML]

I recently took the Maple Leaf on a trip to Canada, and I discovered that they use the American Amtrak menu while in the US, but the Canadian VIA Rail menu while in Canada. My best guess is that this is done to avoid potential issues with food crossing the border. What happens on food service cars for other cross-border trains (Adirondack, Cascades)? Do these trains use the same menu from start to finish, or is there a "food swap" at the border, or is the food service car inactive while in Canada?

 

[Bob Dylan]

The reason the Maple Leaf changes out Food and Beverages ( and Crews) at the stop in Niagara Falls,ON is that even though the Train is using Amtrak equipment it becomes a VIA Train from there to Toronto with a couple of stops in Canada.

The Adirondack and Cascades are Amtrak Trains for the entire Route, and do not stop in Canada until Vancouver and at the Border upon return.

 

[Triley]

And the food does cross the border. It stays in the refrigerators, all supplies are locked up, and the LSA gets off the train before ViaRail's attendant loads their stock on the train. This is why their stock sits out on the counter, unrefrigerated.

 

[the_traveler]

Also, since the ML becomes a VIA train, it follows VIA's rules for the café. Amtrak has an exclusive contract with Pepsi to sell Pepsi products (no Coke), while VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke to see Coke products. So on the ML, you can buy Pepsi while the train is in the US but not Coke and Coke while the train is in Canada but not Pepsi.

As said, the Adirondack is operated by Amtrak all the way to Montréal and the Cascades is operated by Amtrak all the way to Vancouver. Thus, Pepsi is available all the way.

 

[dogbert617]

Also, since the ML becomes a VIA train, it follows VIA's rules for the café. Amtrak has an exclusive contract with Pepsi to sell Pepsi products (no Coke), while VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke to see Coke products. So on the ML, you can buy Pepsi while the train is in the US but not Coke and Coke while the train is in Canada but not Pepsi.

As said, the Adirondack is operated by Amtrak all the way to Montréal and the Cascades is operated by Amtrak all the way to Vancouver. Thus, Pepsi is available all the way.

That's funny to think about! I never knew you theoretically could get Coke or Pepsi, depending on what part of the Maple Leaf train(US or Canada) you're riding.

 

[railiner]

That is funny....I could just imagine a scenario from the "cola wars" days....Pepsi is publicizing their nationwide exclusivity aboard Amtrak trains, and then Coke runs an add showing Coke being served aboard the Maple Leaf (without saying anything about it being a VIA train, just letting the viewer assume it's Amtrak...

 

[the_traveler]

Well, on the Downeaster (which is supplied by the sponsoring group and not Amtrak) they serve Coke but not Pepsi!

 

[jis]

One way to handle the confusion is to brand things properly. For example, Indian Railways has a subsidiary corporation that provides Customer Facing Services like food service on board and online reservation service etc. The outfit is called IRCTC. There are trains on which food service is provided by IRCTC and there are other trains that are served by other contractors. These may be two different trains serving substantially the same route even, and there is some semblance of competition in quality of service and such (e.g. the Howrah and Sealdah Rajdhani's are served by two different service providers). The information is available in the way the service on the train is branded.

In the case of Amtrak there would be Amtrak Departmental Food Service, VIA Food Service and in case of some state sponsored trains, whoever happens to be the contract food service provided food service. At present this information is rather obfuscated, and is known only by those who dig a bit deeper into it.

 

[zephyr17]

Since both the Adirondack and the Cascades are wholly Amtrak operated trains, Amtrak does all the food service. The Adirondack only has one intermediate station stop in Canada (St. Lambert), and the Cascades has none.

One interesting thing about the Cascades at Vancouver is it opens for boarding like an hour before departure since they do US Immigration Pre-clearance in Vancouver and it takes awhile to process everyone. The cafe is open during that time, the only Amtrak train that I know of that the cafe is open for business during boarding. However, they only do food sales and no liquor as long as they are sitting, since they don't have a BC liquor license. However, once the wheels start rolling, you can buy liquor.

 

[railiner]

The early Amtrak, Pacific International, IIRC used to make a station stop at New Westminster, for international traffic only...( no one carried whose entire ride was in BC...same restriction at St. Lambert, PQ)...

 

[dogbert617]

Since both the Adirondack and the Cascades are wholly Amtrak operated trains, Amtrak does all the food service. The Adirondack only has one intermediate station stop in Canada (St. Lambert), and the Cascades has none.

One interesting thing about the Cascades at Vancouver is it opens for boarding like an hour before departure since they do US Immigration Pre-clearance in Vancouver and it takes awhile to process everyone. The cafe is open during that time, the only Amtrak train that I know of that the cafe is open for business during boarding. However, they only do food sales and no liquor as long as they are sitting, since they don't have a BC liquor license. However, once the wheels start rolling, you can buy liquor.

Interesting, I didn't realize they did US immigration pre-clearance in Vancouver, for the Cascades trains servicing there going south. Is the same thing done, for the Adirondock that leaves the Montreal station to go south to NYC? I could see if they don't do pre-clearance there, since it has one intermediate stop in Canada before the US/Canada border.

 

[the_traveler]

At this time, the Adirondack does not have pre-clearance in Montreal, but they are working on getting an agreement set up and the space set up. Once in place, the intermediate stop in Canada (actually a suburb of Montreal) will be eliminated.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The early Amtrak, Pacific International, IIRC used to make a station stop at New Westminster, for international traffic only...( no one carried whose entire ride was in BC...same restriction at St. Lambert, PQ)...

Here’s the Amtrak timetable for October 1972 just after the Pacific International was inaugurated and it shows stops at New Westminster and White Rock BC….but nothing about ‘no local traffic carried’ so I wonder if you could buy an Amtrak ticket between Vancouver and those two points?

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19721029&item=0057

Timetable says CN Station in New Westminster but it would have been the Burlington Northern (xGN) Station used as it was all BN track used except for the last halfmile into the CN (now Pacific Central Station) in Vancouver.

Even CN’s {i]Super Continental[/i] used BN (xGN) track from the Fraser River Bridge into Downtown Vancouver.

 

[user 1215]

Also, since the ML becomes a VIA train, it follows VIA's rules for the café. Amtrak has an exclusive contract with Pepsi to sell Pepsi products (no Coke), while VIA has an exclusive contract with Coke to see Coke products. So on the ML, you can buy Pepsi while the train is in the US but not Coke and Coke while the train is in Canada but not Pepsi.

As said, the Adirondack is operated by Amtrak all the way to Montréal and the Cascades is operated by Amtrak all the way to Vancouver. Thus, Pepsi is available all the way.

That's funny to think about! I never knew you theoretically could get Coke or Pepsi, depending on what part of the Maple Leaf train(US or Canada) you're riding.

Actually, they take away all your burgers and coke and replace them with poutain and beer!

My daughter's biological grandfather told me a story once about how in the pre-Amtrak days in the South, he was drinking a beer. An OBS came by and took his beer. Being from Camden, NJ, he about clocked the dude. But it was explained that they were entering a dry county and they couldn't have beer. When they returned to a wet county, a fresh, cold beer was returned to him, gratis. He figured if he knew the route better, he could have an endless single can of beer!

 

[railiner]

The early Amtrak, Pacific International, IIRC used to make a station stop at New Westminster, for international traffic only...( no one carried whose entire ride was in BC...same restriction at St. Lambert, PQ)...

Heres the Amtrak timetable for October 1972 just after the Pacific International was inaugurated and it shows stops at New Westminster and White Rock BC.but nothing about no local traffic carried so I wonder if you could buy an Amtrak ticket between Vancouver and those two points?
http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19721029&item=0057

Timetable says CN Station in New Westminster but it would have been the Burlington Northern (xGN) Station used as it was all BN track used except for the last halfmile into the CN (now Pacific Central Station) in Vancouver.

Even CNs {i]Super Continental[/i] used BN (xGN) track from the Fraser River Bridge into Downtown Vancouver.

Now you've got me wondering about that... you're correct, there does not seem to be any traffic restriction...at least, not mentioned in that timetable...White Rock and Blaine were the actual customs locations... not sure about those, either.

Too bad about them eliminating St. Lambert later, as it could allow connection between the Adirondack and Ocean in the case of a late train that would just misconduct at Montreal...

I suppose there is only a traffic restriction if the 'host country' does not have any or limited service at those points.

The CP Atlantic Ltd had no restriction's across Maine...the Penn Central had no restriction's across Ontario, etc.

When the Adirondack entered Montreal on the CP route to Windsor Station, not sure about Westmount or Montreal West...did it stop and/or handle local traffic?

 

[jis]

Adirondack on CP initially did allow passengers between two Canadian points. But starting sometime in 1977 all stations in Canada were changed to discharge only northbound and receive only southbound.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19770501&item=0029

BTW, it also ran through Mechanicville between Albany and Saratoga. In 77 it started using Turboliners and in the process lost the full Diner and Dome Coach that it started with..

 

[the_traveler]

Yes prior to 77, just on the east side of the Hudson, it did a backup move from the mainline X-NYC tracks to the D&H tracks in Albany thru Menands, Cohoes, Watervliet and Mechanicsville. since 77, it was rerouted to eliminate those stops and now goes to Schenectady before heading north to Saratoga.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Here's the 2nd Adirondack timetable in Nov '74 and Montreal West was receive only s/b and discharge only n/b

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19741115&item=0033

 

[railiner]

Love to look at those old tt's, and reminisce about the early years...did you catch the notes on the adjacent panel for the Montrealer? "All night light meals in the Pub car", and thru sleeper from Montreal to Miami....

Not mentioned were the neat D&H Alco PA's or Baldwin Sharknose locomotives that powered the Adirondack north of Albany...

 

[the_traveler]

I really miss the PA's and the bubble top domes on the Adirondack!

 

[TML]

So, if my guess is correct, the International train (Chicago-Toronto) also had a cross-border food swap back when it was in operation?

 

[NS VIA Fan]

I really miss the PA's........

 

[NS VIA Fan]

........and the bubble top domes on the Adirondack!

CPR Skyline Domes leased by the D&H in 1974 for the Adirondack.....being added here at Albany-Rensseiear for the run to Montreal. They're still in service today on VIA's Canadian

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Love to look at those old tt's, and reminisce about the early years...

The inaugural Adirondack Timetable:

 

[NS VIA Fan]

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