Derailment of Cascades #501, DuPont WA, 2017-12-18

[Thirdrail7]

Odd that the conductor in the cab is suing... He should have had his timetable out and watching the mileposts and known that the curve was coming... He also should have seen the 2 speed limit signs from the cab.

Im not blaming him... But for him to sue seems a bit surprising.

After all, he was familiarizing himself with the route, right? Not clear from the article, but he seemed to be a conductor in training as opposed to a functional conductor. In other words, he wasn't in the cab with the duties of having operational control of the train.

Correct. He wasn't qualified on the territory. he was in the process of qualifying the territory. It is the equivalent of me putting you on the head end Crescent-Zephyr and expecting you to keep a sharp watch. You are unfamiliar so you're not going to be particularly helpful.

Seriously, Amtraks Unions need to get their heads out of their keisters and ensure that all OBS and T&E Crews are covered in case of on the Job Injuries in the the next contracts!

It is an old federal law...I want to say FELA?...All the unions have lists of "railroad" lawyers that are familiar with the law and dealing with the railroads. It is the same for freight....

Indeed, and I'm sure the companies wouldn't embrace Bob Dylan's idea to provide workman's comp, disability coverage. Hell, there are plenty of departments that don't have any sort of sick time/benefits.

 

[greatcats]

The qualifying conductor would have been on the clock, being paid for his time. So this was certainly an on duty injury. We have heard very little about the engineer, unlike the Philadelphia wreck where he was all over the news. The circumstances of the qualifying procedures have sounded pretty suspect to me. Having worked with train and engine crews back east, I feel terrible for that man.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[user 1215]

Preliminary Report: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/RRD18MR001-prelim.aspx

Interestingly, they haven't been able to interview the conductor or engineer in the cab because of their injuries, yet the conductor was able to file a lawsuit against the engineer? Or was the conductor who filed the suit the one in the train?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

What I find more disturbing is the Conductor has not yet made statements to NTSB due to his injuries !!

yet he has talked to his lawyer and made statements to be able to file a lawsuit ?????

something is wrong here.

 

[dlagrua]

Regardless, three lives were lost,there were numerous injuries and millions of dollars of equipment was destroyed. Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it. There were signs clearly showing the speed limit and if those in the cab lost track of that (or get distracted) they should have slowed down to establish and understand their position.

 

[Ryan]

Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it.

False. Sometimes, bad things just happen. We'll have to follow the data to see if this is one of those cases or not.

 

[Blackwolf]

Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it.

False. Sometimes, bad things just happen. We'll have to follow the data to see if this is one of those cases or not.

Agreed. The whole Witch Hunt fixation in the United States with every bad thing that happens is a severe cultural flaw.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it.

False. Sometimes, bad things just happen. We'll have to follow the data to see if this is one of those cases or not.

Moreso, this could also be the result of a variety of different negligent actions by more than one person, resulting in no one person being responsible. Which frankly is almost always the case.

 

[west point]

NTSB has often listed a chain of events that if any one had not occurred then accident would not have happened. Prime example was EAL accident into the everglades with a nine event chain.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I think they are working on a flow chart to ascertain what happened. This is rough draft:

 

[Ryan]

That's not a flow chart, this is a flow chart.

 

[jis]

The flowchart should really focus on understanding what happened, rather than focusing on fault assignment

 

[Thirdrail7]

That's not a flow chart, this is a flow chart.

 

[Seaboard92]

That's not a flow chart, this is a flow chart.

I think that explains a lot of the mechanical crews I've worked with.

 

[Seaboard92]

That's not a flow chart, this is a flow chart.

I think that explains a lot of the mechanical crews I've worked with.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually I think that is the decision making flowchart for most American corporations.

 

[Dan O]

May be other mitigating factors but going 78-80 mph in a 30 mph zone is hard to overlook. Seems like engineer/conductor will bear some of the blame.

 

[Acela150]

Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it.

I have stayed out of this topic for many reasons. And Dennis' comment is the top reason along with the endless speculation of why it happened.

Dennis I'm directing this at you. You are not a member of the NTSB. Until you are, don't go pointing fingers. You don't know a single thing about what was happening in that cab, or anything relating to the condition of the train. And guess what.. No one else here does. Unless you were in the cab at the stick of the train, zip it. You have a history of saying stupid ****. And you never learn from it. As of late I've been trying to keep my nose clean on AU. But this is one where someone says something stupid and I can't let it go.

Yes. The train had an overspeed condition. Could this have been prevented. I'll let the NTSB decide that. Should have PTC been installed on the route. Yes. Why it wasn't, I'll never understand.

 

[NW cannonball]

Someone was negligent and must take responsibility for it.

I have stayed out of this topic for many reasons. And Dennis' comment is the top reason along with the endless speculation of why it happened.

Dennis I'm directing this at you. You are not a member of the NTSB. Until you are, don't go pointing fingers. You don't know a single thing about what was happening in that cab, or anything relating to the condition of the train. And guess what.. No one else here does. Unless you were in the cab at the stick of the train, zip it. You have a history of saying stupid ****. And you never learn from it. As of late I've been trying to keep my nose clean on AU. But this is one where someone says something stupid and I can't let it go.

Yes. The train had an overspeed condition. Could this have been prevented. I'll let the NTSB decide that. Should have PTC been installed on the route. Yes. Why it wasn't, I'll never understand.

Totally agree

 

[PerRock]

Should have PTC been installed on the route. Yes. Why it wasn't, I'll never understand.

Actually PTC was installed on that route, it just wasn't turned on. Sound Transit stated that they were having some difficulties with it.

Now why they went ahead and ran the service without it on.....

peter

 

[jis]

Even if it was turned on it would not have made a difference, since Amtrak equipment is not setup to use PTC on that route yet. Amtrak does not use active PTC on the rest of the route either. PTC is used by freight trains on the BNSF route.

 

[KmH]

Everyone here that has read the NTSB's 1/4/18 prliminary report linked to in post #478 know some about what happened in the cab, the train speed, the weather conditions and some other details.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Actually, everything I read Inc that report creates more questions, and besides knowing that the engineer was upright at impact, answers none.

 

[TinCan782]

Everyone here that has read the NTSB's 1/4/18 prliminary report linked to in post #476 know some about what happened in the cab, the train speed, the weather conditions and some other details.

I see the link within post #478

 

[KmH]

Thanks. Changed it.