Diner-lounge 37000

[Trogdor]

Again, if Amtrak is able to do what certain managers want to do with the diner-lounge concept, then this shouldn't be a problem. If the train is crowded to the point where you'd have an overflow of people in the car (either for lounging or for eating), Amtrak can add a second car. During periods when travel is lighter, a single car will suffice and still be able to accommodate most or all of the people that want to spend time in the lounge.

Also, since the busy periods for dining are around meal times, then passengers would be able to take advantage of the car outside of these meal times for lounging purposes. Or, if they are so inclined, they could order something off the all-day menu and have an excuse to stay even longer.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Or just go ahead and install parking meters at each seat, where you have to insert $5 every 30 minutes, which is what that suggestion amounts to. Well, probably more than $5. That is not a sightseer lounge. It's an attempt to extort more than the published fare for the privilege of enjoying what has always been one of the primary advantages of train travel - for everyone who has paid the fare - the advantage of having a panoramic view of America, from ground level, not from 40,000 feet, and to meet and converse with his/her fellow travelers, at their leisure, while so doing.

 

[Guest]

Or just go ahead and install parking meters at each seat, where you have to insert $5 every 30 minutes, which is what that suggestion amounts to. Well, probably more than $5.

I can make a bag of chips and a soda last 3 hours. I like that idea better than some meter that costs more than $5.00 for 30 minutes and I don't even get anything to eat or drink.

 

[gswager]

We already have two classes- sleeper and coach. We should add another class- sightseer class that comes with snack bar, not dining.

 

[Guest]

We already have two classes- sleeper and coach. We should add another class- sightseer class that comes with snack bar, not dining.

[cher] Now, that's a really good idea! [/cher]

 

[rtabern]

Ok, I had to finally check this thing out myself -- even if it involved driving from Chicago to South Bend... riding the Capitol SOB-CHI... taking a commuter train from CHI back to SOB, and finally driving back to Chicago. But hey, I'm a railfan, and it was sooo worth it!

Check out my new pictures and review from riding on the diner/lounge Saturday morning 12/23.

www.rtabern.com/amtrak-29a.html

 

[Guest_Avia_*]

The best thing Amtrak could do to convert the Lounges to revenue cars is to turn them into premium seating type cars. Seats 3-across that could recline for sleeping purposes. Charge more per seat and market the service between a sleeping car room and regular coach! To convert to a diner/lounge is a waste of money.

 

[gswager]

Ok, I had to finally check this thing out myself -- even if it involved driving from Chicago to South Bend... riding the Capitol SOB-CHI... taking a commuter train from CHI back to SOB, and finally driving back to Chicago. But hey, I'm a railfan, and it was sooo worth it!
Check out my new pictures and review from riding on the diner/lounge Saturday morning 12/23.

www.rtabern.com/amtrak-29a.html

Thanks for explaining about why there are two different tables! Glad that you made a history!

 

[MrFSS]

As he did with his Beech Grove pictures, rtabern has allowed me to post direct in the thread, the picture from his web site showing the new car layout as he experienced it on the CL.

 

[printman2000]

The more pictures I see, the more I dislike this car. The pics with people sitting in the "booths" really disturbs me. The seating looks really awkward and uncomfortable.

 

[AlanB]

The more pictures I see, the more I dislike this car. The pics with people sitting in the "booths" really disturbs me. The seating looks really awkward and uncomfortable.

While I note that no one who has been in the car has so far reported that the seats are uncomfortable, I too have to agree that from the pictures they look like the most awkward and uncomfortable seats around.

 

[Guest]

The seats actually look quite comfortable with a maximum capacity of only 2 persons per booth. Otherwise, it'll be a real knee knocker! :lol:

 

[Guest]

I wonder how often you will get 5 people not from the same party to sit at a lounge table voluntarily?

 

[Guest]

One specific problem that hasn't been mentioned yet- the little oval tables on the inward-facing booths are very exposed to traffic up and down the aisles. A lot of drinks and snacks will be spilled when folks walk past, swinging their arms and toting shoulder bags. I can't recall ever eating a meal facing a traffic aisle on the back side of the table. And I wonder if there won't be a queasiness factor for some to eat while staring sideways out the window?

I like some of the styling details here, but the overall concept stinks. It's neither a diner nor a lounge, but a half-baked hybrid of the two. This may be the last straw that makes me abandon Amtrak and start saving for that trip on VIA or the Alaska RR.

 

[gaspeamtrak]

One specific problem that hasn't been mentioned yet- the little oval tables on the inward-facing booths are very exposed to traffic up and down the aisles. A lot of drinks and snacks will be spilled when folks walk past, swinging their arms and toting shoulder bags. I can't recall ever eating a meal facing a traffic aisle on the back side of the table. And I wonder if there won't be a queasiness factor for some to eat while staring sideways out the window?
I like some of the styling details here, but the overall concept stinks. It's neither a diner nor a lounge, but a half-baked hybrid of the two. This may be the last straw that makes me abandon Amtrak and start saving for that trip on VIA or the Alaska RR.

Good luck!!! I hope you can afford Via's out of this world fares :angry: :angry: for the Canadian!!!...

 

[rtabern]

That's a good point about drinks getting knocked over... it didn't happen when I was on it (I'm the one in the pictures posted on page 3 of this topic), but it could easily happen. Look closely at the picture of the chef eating his cereal and milk... someone could easily walk by and knock it over.

I wish there was some way they could just keep the Sightseers on there --- and then take the current configuration and make them all just larger "dining tables". But it wouldn't make much sense them because that wouldn't save much money.

Why not just scrap the idea and just leave things alone?

 

[The Metropolitan]

I would almost think that trapezoidial (sp?) booths / / on one side of the aisle would work better, at say a 15 to 20 degree angle off of perpendicular to the aisle.

The forward facing seat would angle slightly toward the window, while the rear facing seat would angle towards the aisle. Thus, parties of strangers could easily socialize if they pleased, or instead focus their attention on the window scene or rest of the car.

By using the offsetting angle, the booths could be slightly narrower, thus offering a few more inches of space space for the more lounge-like setting on the other side of the aisle.

 

[frychikn]

If Amtrak gets rid of the Sightseer cars they are going to lose some business. Maybe not a lot but some.

and these passengers will be flocking to the airlines or rental cars for their fabulouss sightseer lounges instead? people who ride trains will still ride trains regardless of whether there is a separate place to dine and sightsee.

Well, it depends. Most things people do involve tradeoffs. You take the train from say Chicago to San Francisco, it takes a little over 2 days. To fly it takes a little over four hours. Big difference. The tradeoff is that by taking the train you get to relax and enjoy a lot of nice scenery which you would not be able to on the plane. Take that away and people will opt for the 4 hour flight rather than the 2 day train trip, except for those who are just afraid to fly.

 

[RailThunder]

I would agree with the comments about the lounge tables on the aisle side. Not very practical and more work for the attendant/LSA to keep clean. On the safety side with typical swaying motion of the train and passenger walking dynamics I wouldn't be surprised to see upper thighs and lower hips getting bruised when walking by/passing/letting someone else in the aisle by. The other dilemna is human nature and I'm quite confident there will be times when one passenger takes a whole "5 people" booth to him or herself leaving a family of 5 to try and fit in a two seated one. I can also visualize sleepy coach passengers coming to the car in the middle of the night to lay on the 5 person booth for some "horizontal" rest.

 

[VT Hokie]

It reminds me a lot of the short lived Acela-style Amfleet cafe conversions. Amtrak quickly realized that the standard table seating worked better.

Removing the Sightseer Lounge and trying to combine diner and lounge functions into a single car will be a disaster, imo.

 

[Guest]

I can also visualize sleepy coach passengers coming to the car in the middle of the night to lay on the 5 person booth for some "horizontal" rest.

That already happens anyway. :lol:

 

[Guest]

It reminds me a lot of the short lived Acela-style Amfleet cafe conversions. Amtrak quickly realized that the standard table seating worked better.
Removing the Sightseer Lounge and trying to combine diner and lounge functions into a single car will be a disaster, imo.

Ya, that was stupid of them. Designing a car with the intent to discourage people from using it is asking for problems.

 

[frj1983]

I still wonder:

Why they can't use the old dining cars and just do SDS using them. After all, they have the cars why not use them? It seems to me that a little creative thinking could work out the ways and means of using them with the new SDS service, or perhaps even a little revamping of the kitchen areas to work it out. I'm thinking of the millions being spent, that could have been used to repair cars sitting in the dead line at Beech Grove!

Sigh...OK diatribe off.

 

[AlanB]

I still wonder:
Why they can't use the old dining cars and just do SDS using them. After all, they have the cars why not use them? It seems to me that a little creative thinking could work out the ways and means of using them with the new SDS service, or perhaps even a little revamping of the kitchen areas to work it out. I'm thinking of the millions being spent, that could have been used to repair cars sitting in the dead line at Beech Grove!

Sigh...OK diatribe off.

Because in today's world if you tell a manager to cut costs, most will take that to mean cut labor. Granted labor is one of the biggest costs of doing business in today's world, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other alternatives to cutting costs. Unfortunately though it seems that those put in charge of following Congress' mandate to cut food service costs have mainly focused on "how do we cut staffing", without consideration of other possible alternatives or the possible consequences of their decisions.

 

[frj1983]

I still wonder:

Why they can't use the old dining cars and just do SDS using them. After all, they have the cars why not use them? It seems to me that a little creative thinking could work out the ways and means of using them with the new SDS service, or perhaps even a little revamping of the kitchen areas to work it out. I'm thinking of the millions being spent, that could have been used to repair cars sitting in the dead line at Beech Grove!

Sigh...OK diatribe off.

Because in today's world if you tell a manager to cut costs, most will take that to mean cut labor. Granted labor is one of the biggest costs of doing business in today's world, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other alternatives to cutting costs. Unfortunately though it seems that those put in charge of following Congress' mandate to cut food service costs have mainly focused on "how do we cut staffing", without consideration of other possible alternatives or the possible consequences of their decisions.

While I agree Alan, that most managers would think cost cutting=cutting labor, that's not what I meant and I was probably imprecise in my thoughts. You can only cut labor so much before service begins to suffer and I think that Amtrak reached that point long ago.

Couldn't an SDS type menu be set up that could use the current configuration of an Amtrak diner car? Couldn't hours be increased, prices for meals decreased, portions shrunk, and passengers encouraged to use the diner? I don't see how they can possibly save money if they are spending millions on redoing these cars. Sure, you might have less labor(staff), but it will be a long time before you recapture the money spent on the cars. Meanwhile cars that need repair sit and rust at Beech Grove. Imagine how many cars could have been refurbished and repaired for the same amount of money.

It seems that Amtrak is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face!