Disobedience on Amtrak

[moosejunky99]

Someone opened a door/window on my first amtrak train.. train stopped at Raton, NM and took him off the train.. wait 24hrs at least for next train..

 

[PaTrainFan]

There's a reason it's known by some as Pennsyltucky.

Central PA is more like Kentucky culturally than like Philly or Pittsburgh. My daughter and her family live about five miles from Hershey Park, and know that all too well. A couple of days ago, an elderly woman in their apartment complex approached my son-in-law and eight year old granddaughter, got right up in her face and screamed at her, "Why are you wearing a mask? Are you stupid??" Betcha Hersheypark has had similar episodes.

Obligatory 'misbehavior (almost) on a train' story: Seen in the Before Times at King St. Station in Seattle: Young guy semi-furtively smoking pot in the station, then arguing with the LEO that he needed to smoke it up before getting on the train. Turns out that argument failed and he was escorted out of the station...

 

[Oreius]

There's a reason it's known by some as Pennsyltucky.

Lebanon County, where I live, is a small but tough little county. In May 2020, we opened our businesses and ended the lockdowns imposed by the governor “before he said so!” We are Pennsylvania’s COVID-19 Champs—the last county to “officially” be taken out of lockdown!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Lebanon County, where I live, is a small but tough little county. In May 2020, we opened our businesses and ended the lockdowns imposed by the governor “before he said so!” We are Pennsylvania’s COVID-19 Champs—the last county to “officially” be taken out of lockdown!

Doesn't sound like much to be proud about!

 

[Barb Stout]

I visited Hersheypark last week, and I saw these signs posted everywhere around the park. I think it’s very sad, but shows the world seems to have become more dangerous.

I can't read the sign: too blurry. What does it say?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I can't read the sign: too blurry. What does it say?

Basically it says Be Kind

 

[Oreius]

Doesn't sound like much to be proud about!

I’m indifferent.

 

[basketmaker]

If I'm not mistaken Local LE have no jurisdiction on Federal Property.

Every time I've seen someone put off a Train ,which is many times in 50 years of riding, the only LE Officers I've seen board a Train are Amtrak Police, or Federal Agents.

All the times Ive observed de-trained passengers being turned over to Local LE Officers occurred off the Train.

Local LEO do board Amtrak trains! A few years ago I booked a quick ride for fun and relaxation from FMG to EMY and back in a roomette. The return the following day. Well that apparently triggers certain computers like Amtrak, NCIS and DEA to that could be a drug/money mule type of itinerary. Well, shortly out of RNO on #5 a gentleman came up behind me as I was taking pics in the lounge car. There was another gentleman with him. Both dressed in t-shirts and shorts. The first guy bent over and quietly ask me if I was Karl which I of course said yes. He raised the bottom of his t-shirt to expose a Reno Police Department badge. I thought that I may have taken a picture or several maybe on the RNO platform of some criminal activity. He explained to me why he was on the train and that was he and his colleagues were part of the Reno PD Drug Interdiction Task Force. And that my itinerary had been flagged. Nicely ask if I would allow them to check my baggage and if could pat me down. I said absolutely and to follow me to the trans/dorm #24 at the front of the train. He and the other officer followed me to my room. They waited until we got there and did a normal frisk of me. Then ask if they could go through my luggage which was fine with me. Only had a small bag and camera bag. They checked it and said thank you. I said no thank you (I've worn "Blue Lives Matter" bracelet for several years) and that I sincerely appreciate what they do. I did ask him if they did this every day and how far do they ride? He said they go out to Truckee and then back on #6 maybe once or twice a week. I did notice that the other two officers did apparently pinch a couple of young men as they escorted them off the train at TRU. Guess is they maybe had some weed on their person. Some these days would be all up in arms for being "profiled" but I think it is a great tool for law enforcement! Gotta say this was one of the best and most memorable Amtrak excursions. Loved it.

 

[basketmaker]

I take great offense when someone acts inappropriately enough to get banned from an airline.

However, if airlines and/or Amtrak are going to start sharing their ban list resulting in people being banned from all of the companies, it seems to me that there should be a time limit for the universal ban. I'd hate to think that someone who does something very stupid in their 20s would not be able to fly or ride the rails later in life. Maybe I am an optimist, but I would like to think that most people would learn from their mistake if they had to undergo a few years of a travel ban. If they don't... then I have no problem with a life-long ban.

Back in the early '70s there was no such thing as a ban travel list on the airlines. I was working the ticket counter for a regional airline (PBA) in Miami. A "gentle"man came up to my counter stating he was on my 2:15 flight. Well it was 2:20 and the flight was already in the air. I apologized and explained to him that he had missed the flight. But that I would be happy to accommodate him on my next flight to Naples at 5:30. Well the tirade began! I did my derndest to get him to calm down but the screaming and yelling continued. It escalated and he finally yelled "if I am not on the 2:15 flight he was coming over the counter and kick my ass". That was enough for me. Picked up the terminal interphone and called the airport police. Within seconds two Dade County Public Safety (now Miami-Dade Police) were standing behind him and he never saw them. Well he raised his hands in a threatening manner and before he knew what hit him he was cuffed. The officers kindly escorted the gentleman off to jail to chill out. I spoke with one of the officers a couple days later and found that the guy had a long history of assault (both verbal and physical). Seven arrests over the last few years and all of them were involving airline ticket counter situations. Some people have some major anger issues!

 

[MARC Rider]

Local LEO do board Amtrak trains! A few years ago I booked a quick ride for fun and relaxation from FMG to EMY and back in a roomette. The return the following day. Well that apparently triggers certain computers like Amtrak, NCIS and DEA to that could be a drug/money mule type of itinerary. Well, shortly out of RNO on #5 a gentleman came up behind me as I was taking pics in the lounge car. There was another gentleman with him. Both dressed in t-shirts and shorts. The first guy bent over and quietly ask me if I was Karl which I of course said yes. He raised the bottom of his t-shirt to expose a Reno Police Department badge. I thought that I may have taken a picture or several maybe on the RNO platform of some criminal activity. He explained to me why he was on the train and that was he and his colleagues were part of the Reno PD Drug Interdiction Task Force. And that my itinerary had been flagged. Nicely ask if I would allow them to check my baggage and if could pat me down. I said absolutely and to follow me to the trans/dorm #24 at the front of the train. He and the other officer followed me to my room. They waited until we got there and did a normal frisk of me. Then ask if they could go through my luggage which was fine with me. Only had a small bag and camera bag. They checked it and said thank you. I said no thank you (I've worn "Blue Lives Matter" bracelet for several years) and that I sincerely appreciate what they do. I did ask him if they did this every day and how far do they ride? He said they go out to Truckee and then back on #6 maybe once or twice a week. I did notice that the other two officers did apparently pinch a couple of young men as they escorted them off the train at TRU. Guess is they maybe had some weed on their person. Some these days would be all up in arms for being "profiled" but I think it is a great tool for law enforcement! Gotta say this was one of the best and most memorable Amtrak excursions. Loved it.

It might be a great tool for a limited number of serious crimes, but it seems like overkill to do this just to nail a few poor schlubs for possession of weed, or even low-level trafficking. This is especially true if it's the Reno PD and they're searching people who are just riding through the city and not getting off and actually being in the city. There was a reason why the Founders of our country put the Fourth Amendment in the Constitution, and it really pains me that the courts have essentially eviscerated it.

 

[MARC Rider]

Local LEO do board Amtrak trains!

True. I was once riding to Virginia, and while we were sitting in DC changing locomotives, two plainclothes gentlemen from the DC Police asked me if a bag in the overhead luggage rack was mine. I said no (because it wasn't), and that seemed to be the end of that, at least for me. Never figured out what they were doing.

 

[Night Ranger]

For several years now, I have referred to the 4th Amendment as the 4th Suggestion because that is what it has become.

It might be a great tool for a limited number of serious crimes, but it seems like overkill to do this just to nail a few poor schlubs for possession of weed, or even low-level trafficking. This is especially true if it's the Reno PD and they're searching people who are just riding through the city and not getting off and actually being in the city. There was a reason why the Founders of our country put the Fourth Amendment in the Constitution, and it really pains me that the courts have essentially eviscerated it.

For several years now, I have been referring to the 4th Amendment as the "4th Suggestion."

 

[Eric in East County]

Local LEO do board Amtrak trains! A few years ago I booked a quick ride for fun and relaxation from FMG to EMY and back in a roomette. The return the following day. Well that apparently triggers certain computers like Amtrak, NCIS and DEA to that could be a drug/money mule type of itinerary. Well, shortly out of RNO on #5 a gentleman came up behind me as I was taking pics in the lounge car. There was another gentleman with him. Both dressed in t-shirts and shorts. The first guy bent over and quietly ask me if I was Karl which I of course said yes. He raised the bottom of his t-shirt to expose a Reno Police Department badge. I thought that I may have taken a picture or several maybe on the RNO platform of some criminal activity. He explained to me why he was on the train and that was he and his colleagues were part of the Reno PD Drug Interdiction Task Force. And that my itinerary had been flagged. Nicely ask if I would allow them to check my baggage and if could pat me down. I said absolutely and to follow me to the trans/dorm #24 at the front of the train. He and the other officer followed me to my room. They waited until we got there and did a normal frisk of me. Then ask if they could go through my luggage which was fine with me. Only had a small bag and camera bag. They checked it and said thank you. I said no thank you (I've worn "Blue Lives Matter" bracelet for several years) and that I sincerely appreciate what they do. I did ask him if they did this every day and how far do they ride? He said they go out to Truckee and then back on #6 maybe once or twice a week. I did notice that the other two officers did apparently pinch a couple of young men as they escorted them off the train at TRU. Guess is they maybe had some weed on their person. Some these days would be all up in arms for being "profiled" but I think it is a great tool for law enforcement! Gotta say this was one of the best and most memorable Amtrak excursions. Loved it.

You certainly did the right thing by cooperating fully with the two officers, who appeared to have conducted themselves in a professional manner.

Eric & Pat

 

[basketmaker]

You certainly did the right thing by cooperating fully with the two officers, who appeared to have conducted themselves in a professional manner.

Eric & Pat

Absolutely.

 

[Steve4031]

I did a similar trip but only got questioned. It was almost the exact experience that Basketmaker had. The officers were somewhat brusque with me. I remained calm because I didn’t do anything wrong. One of them asked if he had talked to me before. I told him no. It was a strange experience.

 

[MARC Rider]

You certainly did the right thing by cooperating fully with the two officers, who appeared to have conducted themselves in a professional manner.

Eric & Pat

It's not the officers, who, indeed may have been may have been conducting themselves professionally. The real problem is our political leadership and the judges who have interpreted the law to the point that this flimsy pretext is enough to justify police questioning and inspection of luggage of people with the implied threat of fairly serious practical, if not legal, consequences (getting removed from the train) if one doesn't comply. The risk of letting a few drug couriers through is simply not enough of an immediate threat to justify this.

As a citizen, I really don't care if drug couriers ride an Amtrak train, as long as they are behaving themselves. While it might be proper for the police to try to intercept them, they need to have more evidence than a "suspicious" ticket booking to justify questioning and inspecting the luggage of people who are not causing any trouble at that time. As I said, there was a reason why the Founders of our country included the Fourth Amendment into the Constitution. It's terrible that our leaders (and the citizenry) have tolerated what is essentially a backdoor repeal of this amendment.

 

[PVD]

The travesty that civil asset forfeiture has become is perhaps the most egregious part of this.

 

[Eric in East County]

It's not the officers, who, indeed may have been may have been conducting themselves professionally. The real problem is our political leadership and the judges who have interpreted the law to the point that this flimsy pretext is enough to justify police questioning and inspection of luggage of people with the implied threat of fairly serious practical, if not legal, consequences (getting removed from the train) if one doesn't comply. The risk of letting a few drug couriers through is simply not enough of an immediate threat to justify this.

As a citizen, I really don't care if drug couriers ride an Amtrak train, as long as they are behaving themselves. While it might be proper for the police to try to intercept them, they need to have more evidence than a "suspicious" ticket booking to justify questioning and inspecting the luggage of people who are not causing any trouble at that time. As I said, there was a reason why the Founders of our country included the Fourth Amendment into the Constitution. It's terrible that our leaders (and the citizenry) have tolerated what is essentially a backdoor repeal of this amendment.

Back in the mid to late 1960s when we were in college, a popular slogan was “Question Authority.” Even today, there are some who argue that Government policy that require all passengers to wear a mask while riding on an Amtrak train might also be a violation of their Constitutional rights.

During our recent long-distance train trip, we did the right thing by wearing our masks. Had we been approached by law enforcement agents who asked to inspect our luggage, we would also have complied without protest. We’ll leave it up to the legal scholars as to whether or not or our Constitutional rights were violated. We just wanted to ride the train.

 

[basketmaker]

It's not the officers, who, indeed may have been may have been conducting themselves professionally. The real problem is our political leadership and the judges who have interpreted the law to the point that this flimsy pretext is enough to justify police questioning and inspection of luggage of people with the implied threat of fairly serious practical, if not legal, consequences (getting removed from the train) if one doesn't comply. The risk of letting a few drug couriers through is simply not enough of an immediate threat to justify this.

As a citizen, I really don't care if drug couriers ride an Amtrak train, as long as they are behaving themselves. While it might be proper for the police to try to intercept them, they need to have more evidence than a "suspicious" ticket booking to justify questioning and inspecting the luggage of people who are not causing any trouble at that time. As I said, there was a reason why the Founders of our country included the Fourth Amendment into the Constitution. It's terrible that our leaders (and the citizenry) have tolerated what is essentially a backdoor repeal of this amendment.

In favor of it 100%. If they catch a single a single courier/criminal and he/she goes away for a long time it is worth it. Profiling and stop and frisk works!

 

[MARC Rider]

Back in the mid to late 1960s when we were in college, a popular slogan was “Question Authority.” Even today, there are some who argue that Government policy that require all passengers to wear a mask while riding on an Amtrak train might also be a violation of their Constitutional rights.

During our recent long-distance train trip, we did the right thing by wearing our masks. Had we been approached by law enforcement agents who asked to inspect our luggage, we would also have complied without protest. We’ll leave it up to the legal scholars as to whether or not or our Constitutional rights were violated. We just wanted to ride the train.

Being forced to wear a mask is a whole to different than being questioned by the police and having your personal belongings searched without good reason. Wearing a mask is an easy-to-do public health measure that has been shown by scientific observation to slow the spread of an epidemic disease, and not wearing one is pretty obvious and doesn't require a search of person or possessions. Further, I doubt that locking all up the small time drug couriers and even small-time traffickers does much to stem the drug abuse problem. In fact, it seems that even locking up the drug dealing "kingpins" doesn't do much to reduce drug abuse. All it does is cost the taxpayers lots of money to fund prisons that don't rehabilitate and the salaries of unneeded police officers who do their darndest to nail people for something so that their supervisors will think they're being productive. The fight against drug abuse should be led my medical workers and social workers, not police officers.

Oh yes, if I take a train trip and was asked by a cop if he could inspect my luggage, I'd let him, of course. I know a police state when I see it, and there's no point in trying to be some sort of libertarian "hero" over an issue like that.

 

[MARC Rider]

Back in the mid to late 1960s when we were in college, a popular slogan was “Question Authority.”

Yeah, I was around back then, too. "Question Authority" is not the same as "Reject all Authority," and it never was, even to the radical student activists.

 

[Dakota 400]

Had we been approached by law enforcement agents who asked to inspect our luggage, we would also have complied without protest.

My opinion: Many of the serious issues that have taken place between the police and citizens are due to the lack of respect that ought to be afforded to "authority figures" whomever they may be. If one is stopped by a policeman/woman and asked to do/produce whatever: do it! When one decides to "debate"the issue or refuse to comply with the lawful request of the officer, that's when problems can start that has led to the very sad and needless results that we have witnessed in recent years.

 

[hlcteacher]

no warrant? they are not touching me, mine, or my possessions..stop and frisk for no reason other than "they think"...nope, nope

 

[me_little_me]

no warrant? they are not touching me, mine, or my possessions..stop and frisk for no reason other than "they think"...nope, nope

You know they will retaliate against you by detaining you until they find a compliant judge to issue one. Easy for them since they know the compliant ones. Now, if they were held accountable, they would do less of that.

 

[zephyr17]

And detaining you means your train continues on without you.

I know the principled thing might be to stand on your rights. But for me, I'd rather remain onboard. So, yeah, I'd consent to search.