Do we really need HSR for LD?

[Exvalley]

Hopefully this will finally put an end to all the bellyaching about charge times. Instead of a $35,000 vehicle that takes an ungodly half hour to finish we'll finally have a more practical model that dual-charges in five minutes for $350,000.

Fortunately scientists and innovators don’t share your inherent pessimism.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/M...g-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

 

[joelkfla]

Fortunately scientists and innovators don’t share your inherent pessimism.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/M...g-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut

And Japan, China, and Germany lead on, while once again the USA gets left in the dust, worrying more about preserving obsolete jobs than about innovation and evolution.

 

[Exvalley]

And Japan, China, and Germany lead on, while once again the USA gets left in the dust, worrying more about preserving obsolete jobs than about innovation and evolution.

General Motors is very serious about EV technology, and Tesla too, but your point is well taken.

 

[Qapla]

Rivian is already only manufacturing EV's ... they are not waiting until some future date.

 

[jiml]

Ford is running numerous commercials here about their commitment to electric vehicles, many of which will be built in Canada. The more recent GM announcement is little more than a footnote by comparison. Toyota remains the major vendor of EV's and hybrids this side of the border.

Not sure what this has to do with HSR though.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Ford is running numerous commercials here about their commitment to electric vehicles, many of which will be built in Canada. The more recent GM announcement is little more than a footnote by comparison. Toyota remains the major vendor of EV's and hybrids this side of the border.

Not sure what this has to do with HSR though.

Hey, its AU! Were famous for thread drift!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hey, its AU! Were famous for thread drift!

Redacted

 

[Qapla]

Maybe, with all the new electronic gadgets they put on cars these days that the EV's will have ones that avoid trains and prevent them from entering RR crossings when a train is coming





Whew!! I managed to get this thread back on topic and still include the EV's

 

[Ziv]

And yet Tesla is selling millions of excellent BEVs while Japanese and German companies are selling mere thousands of fairly good BEVs. And China is building some excellent BEVs of late, but the best ones are Tesla’s.

And Japan, China, and Germany lead on, while once again the USA gets left in the dust, worrying more about preserving obsolete jobs than about innovation and evolution.

 

[toddinde]

I do not feel punishing coach passengers is the way to gain ridership. It doesn't really cost more to provide Wi-Fi to sleepers and coach as it would to provide it for sleepers only. Making coach passengers pay for Wi-Fi will not get them to start riding in a sleeper - it will just send them to some other type of transportation while leaving a bad taste in their mouths

Charge the sleepers and have free wi fi in coach. Seriously, free wi fi throughout the train. That would be a huge draw.

 

[jis]

Charge the sleepers and have free wi fi in coach. Seriously, free wi fi throughout the train. That would be a huge draw.

Providing reliable and relatively good performance WiFi on all LD routes and specially single train per day through the sticks routes which for considerable lengths are not within range of any cell towers, would be a considerable expense. See explanation in earlier posts in this thread.

 

[toddinde]

Providing reliable and relatively good performance WiFi on all LD routes and specially single train per day through the sticks routes which for considerable lengths are not within range of any cell towers, would be a considerable expense. See explanation in earlier posts in this thread.

Obviously, it’s within the technical limitations of what’s reasonably possible. I’m not suggesting that every inch of the line have hi speed wi fi regardless of cost. Greyhound does it. So do airlines. On neither is it perfect.

 

[Qapla]

Providing reliable and relatively good performance WiFi on all LD routes and specially single train per day through the sticks routes which for considerable lengths are not within range of any cell towers, would be a considerable expense. See explanation in earlier posts in this thread.

While I agree, it must be noted that, when WiFI first started on trains it was only available in "certain areas". Some said it was not possible on LD trains while they were not in the "corridors" ... It is available on the Silvers from Miami all the way to NY. That was not the case when it first became available. So, before we say "it can't be done" - give it time

 

[jis]

So, before we say "it can't be done" - give it time

You will note that I never ever said it can't be done. Heck, I used to be a telephony guy in my early career (Bell Labs). I would never say no to someone who is willing to pay for a fancy or even minimal service, specially back in those days when we had cost plus accounting. I just said that it might need some special setup in sparsely populated areas where wireless service providers do not have much incentive to invest in the necessary infrastructure.

This problem really is peculiar to the US because of the way in which responsibilities are distributed. In many other countries railroads have their own network based on GSM technology called GSM-R, and is compatible with wireless telephony GSM protocols, so a few channels can be allocated on their GSM-R network to carry WiFi related signal from the trains. And needless to say, since it is a railroad network, it exists along all rail routes.

Again, notwithstanding everything else, of course it can be done. The issue is how much is one willing to pay for it.

 

[John Santos]

You will note that I never ever said it can't be done. Heck, I used to be a telephony guy in my early career (Bell Labs). I would never say no to someone who is willing to pay for a fancy or even minimal service, specially back in those days when we had cost plus accounting. I just said that it might need some special setup in sparsely populated areas where wireless service providers do not have much incentive to invest in the necessary infrastructure.

This problem really is peculiar to the US because of the way in which responsibilities are distributed. In many other countries railroads have their own network based on GSM technology called GSM-R, and is compatible with wireless telephony GSM protocols, so a few channels can be allocated on their GSM-R network to carry WiFi related signal from the trains. And needless to say, since it is a railroad network, it exists along all rail routes.

Again, notwithstanding everything else, of course it can be done. The issue is how much is one willing to pay for it.

Who says it has to be done over cell service?

 

[jis]

Who says it has to be done over cell service?

No one. But for now that is how it is done on all routes.

I have explained earlier in the thread how it can be done using other services. But for now that is not the case.

 

[Qapla]

How about a long LAN cable that is swapped out at each stop so the train going the other way can use the same LAN cable on the return trip

 

[jis]

How about a long LAN cable that is swapped out at each stop so the train going the other way can use the same LAN cable on the return trip

One way to avoid said LAN cable having to unfurl as the train runs along is to lay a leaky coax cable along the track which essentially acts as a continuous antenna. This is one of the ways of providing cell service and WiFi service inside tunnels.

 

[me_little_me]

Charge the sleepers and have free wi fi in coach. Seriously, free wi fi throughout the train. That would be a huge draw.

Do what Marriott and others do - everyone who has a (free) membership (read "travels in coach") gets free wi-fi that does not do "high speed" but can pay for the high speed. The premium members (read "sleeper passengers, business class passengers") get high speed free.

 

[MARC Rider]

I don't follow your logic.

They don't say they'll be producing less cars, just changing the fuel source. If anything, I think that will increase the attractiveness of owning a car, as operating costs will be lower, and the downside of environmental impact will be reduced.

There surely are other reasons for reducing private car usage, but I don't see switching from fossil fuel to electric as a driver.

Highway construction is funded by the tax on gasoline. If less gasoline is sold, there's less funding available to build highways. Or they'll have to come up with some other funding mechanism.

 

[me_little_me]

Highway construction is funded by the tax on gasoline. If less gasoline is sold, there's less funding available to build highways. Or they'll have to come up with some other funding mechanism.

Like NC. They want to tax hybrids because they don't use enough gas so supposedly don't pay enough taxes. The real shaft is that it would be a fixed amount, not based upon mileage so those who don't drive a lot get ripped off.

That's not going to help this country become green.

Ripoff States

 

[Qapla]

They could always require odometer readings when you renew your tag - and charge a renewal fee based on mileage driven ... of course, it would be nice if they also allowed discounts against that mileage for the number of miles ridden on LD trains* (or all trains)




*Needed to pull this thread back on topic

 

[railiner]

This problem really is peculiar to the US because of the way in which responsibilities are distributed. In many other countries railroads have their own network based on GSM technology called GSM-R, and is compatible with wireless telephony GSM protocols, so a few channels can be allocated on their GSM-R network to carry WiFi related signal from the trains. And needless to say, since it is a railroad network, it exists along all rail routes.

Didn't Amtrak have an early example of something similar in the NEC? IIRC, they allowed some com company to lay their fiber-optics line along the NEC, in exchange for Amtrak being allocated a portion of its service...

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Like NC. They want to tax hybrids because they don't use enough gas so supposedly don't pay enough taxes. The real shaft is that it would be a fixed amount, not based upon mileage so those who don't drive a lot get ripped off. That's not going to help this country become green.

The vast majority of physical damage done to asphalt is caused by commercial vehicles. You can see it with your own eyes if you pay attention to the pavement near commercial plants and along freight corridors. A sea of hybrid sedans driving in circles for the life of the vehicle wouldn't be able to match the damage of a single high gross weight truck.

 

[MARC Rider]

The vast majority of physical damage done to asphalt is caused by commercial vehicles. You can see it with your own eyes if you pay attention to the pavement near commercial plants and along freight corridors. A sea of hybrid sedans driving in circles for the life of the vehicle wouldn't be able to match the damage of a single high gross weight truck.

I guess the trucking lobby is more effective at persuading our elected leaders than is the car-drivers' lobby (whatever that is). Which is weird, because there are far more of us who own cars and drive them on the public highways.