Downtown San Francisco to downtown Los Angeles?

[homersimpson101]

Do you think Amtrak should make a new line between downtown San Francisco (Caltrain terminal) to Los Angeles downtown station?

Imagine the competition:

1) High speed rail between SF and LA (obviously more than 20 years from now)

2) Dreamstar overnight luxury train service between SF and LA

3) New Amtrak line between only SF and LA (using amfleet or viewliner cars)

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Yes, if it can be done piggybacking on Caltrain. but it's not the highest priority to me.

 

[GDRRiley]

No they don't have a yard or crew base in SF so the crew would have to come from Oakland or San Jose.
Caltrain doesn't need a handful of intercity trains running express in its tightly timed dance especially if they get back to the 6TPH peak as originally proposed

Its also not Amtraks choice, it is entirely upto the state given the distance and so far the state and local government has show interest in a Oakland to SLO train to start in the next 3-4 years. Likely with horizons and or comets given thats whats free.

 

[Neil Rubin]

Do you think Amtrak should make a new line between downtown San Francisco (Caltrain terminal) to Los Angeles downtown station?

Imagine the competition:

1) High speed rail between SF and LA (obviously more than 20 years from now)

2) Dreamstar overnight luxury train service between SF and LA

3) New Amtrak line between only SF and LA (using amfleet or viewliner cars)

A new Amtrak line on this route would need to be state-supported (by law), so you would really be talking about a new California line that likely (but not necessarily) would be operated by Amtrak. There have been various proposals for such a train, most often referred to as the “Coast Daylight,” for 20-30 years now. Establishing some sort of rail service that fills the current gap between Salinas and San Luis Obispo with a Coast Daylight or something similar is more or less the purpose of the Coast Rail Coordinating Council. https://www.slocog.org/programs/public-transportation/rail/coast-rail-coordinating-council-crcc

I think the most likely scenario is that either a Pacific Surfliner train gets extended north to San Jose or (more likely) a Capitol Corridor train gets extended south to San Luis Obispo, with service between San Jose and San Francisco left to Caltrain and BART. Either scenario would probably involve new or different rolling stock than these services currently use, because they barely have the rolling stock to run their existing trains. But running a diesel passenger train, with an unpredictable schedule (thanks to the delays that routinely happen on the Coast Line), onto the electrified, frequent-service Caltrain (and in the future HSR) tracks is operationally difficult. And the value of a daytime single-seat 11-hour L.A. to S.F. train over a service that requires a connection or two isn’t that clear. Most of the market for this train would be people going to or from intermediate stops. That’s why it’s the counties in the middle of the route that are pushing for this new service, not folks in S.F. or L.A.

I would also note that the market for transportation (as opposed to novelty trips) between S.F. and L.A. is already served by the Amtrak San Joaquins, though you have to take buses part of the way. It’s only 10 hours and runs five round trips per day, but is both less comfortable and less scenic than a Coast Daylight service would be. If you are looking for comfort and scenery, the Coast Starlight already gets you from L.A. to S.F. in 13 hours, with only a brief bus or BART ride required. Once the CA HSR initial operation segment is running and Valley Rail improvements are in place, the HSR/diesel/bus trip from S.F. to L.A. will be more like 8 hours and include the novelty of riding the fastest HSR line in North America, making the 11-hour busless daytime trip along the coast even less appealing.

 

[Literalman]

I hope that California would sponsor a Los Angeles–San Francisco train. San Francisco has to be a bigger destination than Oakland for travelers from the LA area.

 

[GDRRiley]

I hope that California would sponsor a Los Angeles–San Francisco train. San Francisco has to be a bigger destination than Oakland for travelers from the LA area.

there are already transfer options and they are going going to get better with time. Getting off in San Jose an hour later you could be SF with a baby bullet on caltrain.

 

[west point]

"IF" equipment is ever available for an overnight LAX - SJC - San Francisco train. Leave a Sacramento section at SJC for a Capitol train to grab. Reverse procedure going other way. That way just the needed diesels for LAX <> SFO. Or keep a couple old AEM-7s to cover SJC <> SFO if the train operators want to keep the electrification.

2nd choice make it a run thru train LAX - SJC - SAC train with SFO equipment on rear. Drop SFO cars at SJC attach motor to front, brake test and go. At SFO leave consist same with the rear car from LAX a Cab Control car. Leave SFO and connect to rear of train from SAC, disconnect motor brake test and go. With Cab Control on rear from LAX can be used if ever necessary to reverse train before arriving SJC.
This becomes more involved if the SJC - SAC leg requires more capacity than what come or goes to LAX.

 

[Asher]

I hope that California would sponsor a Los Angeles–San Francisco train. San Francisco has to be a bigger destination than Oakland for travelers from the LA area.

So you are suggesting a separate train to San Francisco other than going up the other side of the bay like now.

 

[Cal]

"IF" equipment is ever available for an overnight LAX - SJC - San Francisco train. Leave a Sacramento section at SJC for a Capitol train to grab. Reverse procedure going other way. That way just the needed diesels for LAX <> SFO. Or keep a couple old AEM-7s to cover SJC <> SFO if the train operators want to keep the electrification.

2nd choice make it a run thru train LAX - SJC - SAC train with SFO equipment on rear. Drop SFO cars at SJC attach motor to front, brake test and go. At SFO leave consist same with the rear car from LAX a Cab Control car. Leave SFO and connect to rear of train from SAC, disconnect motor brake test and go. With Cab Control on rear from LAX can be used if ever necessary to reverse train before arriving SJC.
This becomes more involved if the SJC - SAC leg requires more capacity than what come or goes to LAX.

If they could use the california bilevels, the SF section could have a cab car at the front, so they wouldn’t even need to connect an engine.

 

[Neil Rubin]

"IF" equipment is ever available for an overnight LAX - SJC - San Francisco train. Leave a Sacramento section at SJC for a Capitol train to grab. Reverse procedure going other way. That way just the needed diesels for LAX <> SFO. Or keep a couple old AEM-7s to cover SJC <> SFO if the train operators want to keep the electrification.

2nd choice make it a run thru train LAX - SJC - SAC train with SFO equipment on rear. Drop SFO cars at SJC attach motor to front, brake test and go. At SFO leave consist same with the rear car from LAX a Cab Control car. Leave SFO and connect to rear of train from SAC, disconnect motor brake test and go. With Cab Control on rear from LAX can be used if ever necessary to reverse train before arriving SJC.
This becomes more involved if the SJC - SAC leg requires more capacity than what come or goes to LAX.

I'm all for more trains, but making the case for an overnight train between L.A. and S.F. is hard enough. Demand for what would be a 14-hour-plus overnight train ride to or from Sacramento has to be vanishingly small. If there is a market for overnight L.A. to S.F., it is tourists and some business people. Both are much more plentiful coming and going to S.F. than Sacramento. And neither is going to find arriving at Sacramento close to noon after an all-night train ride super appealing, when they could have just slept in a bed and taken a morning flight instead. Plus, the take-your-time on a comfortable train ride between L.A. and Sacramento market is already well-served by the Coast Starlight, just at a different time of day. Worse, running cars on a Capitol train will either routinely mess up the Capitol train's schedule or require a long layover northbound for these cars at San Jose. And Diridon has more pressing uses for its tracks and platforms than laying over cars and building up train consists.

Doing a timed connection with cross-platform boarding would be at least as feasible and I would think almost as appealing to whatever market exists. Simple, reliable operations, with good connections between services is the way to make passenger rail work.